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Terrorists kill soldier with machete near London's Olympic shooting venue

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Oaky - resorting to photoshopped images?



I know. Something about this crime is just so heartless -- because it was personal and done in such a public way.

Like you give a damn, you love it.

Edited by runningrings

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Oaky - resorting to photoshopped images?

Like you give a ****, you love it.

Obviously. I mean, as if Islam would write such horrible things -- it's the religion of peace afterall. I heard a rumour all the references to jihad in the Koran were written by this wee infidel jobby:

Tinker_Bell_(Disney_Fairies).jpg

You've been right all along runningrings. Islam has been hijacked.

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My point is -- that image you posted is old news. It was rendered to be ironic. Crazy and deranged, nonetheless. Much like you.

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My point is -- that image you posted is old news. It was rendered to be ironic. Crazy and deranged, nonetheless. Much like you.

Is this one contemporary enough for you:

Terrorists-behead-British-Soldier-outsid

Or did someone hijack microsoft paint and 'misrepresent' this too? Wait, this must be taken out of context runningrings as you repeatedly keep saying.

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Here is the original version.

behead.jpg

Paul, you must have photoshopped it. How dare you insult Islam. (Sarcasm).

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Oaky do you follow any religion by any chance?

Nope. I do however know some religions have more merit than others. We only need to look at the world to see how one religion seems to outscore all others combined in the hate stakes.

Were you hoping I was religious so you could say "but this religion does bad things"? Sorry, all religions are just mankind's attempt to make sense of the world. Most religions, whilst keeping tenets of their faith embrace the modern world. Islam is still partying like it's 700AD.

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Is this one contemporary enough for you:

Terrorists-behead-British-Soldier-outsid

Or did someone hijack microsoft paint and 'misrepresent' this too? Wait, this must be taken out of context runningrings as you repeatedly keep saying.

You sad, demented human being. You, and the guy on the picture. Both mentally-ill, weak, brainwashed individuals.

Edited by runningrings

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The very fact there are 3m Muslims in the UK and these are events are actually pretty rare suggests however evil the Koran is or otherwise, the way most Muslims interpret it is - like most religions - moulded by circumstance. It's why I don't have much time for religion in general because all religions choose what is literal and what is metaphor and what is "of its time" to suit their circumstance. It all seems pretty silly.

That said, of course Islam is the problem child (and as the youngest of the Abrahamic religions I don't think that's a bad description) of world religions right now. I haven't read all nine pages of this thread, but I rather think runningrings' question of what should be done is the pertinent one because neither the Koran nor Islam are going anywhere. Railing against it in the way some do is about as fun and fruitful as banging your head into a brick wall and will probably end up hurting just as much. Of course there should be security on the one hand, but to be honest it's going to be soft power and economic development and strong secular government that will solve the problems.

A starting point could be neutering the power of religions to influence the most impressionable and most vulnerable people, and that means stopping the promotion of faith schools, and shutting down (illegalising) religious courts which are often deeply misogynist. One set of laws for all - determined by the government, not by your local Imam's or Rabbi's interpretation of an ancient text. And universities and colleges in this country need to be more careful about who they give platforms to as well because it does seem some have allowed themselves - probably through good intentions - to become bases for some hate preaching. And lastly, we have the question of being able to easily deport proven warmongers which is one the EU needs to deal with because they're making things hard for nations to remove these cancerous minds. Beyond that, making sure people have homes and jobs and things to occupy themselves is always a good medicine to most of society's ills. What to do in the wider world is more tricky. But there are things we can do to sort our own house out first I think.

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You sad, demented human being. You, and the guy on the picture. Both mentally-ill, weak, brainwashed individuals.

Did you edit your post from "You sad, demented human being." to "You sad, demented human being. You, and the guy on the picture. Both mentally-ill, weak, brainwashed individuals"

to avoid accusations that yet again, as your posting history shows, you're more obsessed with attacking me as opposed to taking issue with the ACTUAL TERRORISTS?

I agree about the brainwashing part -- these jihadists are brainwashed with Koranic hate. No wonder they act so badly.

