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South Africa Happy To Bid For 2024 Summer Games

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It's funny, everybody likes the idea of moving the games around to new locations... until their "pet" city/hometown ends up bidding against a new frontier. Then (assuming they're banking their hopes of technical plan), they start yelling "unfair" and that the games should only be awarded to the ones who score the highest technical marks. Of course, they'd then be the first ones to complain if the games were only rotated between technically excellent cities in North America and Western Europe and everybody else was shut out.

Yeah, this is a pretty accurate assessment of the goings on in these forums a lot of the times. The hardest. & extremely partial, critics of the (potentially) competing/compelling bids are mainly from the ones who support cities/bids who's 'compelling' arguments don't stack up to the real compelling cities/countries, etc.

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Exactly! The thing is, of course, it's not like every bidding cycle is a level playing field. In every round, there's one who's chances are better than the others for emotional or rotational or whatever reasons, and the rest will always have to "work harder". And sometimes it "working harder" pays off. I remember when I first started posting here, and the arguments I'd have with various members claiming there was no point talking about the 2012 race - there was no way Paris could lose. It's funny, everybody likes the idea of moving the games around to new locations... until their "pet" city/hometown ends up bidding against a new frontier. Then (assuming they're banking their hopes of technical plan), they start yelling "unfair" and that the games should only be awarded to the ones who score the highest technical marks. Of course, they'd then be the first ones to complain if the games were only rotated between technically excellent cities in North America and Western Europe and everybody else was shut out.

Seems to be happening almost every bid race now.

London over Paris

Rio over tokyo, Madrid, Chicago, Doha

Istanbul over Tokyo (assuming)

and then Durban over most cities.

I understand people really want an Africa games. Just annoyed at how the talk among the IOC president candidates is about South Africa and how Bach wants an African games but we dont seem to hear as much from the other cities. This race just sounds like it could be 2008 and 2016 all over again. No point in trying cause the new frontier will win. If I was someone organizing a Toronto, Rome, usa, paris bid i wouldnt bother cause everyone's talking about africa

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Seems to be happening almost every bid race now.

London over Paris

Rio over tokyo, Madrid, Chicago, Doha

Istanbul over Tokyo (assuming)

and then Durban over most cities.

I understand people really want an Africa games. Just annoyed at how the talk among the IOC president candidates is about South Africa and how Bach wants an African games but we dont seem to hear as much from the other cities. This race just sounds like it could be 2008 and 2016 all over again. No point in trying cause the new frontier will win. If I was someone organizing a Toronto, Rome, usa, paris bid i wouldnt bother cause everyone's talking about africa

Well, there's ALWAYS handicapping in any race...from election races to actual horse races. Why should u be annoyed? I mean, anybody who knows this bidding business knows that Africa is the last unticked box on the list. I mean, how much plainer and inevitable can the whole picture be?? And if one thinks that it will be a tight race with whomever else shows up, then they are totally clueless, naive and a newcomer to this game.

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Well, there's ALWAYS handicapping in any race...from election races to actual horse races. Why should u be annoyed? I mean, anybody who knows this bidding business knows that Africa is the last unticked box on the list. I mean, how much plainer and inevitable can the whole picture be?? And if one thinks that it will be a tight race with whomever else shows up, then they are totally clueless, naive and a newcomer to this game.

So no point in anyone bidding because Africa has it in the bag?

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Geez! No one is saying that! What's really "annoying" are the people that just don't get it, no matter how many fricken times its tried to be explained.

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Geez! No one is saying that! What's really "annoying" are the people that just don't get it, no matter how many fricken times its tried to be explained.

"And if one thinks that it will be a tight race with whomever else shows up, then they are totally clueless, naive and a newcomer to this game."

Sounds to me a hell of a lot like Baron thinks it won't be a tight race.

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So no point in anyone bidding because Africa has it in the bag?

Who knows what will happen? Days before the deadline for the 2020 candidates, most people thought Rome or Durban would be the favourites. Look where they are now!

