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baron-pierreIV

Uh-oh. Riots in Istanbul not good...

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Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but after Beijing got the games it became obvious that the IOC doesn't really cares too much at all about democracy in a host country (which reminds me, remember that South Korea was awarded the Olympics when they were in the middle of their most repressive dictatorship ever, which ended just some months before the start of the games.).

Now, it's true that these events, alongside the government incapacity to face the situation at the Syrian border, tarnish the image of Istanbul as they happen in the same year they're bidding for the Olympics. Ironic that this started because of a park instead of the Turkish town which got bombed by the Civil War in their neighbor country.



PS: Does anyone knows if the Tienanmen Massacre had something to do with Beijing 2000 bid defeat?



PS: Turkish PM Recep Endorgan said he won't step back on his decision and accused the protests of having became something ideological instead of being about the park demolition.

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Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but after Beijing got the games it became obvious that the IOC doesn't really cares too much at all about democracy in a host country (which reminds me, remember that South Korea was awarded the Olympics when they were in the middle of their most repressive dictatorship ever, which ended just some months before the start of the games.).

Yes, the sport governing bodies doesn't care about democracy.... Which are the countries that are organizing most of the international sport events : China, Russia, Qatar, Azerbaijan... etc !!!!

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That's the only objection i have against Istanbul.

That a win will help Erdogan to stay in power. Just get rid of the guy please Turkey.

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That's the only objection i have against Istanbul.

That a win will help Erdogan to stay in power. Just get rid of the guy please Turkey.

Probably not the best democrat.. but where would stand Turkey today without him ???

Look at its neighbors !!!

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PS: Turkish PM Recep Endorgan said he won't step back on his decision and accused the protests of having became something ideological instead of being about the park demolition.

This sounds familiar to me... It's basically the same response the "indignados" and the human tides get from the government every time they demonstrate in Spain...

I'm not sure whether these riots will impact Istanbul's bid. If there's an impact, it will probably be negative, but the IOC may just let it go.

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The IOC voters may not care about local politics, but they do care about the Olympics being embarassed. In fact, authoritarian leaders are an advantage, because they can more easily supress pesky protesters.

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1.000 people arrested and more than 90 rallies happening...the situation is getting out of hand. :o

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Poor Syrians. They escape the mayhem and carnage in their own country...only to come to a land where the people are also being gassed. Hope there is some satisfactory resolution soon...all around.

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According to news here, many of the widely circulating images of the riots in Istanbul on social media are fake - or from Syria (including many of the images depicting more gross forms of violence). While the protests are huge in scale, many first hand reports from 'Day 1' in social media are claiming that its not as intense as initially reported - and many of the authentic images are from a few (albeit serious) isolated incidents, and not reflective of the greater situation. However the point remains - Erdogan can't get away with steaming forward in the direction he wishes as long as there is an empowered and engaged generation of people in Turkey - which it appears that there is.

More relevantly, it turns out the image of the masses of people on the Bosphorus Bridge (as commented in this thread by myself and RobH) is actually from the Istanbul Marathon held a few weeks back.

What is even more amusing is that Buzzfeed have cited EMRE's post here on GamesBids as their source of its original form.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwarz/one-of-the-most-popular-photos-from-the-protests-in-turkey-i

Edited by runningrings

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Except the people who'll be asking for the Games for Istanbul are the people on the wrong side of this fight.

Sorry, I can't see this being a good thing for 2020. If the IOC cares about democracy and freedom, then having Erdogan presenting Istanbul's bid to them in September will go down like a lead balloon. If they don't care (which I think was runningring's point in bringing up Russia and China), then these scenes hardly paint the picture of stability and security they'd want to be seeing.