Do you have something against mentally ill people runningrings? It's just, that's at least twice you've labelled me that in this thread alone. It's not true but ofcourse you know that -- you're merely saying it to try and 'hurt' me because I had the audacity to challenge the liberal lies used to exonerate Islam from terrorist guilt.

It speaks volumes that your anger is greater for me than it is towards the terrorists whom you have consistently made excuses for whilst simultaneously attacking anyone who dared point out facts.

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/\/\ Well said, Rob. But Islam is still the sick cult. It must be abolished, made illegal and stamped out. It is a bloody, barbaric "cult;" nothing more.

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/\/\ Well said, Rob. But Islam is still the sick cult. It must be abolished, made illegal and stamped out. It is a bloody, barbaric "cult;" nothing more.

Banning a religion of 1.5bn followers would be a neat trick, I'd like to know how you'd do it! But if you want to see outright civil war rather than "just" a handful of bloody attacks on our streets, then banning an entire religion would probably be a sure-fire way of going about it. ;)

Edited by RobH

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/\/\ Well said, Rob. But Islam is still the sick cult. It must be abolished, made illegal and stamped out. It is a bloody, barbaric "cult;" nothing more.

A cult which uses liberal secular privileges in the host countries to further its own goal -- to install the global caliphate. That's why defenders of Islam and its jihad like runningrings use the liberal tactic of slurring people as bigots -- they hope to silence people from correctly pointing out certain truths about Islam.

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Its funny y'know, I think that the vast majority of people just don't have it in them to be violent to the extent shown by the actions of these two guys... that makes me glad. When you boil it all down I don't think its got anything to do with ancient texts and whose invisible omnipitent being is better than the other, its about the human condition and universal values of how one human being should treat another. These men lived in a peaceful, free society and they as individuals chose to do this. How they justify it to themselves and the world is not of interest to me.... the fact that they physically hacked another human being to death in the middle of a street in broad daylight is the most disturbing element in all of this.

So... you can debate what the Koran or the Bible says or doesn't say till the cows come home. Most intelligent people in the muslim and christian world understand that religious texts are interpreted in all kinds of ways to suit all kinds of agendas. The fact remains that on the human level, I can't look at these events in anything but total despair that an individual could cause another person to suffer to this extent.

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Its funny y'know, I think that the vast majority of people just don't have it in them to be violent to the extent shown by the actions of these two guys... that makes me glad. When you boil it all down I don't think its got anything to do with ancient texts and whose invisible omnipitent being is better than the other, its about the human condition and universal values of how one human being should treat another. These men lived in a peaceful, free society and they as individuals chose to do this. How they justify it to themselves and the world is not of interest to me.... the fact that they physically hacked another human being to death in the middle of a street in broad daylight is the most disturbing element in all of this.

So... you can debate what the Koran or the Bible says or doesn't say till the cows come home. Most intelligent people in the muslim and christian world understand that religious texts are interpreted in all kinds of ways to suit all kinds of agendas. The fact remains that on the human level, I can't look at these events in anything but total despair that an individual could cause another person to suffer to this extent.

Right, I agree. The human condition is flawed.We are built egoistically and therefore drawn to bad behaviours. That's why it is imperative that our society is free from hate since it is fundamental in shaping us and who we are. But there's only one way you can interpret words like these:

Koran verse:(8.13)

Therefore cut off their heads, and strike off all the ends of the fingers. This shall they suffer because they have opposed Allah and His Prophet, and whosoever shall oppose Allah and His Prophet, verily Allah will be severe in punishing them

Not every muslim who reads verses like the above will go and kill. But the fact such hateful verses do exist in such large quantities in Islam's Holy Books means that the people who do read these words and do have the feelings to do bad things have the Islamic authority to do so. Remeber, in Islam, the Koran is the authority -- muslims don't believe is moral relativism or man made liberties. The truth is Allah. Allah is the truth. Mohammed was his messenger on earth. Mohammed was a jihadist therefore the prototype for all Islamic jihad is authenticated with him.