"And if one thinks that it will be a tight race with whomever else shows up, then they are totally clueless, naive and a newcomer to this game."

Sounds to me a hell of a lot like Baron thinks it won't be a tight race.

And that's baron's opinion. He's more gung-ho than most here about its chances. Many of us wouldn't say it's sealed yet. Anything can happen in a race. And that's part of the fun of observing these bid races - to see if and how the underdog contenders can pull it off in the end.

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"And if one thinks that it will be a tight race with whomever else shows up, then they are totally clueless, naive and a newcomer to this game."

Sounds to me a hell of a lot like Baron thinks it won't be a tight race.

So how's that any different than some indivuals here already declaring that "2024 is going to Toronto" or Paris. Or how some are already saying "2022 is Munich's to lose", when they still gotta have a referendum to see if they're even gonna bid. Just bcuz a very few minority make such statements, doesn't mean that's the general consensus around here.

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So how's that any different than some indivuals here already declaring that "2024 is going to Toronto" or Paris. Or how some are already saying "2022 is Munich's to lose", when they still gotta have a referendum to see if they're even gonna bid. Just bcuz a very few minority make such statements, doesn't mean that's the general consensus around here.

Ok well all i'm saying is there was a thread where Ser Miang Ng (potential IOC president) "wants games in Africa" and then Bach (also a potential IOC president) mentions "I think a feasible bid from Africa... would be very, very much welcome"

Yet there seems to be nothing about these president candidates with other cities. Like I said before if I was a city interested in bidding for the games and saw that these two potential leaders of the IOC are already excited for an African games I wouldn't waste my money on 2024 bid. I mean yeah they haven't bid yet and only said " I think South Africa will be very happy to host the Olympics" but if I was them i'd be feeling pretty darn good.

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Well, your second to last post was criticizing Baron for his comment. As far as the presendential candidates go, though, all they're saying is that they'd 'welcome' a feasible bid from Africa. Why should that be 'bothersome or annoying'.

On the contrary, it seems to illustrate the opposite, IMO. Since the key word there is "feasible" bid. In saying that if South Africa (or anyone else on the continent, for that matter) can't come up with one, then please don't waste your time & money in doing so, since Bach is also talking about bid process reform, which ATM can be very pricey.

It also seems that perhaps some of the candidates want to reach out as well. Since many seem to have the view that Africa a lot of the time is the forgotten continent. The other continents don't really need anymore representation since they already have it in spades, especially Europe.

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Seems to be happening almost every bid race now.

London over Paris

Rio over tokyo, Madrid, Chicago, Doha

Istanbul over Tokyo (assuming)

and then Durban over most cities.

I understand people really want an Africa games. Just annoyed at how the talk among the IOC president candidates is about South Africa and how Bach wants an African games but we dont seem to hear as much from the other cities. This race just sounds like it could be 2008 and 2016 all over again. No point in trying cause the new frontier will win. If I was someone organizing a Toronto, Rome, usa, paris bid i wouldnt bother cause everyone's talking about africa

I agree with you.

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Well, your second to last post was criticizing Baron for his comment. As far as the presendential candidates go, though, all they're saying is that they'd 'welcome' a feasible bid from Africa. Why should that be 'bothersome or annoying'.

On the contrary, it seems to illustrate the opposite, IMO. Since the key word there is "feasible" bid. In saying that if South Africa (or anyone else on the continent, for that matter) can't come up with one, then please don't waste your time & money in doing so, since Bach is also talking about bid process reform, which ATM can be very pricey.

It also seems that perhaps some of the candidates want to reach out as well. Since many seem to have the view that Africa a lot of the time is the forgotten continent. The other continents don't really need anymore representation since they already have it in spades, especially Europe.

You've got to read between the lines. Bach is talking about relaxing bid requirements to allow for the inclusion of more cultural diversity. Which culture do you think he most wants to include?