You are right that the Istanbul bid would be in a better position now if these protests were not occurring, but the fact is that they are. They are not good for the bid, but I'm still not convinced that it is reflective of anything that could mean that Turkey is unable to organise an Olympic Games from September. These protests are not of an extremist nature, but rather the opposite. The violence stems from inevitable clashes with police - which happens anywhere in the world when you have the right circumstances. It appears increasingly that this does have more in common with localised events like Occupy, Los Angeles in 1994 and London 2011, more than it does the likes of Syria, Egypt or Beijing in 1989 or even Athens today. However these things are organic and subject to change, so obviously my own observation is not absolute.

To reiterate what I mentioned earlier/ re:China and Russia, aside from them being the 2008 and 2014 hosts.. I feel that it does show that the IOC will "go there" even despite a lack of democracy. Remember, Washington and Westminster democracy is not the best option for most countries. I'm of the opinion that democracy wouldn't work in China, and that despite its major flaws the authoritarianism of the CCP is the only way to manage the situation there. I see Turkey has balancing EU-democracy, with a "splash of Putinism" as the method to maintain its stronger economy and varied socio-economic landscape. This comes with its baggage, and its up to the IOC to decide in September if it wants to marry its organisation with Turkey for the next seven years. However, history shows its not afraid to, and even on the 2000 vote it was only 2 votes away from going with a still raw, post-Tiannamen Square China instead of the relatively staid early 90's Keating-era Australia. To counter this, there are as many examples of the IOC going with countries of low democratic status as there are not: Tokyo, Mexico City, Moscow, Sarajevo, Seoul, Beijing and Sochi being explicit examples.

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Who is questionning Democratie in France or Sweden ??? And their ability to organize the Games in the future ????

Violences at a protest in Paris a few weeks ago...

Violences in Stockholm a few weeks ago...

http://youtu.be/d9KeJwnD1C0

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The democracies France and Sweden rank among the most free in the world, of course that doesn't mean there aren't internal issues. Questioning the democracy of Turkey is different. There's a thread I started on blasphemy laws in Turkey which points up some of the problems there - there is such a thing as tyranny of the majority, and although that's probably putting it too strongly the creeping Islamism in Turkey is the antithesis of democracy even if it is being carried out by an elected government.

And yes, I think the police reaction to this does raise questions for the IOC. Sorry, but I wouldn't want this police force - a force it seems even Turks are finding hard to trust - to be the backbone of security operations in 2020. Why would the IOC turn a blind eye to this?

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The AKP needs to be monitored closely in relation to these events...If they continue with police brutality then Istanbul should not given the games..Erdogan is an arrogant leader, who thinks he can do what he wants when he wants...The spotlight is on Turkey now...

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And yes, I think the police reaction to this does raise questions for the IOC. Sorry, but I wouldn't want this police force - a force it seems even Turks are finding hard to trust - to be the backbone of security operations in 2020. Why would the IOC turn a blind eye to this?

I think if given the chance, the police involved in 2020 would be heavily scrutinised, given the level of management provided to security in any Olympics.

Given the fact that Erdogan himself has explicitly condemned the evident police brutality, I can't see how it is any worse than any similar country - or indeed how the police would conduct itself under similar circumstances in countries like France or even here in Australia (where there have been numerous incidents of brazen police brutality, in NSW in particular, in recent years). The UK has a very colourful record (even very recently) of police brutality when facing unrest.

Look at Russia, Belarus or Ukraine, where gay rights marches are on an almost monthly basis met with brutal violence by police, with political leaders even explicitly justifying the use of force against "mentally ill" homosexuals - I'm thinking of Putin himself and the Mayor of St. Petersburg in particular here. Does this make you worry about the police in Sochi? Meanwhile, Istanbul Pride 2012 attracted some 25,000 in relative peace, with little police interference - it has in the past been met with police brutality, but from what I understand its now moving toward greater acceptance.

The AKP needs to be monitored closely in relation to these events...If they continue with police brutality then Istanbul should not given the games..Erdogan is an arrogant leader, who thinks he can do what he wants when he wants...The spotlight is on Turkey now...

It would be a harsh lesson. But if this is ongoing, then it would be on that would need to be learnt. As for if the IOC is going to completely take this into account in four months time, is another situation all together.