If muslims are peace loving, why haven't they reformed their religion and removed every reference to killing from their books? What do they hope to achieve by allowing people to read and absorb that filth?

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I was unaware the fact that those verses are in the Koran. It is a shame. However, most and I emphasize most people know not to take those words literally and you can't generalize all Muslims because of this one crime. I agree they do need to alter the Koran somewhat to prevent this from happening in the future. However, knowing religion in general this will not occur and I hope these sort of tragedies do not occur in the future.

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/\/\ Well said, Rob. But Islam is still the sick cult. It must be abolished, made illegal and stamped out. It is a bloody, barbaric "cult;" nothing more.

Oooh good plan! Lets piss off a quarter of the population on Earth! That shouldn't create too much bloodshed compared to what's happening now, right?

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Yay literal interpretations of archaic religious texts!!

Leviticus 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (My father was a c*nt - kill me!)
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. (My beloved late wife wasn't a virgin when we got married - we missed the chance to smash her head in with rocks - nonetheless based on this she must be in helll! WIN!)
Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. (Well if that doesn't give the white man the OK to go all genocidal on Aborigines (moreso!) nothing will!)
Deuteronomy 20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. (All Aborigines are officially slaves! Yay! Cook me some fish bitchez!!)
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Off to work 8 hours, then hand over the pay and give me a hummer!)
I FUCKKING LOVE LITERAL UNQUESTIONED INTERPRETATIONS OF RELIGIOUS TEXTS!!

A man died horribly. The people who took his life are not representative of an entire religion. Any religious text can be re-interpreted or translated to suit ones immediate needs.

This isn't me making an argument - it is fact.

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Right, I agree. The human condition is flawed.We are built egoistically and therefore drawn to bad behaviours. That's why it is imperative that our society is free from hate since it is fundamental in shaping us and who we are. But there's only one way you can interpret words like these:

Koran verse:(8.13)

Therefore cut off their heads, and strike off all the ends of the fingers. This shall they suffer because they have opposed Allah and His Prophet, and whosoever shall oppose Allah and His Prophet, verily Allah will be severe in punishing them

Not every muslim who reads verses like the above will go and kill. But the fact such hateful verses do exist in such large quantities in Islam's Holy Books means that the people who do read these words and do have the feelings to do bad things have the Islamic authority to do so. Remeber, in Islam, the Koran is the authority -- muslims don't believe is moral relativism or man made liberties. The truth is Allah. Allah is the truth. Mohammed was his messenger on earth. Mohammed was a jihadist therefore the prototype for all Islamic jihad is authenticated with him.

If muslims are peace loving, why haven't they reformed their religion and removed every reference to killing from their books? What do they hope to achieve by allowing people to read and absorb that filth?

I could easily quote some lines from fairy tails taught to children about a wolf eating a granny and a wicked witch feeding a poison apple to a princess... if you're raised and educated properly and are of sound mind, regardless of your religious background, at a basic level you should know that stabbing and slicing off an innocent man's head is abhorant and you couldn't bring yourself to do it. You also have perspective about the written word, even if you have a faith. So I don't buy that its all about mindless muslims slavishly following the Koran... there's far more complex issues at play here related to parenting, poverty, education, opportunity and values.... not only of the UK but also the culture these men were born into. Most of the problems we see around the muslim world in relation to fundamentalist beliefs are related to tradition, culture, corruption, boredom and despair. These things distort people's understanding of religious beliefs and that coupled with testosterone fuelled angry men create a dangerous cocktail. I don't buy that it all stems from colonialism...we're 50-70 years on from that now....evolve.

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Yay literal interpretations of archaic religious texts!!

Leviticus 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (My father was a c*nt - kill me!)
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. (My beloved late wife wasn't a virgin when we got married - we missed the chance to smash her head in with rocks - nonetheless based on this she must be in helll! WIN!)
Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. (Well if that doesn't give the white man the OK to go all genocidal on Aborigines (moreso!) nothing will!)
Deuteronomy 20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. (All Aborigines are officially slaves! Yay! Cook me some fish bitchez!!)
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Off to work 8 hours, then hand over the pay and give me a hummer!)
I FUCKKING LOVE LITERAL UNQUESTIONED INTERPRETATIONS OF RELIGIOUS TEXTS!!