They are politicians so they can't say, "we're going to Africa. Period." The most they can say is that they would be excited by a feasible African bid and they're willing to negotiate the definition of "feasible." That's essentially what Bach just said. Nobody is breathing a word about any other continent.

I don't doubt there are members with reservations about Africa who need more convincing, but I think it's clear that a lot of very heavy hitters are firmly in Africa's corner.

For that reason, I'm with Lord David. If you aren't African, don't waste your money on a 2024 bid.

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For that reason, I'm with Lord David. If you aren't African, don't waste your money on a 2024 bid.

Well, it's always been bid at your risk...and with bids costing on the average of $50 million, then maybe that's the route to go. Plus, they should really let the IOC'ers visit the actual city (which they already all did for Durban anyway). And when the IOC'ers visit, it should be at IOC expense.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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Oops. I meant Darcy. Sorry, Darcy.

I tell you this could make make Gamesbids flat out boring for years.

Munich 2022

Durban 2024

Neither race looks very contentious at this point.

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They are politicians so they can't say, "we're going to Africa. Period." The most they can say is that they would be excited by a feasible African bid and they're willing to negotiate the definition of "feasible." That's essentially what Bach just said. Nobody is breathing a word about any other continent.

Oh, I agree. But are little Aussie friend over there is having a bit of a conniption fit, so I was trying to give a bit of a balanced view.

Which this pretty much brings it to what I've said before, that when/if the IOC is finally ready to make the venture to Africa, they're gonna have to realize that they're gonna have to make some concessions, since they can't expect a Beijing & a Sochi-like extravanganza from the South Africans, & Bach seems to think that by starting to do that is by reforming the bid process, which right now, it can be ridiculously expensive just to bid in most cases.

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Seems to be happening almost every bid race now.

London over Paris

Rio over tokyo, Madrid, Chicago, Doha

Istanbul over Tokyo (assuming)

and then Durban over most cities.

I understand people really want an Africa games. Just annoyed at how the talk among the IOC president candidates is about South Africa and how Bach wants an African games but we dont seem to hear as much from the other cities. This race just sounds like it could be 2008 and 2016 all over again. No point in trying cause the new frontier will win. If I was someone organizing a Toronto, Rome, usa, paris bid i wouldnt bother cause everyone's talking about africa

How was London over Paris "favoring" a new frontier?! :blink:

And quite frankly, Darcy. It's the IOC's party afterall, so they have the final word as to where they wanna put on their big show. No different than when people plan their weddings, vacations, birthday parties, etc, they pick out their preferred venues & locations where they want it to be at. So why should the IOC be any different in that aspect. And if you find that "annoying", well, all I can say then is tough cookies.

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I'm all for lowering the cost of bidding, but I still think it's essential that the bidders do considerable homework and present highly-detailed, workable technical plans. General ideas and vague indications open the door to all kinds of problems.

Of course the plans will change over seven years. Plans change for everything. That doesn't mean you stop planning. Without detailed technical bids, the IOC could find themselves in serious trouble.

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How was London over Paris "favoring" a new frontier?! :blink: And quite frankly, Darcy. It's the IOC's party afterall, so they have the final word as to where they wanna put on their big show. No different than when people plan their weddings, vacations, birthday parties, etc, they pick out their preferred venues & locations where they want it to be at. So why should the IOC be any different in that aspect. And if you find that "annoying", well, all I can say then is tough cookies.

I meant the winner being the lower evaluated city.

So you're saying there's no point in caring? So these forums are pointless? It's about discussing future plans of course IOC has the final and only say and we influence nothing but we can't care? Otherwise this forum may as we **** down

Shut down**

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Basically Darcy, someone months ago already summarised the Africa sentiment well - you can't exactly imagine any IOC member outright stating that they'd like to bring the Olympics "finally to Toronto." The world simply wouldn't care. However, the world has deep emotional invested interest in the continent, for reasons that speak for themselves, and offers a great deal to the Olympic movement, its extremely iconic from a marketing perspective, and it is relatively CAPABLE. South Africa proved its worth and organisational skills in 2010. We all know a city like Durban would have to undergo a certain degree of transformation, but within reason, this is often the making of the best and great Olympics we know - Barcelona.