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The democracies France and Sweden rank among the most free in the world, of course that doesn't mean there aren't internal issues. Questioning the democracy of Turkey is different. There's a thread I started on blasphemy laws in Turkey which points up some of the problems there - there is such a thing as tyranny of the majority, and although that's probably putting it too strongly the creeping Islamism in Turkey is the antithesis of democracy even if it is being carried out by an elected government.

And yes, I think the police reaction to this does raise questions for the IOC. Sorry, but I wouldn't want this police force - a force it seems even Turks are finding hard to trust - to be the backbone of security operations in 2020. Why would the IOC turn a blind eye to this?

I'm not debating / comparing the democratie in general in France, Sweden or Turkey.

I just trying to analyse the impact of such images and such violence... without taking specificaly into consideration the reasons of them. As this is what most of the people will do. You are noticing that there is violence... but you don't know the real reasons...

So riots, violence, protests are part of most of the democraties...

So I'm still thinking that if it stops quickly, it will have no impact on the Istanbul 2020 race....

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guys its serious, people really suffering here

Akp sympathisens and police together attacking people, firing tear and pepper gas to protesters non stop. Istanbul Beşiktaş is in fire. millions protesting the government and police. and what PM said in a speech live, if they are 20.000 i can bring 500.000 to taksim??? government and PM openly threatening.

and NO CNN no BBC no MEDIA publishing anything. people share clips on facebook and youtube and minutes later they are banning.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151502368263731&set=vb.651928730&type=2&theater

please in any chance u have some relatives in tvs, tell them whats happening here.



:( all swans in Kuğulu Park ( swan Park) in ankara died cause of pepper gas...

:(

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I can’t believe people on here are sympathizing in ANY way with the police or saying the protesters exaggerate what we see or it’s just like NYC occupy movement!

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I can’t believe people on here are sympathizing in ANY way with the police or saying the protesters exaggerate what we see or it’s just like NYC occupy movement!

i really dont want to share too much things here but its turn into police slaughtering citizens here.

everyone on facebook sharing wifi passwords, addresses that can help, medics, dr numbers.

and what we have now on cnnturk is gourmet programme...

on the other hand millions of protesters making noise by banging pots, pans in peace and joyfull. cause elder ones cant use pc and web as efficent as younglings. even my mother never saw the pics of taksim. i showed her and she start to cry " god mercy those children arent they your brothers sisters whats that violence"???

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Boy, am glad I visited last summer. I kinda had this uneasy feeling that the peaceful co-existence was merely on the surface. But I didn't expect the tension to erupt so soon.

Stay well and safe, emre! Stand up for what u believe in. This appears to be a turning point for your country!!

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anonymous hacking all governmental sites. istanbul municipality sites collapsed...

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As it was mentioned here before, I really doubt the IOC voters care about this issue, but they'll question it. Anyway, talking about democracy is important to any country trying to bid for the games. But if we check the ballots in previous olympic bids, Cortina d'Ampezzo, Rome, Tokyo, Sapporo and Munich (by the way, Madrid was second in this race while Franco governed) were elected just after the World War II. Then we found Moscow and Seoul elections when those countries were sank in corruption and oppression just during their elections. I think Turkey will learn the lesson and may improve in all aspects.

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As it was mentioned here before, I really doubt the IOC voters care about this issue, but they'll question it. Anyway, talking about democracy is important to any country trying to bid for the games. But if we check the ballots in previous olympic bids, Cortina d'Ampezzo, Rome, Tokyo, Sapporo and Munich (by the way, Madrid was second in this race while Franco governed) were elected just after the World War II. Then we found Moscow and Seoul elections when those countries were sank in corruption and oppression just during their elections. I think Turkey will learn the lesson and may improve in all aspects.

It really doesn't seem like the country is really stable to have a games

Yes Beijing got the games but IOC really wanted to tick China off there to go list. This doesn't look good.

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