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COC To Back Possible Toronto 2024 Bid


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And Rio doesn't? China is also not free of crime & poverty, but it didn't stop them from spending $60 Billion on their 3-week enormous extravaganza. People always bring up those notions against Africa, but truth is, even without an Olympics there, the goverment wouldn't automatically use that money that they would've used on a Games then put it to use on social issues. It's a noble argument, but it's an oxymoron one at that. On the contrary, an Olympics in South Africa could raise the profile & pride of it's people, much like Lula so vehemently argued for Rio's case.

Even a city and country heaped into debt does gain some benefit from an Olympics. We all know what's happened with the economy in Greece (from which the Olympics is a culprit, but hardly the only reason for their downfall). As much as they might have been better off without the massive expense of an Olympics, a lot of infrastructure improvements were made to a city and country that desperately needed it but that wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. The same could probably be said for South Africa. We saw 3 years ago what hosting the World Cup did for the international visibility of the country and perhaps the entire continent. That's what an Olympics does for South Africa that it might not for Canada. And that's very much what Africa does for the Olympics.

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Just for clarification, those countries are MORE populous than Canada, not less. Of course the IOC won't get out their calculators and crunch numbers, but I think that 4 games in 48 years will "feel"

But you know, it won't matter because the IOC is "desperate" to go to Africa right away

Someone from Brisbane, who would like to see the Olympics there someday, really shouldn't be "picking" on Durban.

I just read most skyscrapers under construction in the world. That would be booming lol idk

Enhance in what way? How did London, Beijing do it? (Idk that's why I am asking).

Well, China was able to play the world's most populous nation card. And that was fair enough. I remember when Sydney won 2000, and Dick Pound publicly said he was disappointed because it would have meant so much and been such a huge gesture to bring the message of Olympism to a third of the world who'd never experienced it. Sydney, by his reckoning, didn't need any education on what Olympism means.

London did a brilliant and consistent job of painting their bid as an Olympics for "Youth" - to get them away from their TVs and keyboards and getting excited and active in sport. They played that far, far more in their presentations than "we want to regenerate the East End".

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Well, China was able to play the world's most populous nation card. And that was fair enough. I remember when Sydney won 2000, and Dick Pound publicly said he was disappointed because it would have meant so much and been such a huge gesture to bring the message of Olympism to a third of the world who'd never experienced it. Sydney, by his reckoning, didn't need any education on what Olympism means.

Interesting, I never knew Dick Pound said this. But this is exactly the type of stuff that most of us here can see, "the bigger picture", & some few others don't see, or don't wanna see. And this is from a senior Canadian IOC member. That's something that things like "most multicultural, most booming", & what have you, can't come close to. And that's something similar of what an Olympics would mean to Africa, & not to a relative smallish country that's already experienced the Olympic experience multiple times within 34 years.

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Key words are like to. I know its not gonna happen FYI and its also rather irrelevant to this discussion.

Why are you continuing to bring up brisbane i know it won't happen when cities like Tokyo and Istanbul are unable to land a games. Seems like its not quite old for some IOC members.

I guess for the same irrelevant reason that you brought the United States into the discusion.

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Well, China was able to play the world's most populous nation card. And that was fair enough. I remember when Sydney won 2000, and Dick Pound publicly said he was disappointed because it would have meant so much and been such a huge gesture to bring the message of Olympism to a third of the world who'd never experienced it. Sydney, by his reckoning, didn't need any education on what Olympism means.

London did a brilliant and consistent job of painting their bid as an Olympics for "Youth" - to get them away from their TVs and keyboards and getting excited and active in sport. They played that far, far more in their presentations than "we want to regenerate the East End".

In essence the legacy for hosting.

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To be quite frank, I can understand why Pound would have made those comments. Despite being a Sydneysider, I can understand that many aspects of Sydney's 2000 Olympic bid were superficial - it was about delivering a reliable, bold, brash Olympic Games in an extremely photogenic and energetic city. There wasn't really (as far as I'm aware) an element of changing Australia. I'd even go a far to say that Sydney would be the same city today without or without 2000 - the only major difference would be an obviously smaller scale redevelopment at Homebush Bay. Sydney got lucky - Toronto needs to keep this in mind, as it would be a similar type of bid going against some compelling alternative options. Sydney had the benefit of Australia not having hosted in 44 years, Toronto doesn't have this luxury, no matter how you view the Winter Olympics.

If Sydney 2000 had never happened, and Sydney was going for 2024 - I still think we'd have a hard time. The more I think about it the more I'm grateful that we got 2000. Talk about the right place at the right time.

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In essence the legacy for hosting.

You should read Mike Lee's book on the London bid - not just fascinating for anyone who follows bid races, but really enlightening about how London so successfully came up with an inspiring message and story to tell the IOC.

Yeah, it's a legacy. But the legacy they were pushing was not regenerating an industrial site, but more about weaning the world's youth back to outdoor activity instead of being addicted to computers and TVs. In other words, inspirational, more than functional. A legacy for the Olympics, not just a legacy for London.

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In essence the legacy for hosting.

Aside from redeveloping the waterfront - what social legacies could the Olympics bring to Toronto that make it a unique option? I think that is what people are getting at. London identified a unique opportunity to alter the social status of the East End through regeneration. I'm not exactly an expert on Toronto, but it appears the Waterfront proposal would be similar to Sydney's at Homebush Bay - more a logistical "superficial" choice.