Edited by runningrings

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Olympic Fan Darcy, on 09 Jun 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I meant the winner being the lower evaluated city.

So you're saying there's no point in caring? So these forums are pointless? It's about discussing future plans of course IOC has the final and only say and we influence nothing but we can't care? Otherwise this forum may as we **** down

Shut down**

It didn't stop London from being a good games, though. And I'm sure Paris would have staged a great games too, but I don't see how they would have been vastly better by a huge margin just because their technical scores were a bit better.

It's not a point of not caring. Or that it pointless discussing races just because there's an early favourite.

If South Africa/Durban bid (and that's not certain, despite all the talk. Most people, the IOC included, expected them to bid for certain for 2020 and that just fell into vapour at the end), and if they passed the technical vetting and made the short list (and again, not all the South Africa fans here are taking that for granted either), they'd probably go into the 2024 race in a similar position that Beijing did in the 2008 race - highly expected to win in most quarters (except supporters of the cities biding against it).

Now, I wasn't here on the board when it first started as a forum to follow Toronto's 2008. But I can guess (and I'd like if any of the real old GBids timers can confirm or clarify), that it had a lot of lively discussion, debates and arguments, with a lot of posters stating that Beijing "had it in the bag" for political and emotional reasons, and a lot of people who didn't like that idea or preferred other bidders, pointing out the advantages and chances of their personal favourites - things like being in a democratic, open nation, multicultural cities, excellent facilities and technical capabilities. And if Beijing had stumbled someway - made a campaign blunder or real world politics intervened - Toronto might well have won through. In the end, despite the nature of the race, it engendered a lot of discussion - enough to launch this board as a good Olympics discussion forum. And the discussion here probably reflected the types of wider discussions and thoughts that were going through the minds of people around the world interested in the process - the sports events industry and IOC included.

Now, going back to the 2008 race - if there's one high profile city I'd guess a lot of people didn't fancy their chances, it would have been Paris. At any other time, Paris would be a formidable bidder, and they could have won through if things had gone wrong with the Beijing and Toronto bids - but otherwise I'd guess most people would have assumed the IOC were unlikely to award a second games in a row to Europe after Athens 2004. I'd think, some people would have wondered if their 2008 bid was more to lay the foundations and contacts and experience for a strong 2012 bid. And if that was the case, it worked... to a point. At least in installing it as the early frontrunner. When I came to the board as the 2012 race hotted up, Paris was seen in many quarters as the unbeatable favourite. And London actually didn't look, at least in the early stages, as a hot contender - especially with concerns over things like having to give hosting the 2005 IAAF world championships. I mentioned earlier, most of he heated discussions I got into was with some posters shooting down any comments on the rival bids to Paris with posts like "Why bother? - Paris is going to win anyway. There's nothing to discuss." Now one of the really good things of watching that bid race (or any bid race) is how the various competitors strategise and campaign and put their case. The 2012 wasn't boring because Paris was an almost unbackable favourite - it was exciting because at the end London was a clever campaigner who managed to counter that.

A lot of things can happen in the next four years between now and when the 2024 host is poised to be announced. Hell, Madrid might win 2020, South Africa might get cold feet again, or get into strife, or not pass technical muster, and it might become a battle between Toronto and a US city, or Dubai or Istanbul might ride the sentiment to a different new frontier. But in the light of recent statements by IOC presidential candidates and the general sentiment that has built up in lots of discussions here and in the outside world for years, at this stage it's just a reasonable position to say that as of this point in time, South Africa would be a probable front-runner in early predictions for 2024. Nothing more.

