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baron-pierreIV

Uh-oh. Riots in Istanbul not good...

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It really doesn't seem like the country is really stable to have a games

Yes Beijing got the games but IOC really wanted to tick China off there to go list. This doesn't look good.

I agree it doesn't 'look' good - but what something 'seems' like to you a world away isn't exactly a reflection of the reality at play. There are big protests in Istanbul right now, and from what we see today it is deescalating. To say that it is not "stable' enough to host the Olympics 7 years from now is a big, overreactionary call.

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Frankly, I just think it's far too early to make any assessment as to how it may affect the bid. The whole issue may just blow over and be forgotten in a few days or weeks, or it may blow up, drag on, escalate and do the bid harm.

The bid committee are probably doing the right thing to say they're just going to keep on going and concentrate on their task ahead. I think the only concrete thing we could assume is that the bid team would probably happier if these riots had never happened, and are crossing their fingers they don't drag on and escalate.

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While injuries are reported to be in the thousands, there have been no deaths confirmed. An interesting article in today's Australian newspaper made an interesting note that while significant, this is not anything near the Arab Spring or even whats happening monthly in Athens, and more comparable in scale and sentiment to recent protests seen in Paris. There's also been the distinction between riot and protest- this is technically the latter.

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Erdogan says protests 'are not Turkish Spring' -BBC

Analysis: Paul Mason - Economics editor, Newsnight, Istanbul BBC

I have covered Syntagma in Athens, the Occupy protests and reported from Tahrir Square in Cairo. This is different to all of them.

-First, it is massive: the sheer numbers dwarf any single episode of civil unrest in Greece.

-Second, the breadth of social support - within the urban enclave of Istanbul - is bigger than Greece and closer to Egypt. "Everyone is here - except the AK Party" - says one young woman. People nod. In Greece, the urban middle class was split; here the secular middle class is out in force, united across political divisions, to say nothing of football hatreds.

Is this the Turkish Tahrir? Not unless the workers join in: Turkey has a large labour movement, and a big urban poor, working population, and Monday is a work day, so we will see. It is certainly already something more than the Turkish version of Occupy.

Turkey Protests LIVE BLOG - Aljazeera

Turkey's Public Workers Unions Confederation (KESK) will hold a “warning strike” on Tuesday and Wednesday to protest against the crackdown on protests over the last four days.

All union members will wear black ribbons and clothes on Tuesday morning. The strike will begin at 09:00 GMT following press statements due to be released around Turkey.

Edited by paul
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If they went to China and Russia, that won't affect them.

But if they could make Erdogan go, that would make my day.

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According to news here, many of the widely circulating images of the riots in Istanbul on social media are fake - or from Syria (including many of the images depicting more gross forms of violence). While the protests are huge in scale, many first hand reports from 'Day 1' in social media are claiming that its not as intense as initially reported - and many of the authentic images are from a few (albeit serious) isolated incidents, and not reflective of the greater situation. However the point remains - Erdogan can't get away with steaming forward in the direction he wishes as long as there is an empowered and engaged generation of people in Turkey - which it appears that there is.

More relevantly, it turns out the image of the masses of people on the Bosphorus Bridge (as commented in this thread by myself and RobH) is actually from the Istanbul Marathon held a few weeks back.

What is even more amusing is that Buzzfeed have cited EMRE's post here on GamesBids as their source of its original form.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwarz/one-of-the-most-popular-photos-from-the-protests-in-turkey-i

Here is that original GB post for 2011 - http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/topic/22193-intercontinental-istanbul-eurasia-marathon-kicks-off/?hl=marathon

Links to this page went viral on twitter a couple of days back, server was actually unresponsive for a bit.

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wow... even im tricked from facebook :(

also some bloody pics are photoshoped to provoke people here later i learn.

here the link

http://haber.mynet.com/sosyal-medyada-bilgi-kirliligi-699886-guncel/

we dont have a media showing whats happening, we can just learn from facebook and twitter and as u see there is a big disinformation.

altough its funny im the one sharing the same photo lol.

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Istanbul's stock exchange suffered its biggest one-day loss in a decade as it closed down 10.5 percent lower as anti-government protests stretched into a fourth day on Monday.

That's quite shocking. A very big fall. Put into perspective though, Turkey's stocks have multiplied in value of the last four years, so I doubt it'll affect the general upward trend. Still, quite a drop.

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If this had been Russia, Putin would have found a way to blame the United States for it.

You'd better watch your back, or before you know it, it will be the Soviet Republic of Texas. Don't give up the good fight!

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Pretty incredible photo. Awful that the images get worse (in terms of the police officers advance). BuzzFeed made the comparison with a similar photo of sitting students being maced in an American university a few years ago.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/how-the-lady-in-red-became-turkeys-most-inspiring-meme

enhanced-buzz-5979-1370377222-13.jpg

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Tear Gas Returns to Turkey Protests - Aj Jazeera

Reports of renewed riot police force against protesters in Ankara surfaced on Saturday evening, with tear gas and water cannon apparently sprayed at people gathering in the capital's Kizilay Square.

Turkey Protests Live Blog - Al Jazeera

Anti-government protests are continuing in Turkey, despite government pleas for calm.

In a bid to placate the demonstrators, Deputy Prime Minister apologised for the "excessive force" used by police in the initial stages of the protest and agreed to meet with groups to discuss their concerns.

Demonstrations at Taksim Square in Istanbul started after trees were torn up to make way for redevelopment including removal of trees and the reconstruction of a former Ottoman army barracks.

Turkey Protests - about an hour ago

Turkish police used tear gas and water cannon to disperse thousands of people demonstrating Saturday in the centre of Ankara on the ninth day of nationwide protests against the government, an AFP photographer said.