A man died horribly. The people who took his life are not representative of an entire religion. Any religious text can be re-interpreted or translated to suit ones immediate needs.

This isn't me making an argument - it is fact.

"Any religious text can be re-interpreted or translated to suit ones immediate needs"

No it can't. In the Islamic Koran, when it says "Therefore cut off their heads, and strike off all the ends of the fingers. This shall they suffer because they have opposed Allah and His Prophet, and whosoever shall oppose Allah and His Prophet, verily Allah will be severe in punishing them" it means to literally cut off someone's head etc.

Why would a religion have words like these? what is the purpose of words like these? How does one read words like these and NOT interpret them as directives to killing?

Your quoting of Old Testament quotes proves what? How many Jews or Christians have recently killed someone in the streets whilst shouting "glory to Moses" or "Praise to Jesus"?. It's an objective fact that Islam is by far the biggest -- both quantitatively and qualitatively -- of producing terrorists.

​You've also conveniently glossed over ONE BIG GLARING FACT either because it's inconvenient to your argument or because your just plain uneducated on it. Islam WAS FOUNDED by Jihad. Yep, Mohammed, the founder of Islam practiced Jihad. And since in Islam Mohammed is considered the perfect human form for ALL muslims to aspire to, then that means jihad is authenticated as righteous in Islam.

Everything CAN'T be misinterpreted. Some words can be CORRECTLY INTERPRETED.

Why is it when muslims produce yet another killing (there's been over 20,000+) Islamic terrorist attacks since 2001 we keep getting told "they're misinterpreting the text". They're not, because the text is saying TO DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

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I could easily quote some lines from fairy tails taught to children about a wolf eating a granny and a wicked witch feeding a poison apple to a princess... if you're raised and educated properly and are of sound mind, regardless of your religious background, at a basic level you should know that stabbing and slicing off an innocent man's head is abhorant and you couldn't bring yourself to do it. You also have perspective about the written word, even if you have a faith. So I don't buy that its all about mindless muslims slavishly following the Koran... there's far more complex issues at play here related to parenting, poverty, education, opportunity and values.... not only of the UK but also the culture these men were born into. Most of the problems we see around the muslim world in relation to fundamentalist beliefs are related to tradition, culture, corruption, boredom and despair. These things distort people's understanding of religious beliefs and that coupled with testosterone fuelled angry men create a dangerous cocktail. I don't buy that it all stems from colonialism...we're 50-70 years on from that now....evolve.

How many children go on killing sprees because of allegorical fairytales as opposed to LITERAL ISLAMIC KORANIC DIRECTIVES? This is the point -- Islam IS producing many jihadists and isn't taught as some fairytale -- it is based on the REAL LIFE PERSON OF MOHAMMED. Roald Dahl and J.K Rowling books don't seem to quite on the level of the Koran somehow.......

You said "if you're raised and educated properly and are of sound mind" -- that's the whole point. How can a person be raised of sound mind if they are indoctrinated THEIR ENTIRE LIVES under Sharia law?

You know, if the Koran didn't contain any of those ABUNDANT references to kill, wage war, subjugate the infidel/enemies of Islam then things couldn't be misinterpreted. So why does Islam have words like those in their Korans at all? Their isn't 'alternative' meanings to an Islamic directive to 'smite off someone's fingers'. -- it means to chop yer fingers off. And the fact these words are authenticated via the MOST OFFICIAL DOCUMENT IN ISLAM means that Muslims have the Koranic backing to do these things in the name of Allah against the infidel. Not all do. But because these words do exist it means some inevitably will.

If the nasty words didn't exist there couldn't be any misinterpreting going on. Simple as that. And no, not all religions are bad.

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:( Oakydoky, We are just over a year away from the Commonwealth Games,

...good debating but the negative connotations of this subject really doesn't do your substantial Signature advert any justice.

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The fact that oakydokey has -56 likes on his posts on this forum really says it all.

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