I'm not sure why exactly this is upsetting to you. Is it because you think the race would be boring? Or if you prefer another city to win? Or you really don't like emotion to come into a bid decision, and would rather it be just technical (actually, on that last point, I'd say if it all came down to technical scores, there'd be nothing to discuss or for the IOC to vote on - the games would just be given to whoever topped a technical committee report)? But that's all fuel for lots of discussion. The whole technical merit versus subjective factors divide, for example, is always worth debating, and is possibly at the heart of nearly all the big debates we have here on potential host cities and their chances.

Whether we influence the IOC or not (apparently some members look in here, but I doubt if we could actually sway things), what I think the discussions here do is, as I said above, reflect the types of debates that go in the wider world, and by the individual IOC members as they ponder who they want to vote for. There's going to be a lot of that whoever enters 2024. If Durban enter, they may well start favourite, but I expect we're going to get used to thrashing out things like: technical merit versus other bids; will the IOC want to go so quickly to another new frontier; will the South African applicant city pass the technical threshhold or not; why don't they go with the prettier Cape Town instead of Durban; are they campaigning effectively; is it socially responsible for a country with problems like South Africa to invest in a circus rather than bread; or even, do they need to lose a bid before they can win one ( :rolleyes: ). And that's the things the IOC members will also be wrestling with. And mark my words, fans of whoever enter against South Africa will also be putting the merits of their pick forward - I sure hope Toronto enters just for the sake of keeping up the big Canadian contribution to this board!

And don't worry if the Baron shouts you down. That's what he does. He always states his case forcefully, whether it's a strong case or not. He likes it when you return his power serves. ;)

Edited by Sir Rols

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Basically Darcy, someone months ago already summarised the Africa sentiment well - you can't exactly imagine any IOC member outright stating that they'd like to bring the Olympics "finally to Toronto." The world simply wouldn't care. However, the world has deep emotional invested interest in the continent, for reasons that speak for themselves, and offers a great deal to the Olympic movement, its extremely iconic from a marketing perspective, and it is relatively CAPABLE. South Africa proved its worth and organisational skills in 2010. We all know a city like Durban would have to undergo a certain degree of transformation, but within reason, this is often the making of the best and great Olympics we know - Barcelona.

All i'm saying is if I was a city looking to bid for 2024 I wouldn't go for it. Yes it's early days and bidding doesn't start for a while. But if Durban bids i'd say there really is no point for cities like doha, madrid, tokyo. Paris might get lucky and just beat them.

All the points you made were valid, extremely valid. But the fact that two potential presidents have already commented on an African games would put me off a future bid seeing as they already are hoping for an African bid and games.

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I'm not sure why exactly this is upsetting to you. Is it because you think the race would be boring? Or if you prefer another city to win? Or you really don't like emotion to come into a bid decision, and would rather it be just technical (actually, on that last point, I'd say if it all came down to technical scores, there'd be nothing to discuss or for the IOC to vote on - the games would just be given to whoever topped a technical committee report)? But that's all fuel for lots of discussion. The whole technical merit versus subjective factors divide, for example, is always worth debating, and is possibly at the heart of nearly all the big debates we have here on potential host cities and their chances.

Whether we influence the IOC or not (apparently some members look in here, but I doubt if we could actually sway things), what I think the discussions here do is, as I said above, reflect the types of debates that go in the wider world, and by the individual IOC members as they ponder who they want to vote for. There's going to be a lot of that whoever enters 2024. If Durban enter, they may well start favourite, but I expect we're going to get used to thrashing out things like: technical merit versus other bids; will the IOC want to go so quickly to another new frontier; will the South African applicant city pass the technical threshhold or not; why don't they go with the prettier Cape Town instead of Durban; are they campaigning effectively; is it socially responsible for a country with problems like South Africa to invest in a circus rather than bread; or even, do they need to lose a bid before they can win one ( :rolleyes: ). And that's the things the IOC members will also be wrestling with. And mark my words, fans of whoever enter against South Africa will also be putting the merits of their pick forward - I sure hope Toronto enters just for the sake of keeping up the big Canadian contribution to this board!