Hundreds of riot police flooded the demonstrators with gas to dislodge them from Kizilay Square, the scene of week-long anti-government protests.

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Just seen on NBC nightly news that the riots are still persisting in Turkey. If this doesn't subside soon & continues for several weeks more, this could do some irreparable damage to their bid. These protests need to stop soon in order for that not to be the case.

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Just seen on NBC nightly news that the riots are still persisting in Turkey. If this doesn't subside soon & continues for several weeks more, this could do some irreparable damage to their bid. These protests need to stop soon in order for that not to be the case.

Yep, that's always been my view. A short period of protests I didn't think would have much impact. But, if they persist and escalate - and the crackdowns escalate as well, it's not going to be good for the bid.

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And even though these protests seem secular on the surface, it just brings forth the instability of the region...regardless of the apparent reasons. What's behind the unrest is also religious because the more secular sectors of society are openly rebelling and challenging Erdogan's conservative-leaning stance.

When I was there last year, I was just shocked to learn that some 75 generals and intellectuals who didn't like Erodgan were in jail awaiting trial. I think they (and their allies) will work to scuttle a 2020 Games so that Erdogan doesn not get all the credit for it.

He's farther along in making Turkey less secular than what the Muslim Sisterhood is doing in Egypt.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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Erdogan is probrably angry that his attempt to shore up his power with the AKP's increasingly pro-Muslim restrictions, for example, has been inconvienced by these national protests as Turkey rapidly becomes a power player in the region and also, by extension, Europe. The party's policies seem to a very curious mix. Perhaps he and his party was granted a lucrative offer and these protests are a problem. His talking tough with Israel in support of the people of Gaza and Turkey's surprising effort along with Brazil towards resolving the Iranian nuclear "question" all seemed to point to a newly assertive Turkey that could play a balancing role in the region.

Something changed, however. Most especially in Erdogan's baffling shift in his relationship with Syria's Assad government. And in Turkey intercepting a Russian plane on its way to Syria, it was clear that any possibility of Turkey acting independently from NATO was a mirage.

70 lawyers have been arrested in the protests right now.

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And even though these protests seem secular on the surface, it just brings forth the instability of the region...regardless of the apparent reasons. What's behind the unrest is also religious because the more secular sectors of society are openly rebelling and challenging Erdogan's conservative-leaning stance.

When I was there last year, I was just shocked to learn that some 75 generals and intellectuals who didn't like Erodgan were in jail awaiting trial. I think they (and their allies) will work to scuttle a 2020 Games so that Erdogan doesn not get all the credit for it.

He's farther along in making Turkey less secular than what the Muslim Sisterhood is doing in Egypt.

Correct on all counts.

I also agree that, even though I support Istanbul's Olympic campaign, if the protests continue and persists for weeks as does the crackdown from the AKP government, it will definitely not look good for Istanbul's prospects.

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Well, the media speculation on the protests' impact on the bid have started:

Istanbul 2020 Olympics: Is the Campaign Doomed By Protests?

As the widespread anti-government protests in Turkey continue, there is speculation as to whether they will impact Istanbul's bid to host the 2020 Olympic Games. Protests have spread across the country after a violent police crack down on a peaceful demonstration against the demolition of an Istanbul park last week. The Turkish city, which has been the scene of huge protests and a violent police response over the past few days, is competing with Madrid and Tokyo to host the event. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) is due to make its decision in September.

The promoters of the bid remain confident, but the longer the protests continue and they show no sign of stopping anytime soon the more they are likely to negatively affect Turkey's image and its chances of winning the vote.

Amid growing reports of government attempts to censor the communications of protesters, and the start of a two day strike by public sector unions in solidarity with the protesters, the bid organizers said on Sunday that "despite these recent events, all sections of Turkey remain united in our dream to host our nation's first ever Olympic and Paralympic Games in 2020." Referencing the slogan of the bid, 'Bridge Together', they said that among Turks "there is a common desire to unite in the Olympic spirit and show the world that we can work together for a better Turkey."

The bid is Turkey's fifth to host the games, and as Mark Johanson of the International Business Times rightly points out, "how well Istanbul handles the protests will likely become a major factor in the success or failure of its bid for the Olympic." Promoters of the bid have labelled the ongoing protests a "regrettable situation" and have said that they will monitor developments carefully. Regrettable because of the violent police crack down and the government's attempt to stifle dissent, or because of how the protests might harm Turkey's image and the prospects of the bid? It's not hard to guess which.

The IOC evaluation commission will report on its assessment of the three bids on June 25, following the presentations last week in St Petersburg. The candidate cities will then present their bids directly to IOC members at the beginning of July. Given that in the past the IOC has awarded the Olympics to countries where the government systematically cracks down on dissent, such as China, IOC members are likely to be less concerned about the grievances of the protesters and the government response, and more concerned simply with whether the city would be safe for athletes or not.

Given that events such as the Olympics Games can confer upon the host government a certain air of legitimacy and prestige, and also provides a large spectacle that serves to distract attention, both domestically and internationally, from other things going on inside the country, the Turkish government will no doubt be even more keen for the bid to be successful.

Given the circumstances, should the IOC even be willing to award the Turkish government with such a prestigious event or should there be calls for a boycott?

PolicyMic

Saw similar stories starting to crop up on subscription sites as well.

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The mess on Tuesday (June 11) in Istanbul may be a very good indicator how the government plans to respond. Turkey's stability and even its democratic traditions are in jeopardy. Its Olympic prospects would appear to be ruined but considering how the protests have been handled today, that may be the least of the problems in that nation.

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I don't know if the bid is "ruined" yet or not, but one thing is certain. The Turks are doing more damage to themselves than anyone else.

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