And don't worry if the Baron shouts you down. That's what he does. He always states his case forcefully, whether it's a strong case or not. He likes it when you return his power serves. ;)

Surprisingly, i'm not actually upset or anything. I'm just saying to me it looks like 2008. Then a variety of different people have disagreed with me and i've responded with them hence a few of these pages being between me, FYI, you etc. I'm not saying we should all leave since we have no influence I love talking about the olympics. I agree much can change between now and 2017 and 2024 for that matter but all I was saying was Durban seems to be an extreme favourite right now and if I was any city considering a bid (besides Paris and maybe a USA bid) I would probably wait til 2028 unless they seriously think they have a shot

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Now, I wasn't here on the board when it first started as a forum to follow Toronto's 2008. But I can guess (and I'd like if any of the real old GBids timers can confirm or clarify), that it had a lot of lively discussion, debates and arguments, with a lot of posters stating that Beijing "had it in the bag" for political and emotional reasons, and a lot of people who didn't like that idea or preferred other bidders, pointing out the advantages and chances of their personal favourites - things like being in a democratic, open nation, multicultural cities, excellent facilities and technical capabilities.

Yeah, it got very intense on here back then at times. There were a couple of Chinese Americans on here that were debating on a regular basis. And of course the side arguments/debates with the French & a couple of Turks back then, too. Thinking they 'had it in the bag'. And Osaka was mostly forgotten about, much like the news media is doing with Madrid now.. And most of the Canadians that were on here back then, aren't any of the ones now. The only one that I could think of off the top of my head that's still here now is Guardian, from when the 2008 race was going on.

But there were a couple of Canadians back then that got extremely b!tchy the moment that anyone would mention that Beijing was the bid to beat. Citing that Toronto was going to win simply bcuz they had the "superior" technical bid. Needless to say, those particular ones disappeared soon after the 2008 vote. There were, though, a couple of very nice ones. One in particular could've easily been your Canadian counterpart, lol. Just very insightful & objective. I can't think of what his screenname, was at the moment. One things for sure though, if there is a Canadian & U.S. 2024 bids, these boards will light up even moreso than what the 2008 race was.

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Basically Darcy, someone months ago already summarised the Africa sentiment well - you can't exactly imagine any IOC member outright stating that they'd like to bring the Olympics "finally to Toronto." The world simply wouldn't care. However, the world has deep emotional invested interest in the continent, for reasons that speak for themselves, and offers a great deal to the Olympic movement, its extremely iconic from a marketing perspective, and it is relatively CAPABLE. South Africa proved its worth and organisational skills in 2010. We all know a city like Durban would have to undergo a certain degree of transformation, but within reason, this is often the making of the best and great Olympics we know - Barcelona.

100% agree. The excellent results after the World Cup 2010 -Even with low points- make a good case for South Africa spot. Also, choosing a city like Durban -In the middle of the Zulu culture and close to the "African roofs"- will be a compeling logo. As many people said before, the biggest challenge for South Africa is winning in the shortlist, but after that, it would be the favorite of the race. Only a city like Paris could fight for it, but again, with 2020 in decision -Between Tokyo and Istanbul-, and 2024 as a proper African year, maybe 2028 could make even a proper narrative for the french side.

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So you're saying there's no point in caring? So these forums are pointless? It's about discussing future plans of course IOC has the final and only say and we influence nothing but we can't care? Otherwise this forum may as we **** down

Shut down**

Who says that it's our job to care. Don't you think that the IOC is a big boy now & would know better than anyone else what's good for them. Does anyone try to dictate to you what's good in your life, & do you listen to them? If you think that the IOC is just making mistakes beyoned mistakes, then perhaps you should try & join them so you can "show them the light". Seriously, Darcy. You have such cynicism & are so patronizing towards an organization that's been doing this for almost 120 years. They've done pretty well all that time without your "wisdom".

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