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That's a more compelling argument than you seem to want to give them credit for. If these bids were about the IOC finding the most technically sound bid in the most economically city they could find without regard to geopolitics, than Toronto probably be at the top of the list. But that's not how it works. The Olympics are about the IOC and furthering their agenda and their vision. These new frontier hosts like Beijing and Rio accomplish that objective for them because it brings their Olympic movement to locations that have never been a part of it before. It's the idea of promoting sport in those countries. If Toronto wants to sell themselves on the idea that their hosting an Olympics will turn summer sports into a big deal in Canada (or at least a bigger deal than they are now), that's what they need to offer to the IOC. Durban, simply being in South Africa, can offer that. And that might be all they need (that plus a halfway decent bid that the IOC can feel comfortable with).

It sucks that these cities have to now struggle to look for a "winning" appeal. Durban has it lucky but cities like Toronto or Paris aren't so lucky and they have to always make up some BS that post games legacy they will continue to promote and recommend sports to the whole country and there young population although it doesn't seemed to have worked for Beijing or Athens although London has pulled it off with the world athletics championships in 2017.

Whoops scratch Beijing they got World Athletics Championships in 2015

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This isn't something new that bid cities "now" have to endure. The Olympics have always been about some "BS winning appeal". Whether that be political, glamourous, legacy, or all of the above. The IOC just didn't come around before & play "duck, duck, duck, goose" & picked their city. It's always been about picking the best product, in their eyes, at the time.

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This isn't something new that bid cities "now" have to endure. The Olympics have always been about some "BS winning appeal". Whether that be political, glamourous, legacy, or all of the above. The IOC just didn't come around before & play "duck, duck, duck, goose" & picked their city. It's always been about picking the best product, in their eyes, at the time.

Yes but it's much harder to pull off nowadays. Look how great Madrid and Tokyo scored in 2016 yet they had no chance because South America was a new continent and that was the winning factor. Whenenver Durban bids they won't have to work nearly as hard as Paris would for 2024. Even though Paris would be a better host it's just Durban is a new frontier.

I mean Rio only averaged 6.4 for evaluation losing out to Doha but being lucky enough for them that Doha wasn't shortlisted and they were!

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It sucks that these cities have to now struggle to look for a "winning" appeal. Durban has it lucky but cities like Toronto or Paris aren't so lucky and they have to always make up some BS that post games legacy they will continue to promote and recommend sports to the whole country and there young population although it doesn't seemed to have worked for Beijing or Athens although London has pulled it off with the world athletics championships in 2017.

Yes but it's much harder to pull off nowadays. Look how great Madrid and Tokyo scored in 2016 yet they had no chance because South America was a new continent and that was the winning factor. Whenenver Durban bids they won't have to work nearly as hard as Paris would for 2024. Even though Paris would be a better host it's just Durban is a new frontier.

I mean Rio only averaged 6.4 for evaluation losing out to Doha but being lucky enough for them that Doha wasn't shortlisted and they were!

Remember.. this is a once every 4 years event you're talking about. Like FYI said, cities have always had to search for that certain type of appeal that makes them stand out over the other candidates. And yes, of course it's harder to pull off now because there are more cities and countries looking to host. There's always going to be a certain appeal to bringing the Olympics to a country or to a continent that has never had it before. Plus, in terms of legacy.. if a city (and country) is going to spend billions of dollars (if not tens of billions of dollars), I would like to think there's going to be some sort of post games legacy involved rather than all that time and effort and money going into a 2 1/2 week celebration so that it feels like the Olympics left a mark in that city that will last a generation, if not longer.

So again, what it's going to come down to more often than not isn't finding the best host, it's finding the one that furthers the Olympic movement. Hosting a grand and photogenic Olympics in a thriving city will make for a great 17 days, but what about before and after? You can't discount how important all that is to the IOC. It's not a knock against a city like Toronto or a country like Canada that they have to compete against this. That's simply how the game is played, fair or otherwise.

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I just read most skyscrapers under construction in the world. That would be booming lol idk

From what I see in SSC, I thought the Gulf emirates and/or Baku had the most construction going on. Isn't Toronto already a 'mature' market in that there is less demand for new skyscrapers?? Just asking.

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From what I see in SSC, I thought the Gulf emirates and/or Baku had the most construction going on. Isn't Toronto already a 'mature' market in that there is less demand for new skyscrapers?? Just asking.

They've been selling and at ridiculously high prices for downtown living. And there's a crapload of more that are in the planning stages. I know Toronto is #1 in North America for new construction havin more than NYC, Chicagp and LA combined. Plus the office space vacant rate is low and demand for new office buildings is quite high.

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^Well, gee. Could it be bcuz New York, Chicago & L.A. are already full, established huge urban areas. Especially New York, where there's not much more to go anyway when their main business district in confined to Manhattan Island. And those condos in Toronto don't seem to be selling as much lately according to the article posted earlier.

It's like the Middle East, some locations there are just "booming" with new construction, bcuz those areas are literally rising from nothing. Still doesn't mean, though, that any of them are on par with the already established big business centers of New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Frankfurt or Hong Kong.

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Even though Paris would be a better host it's just Durban is a new frontier.

I mean Rio only averaged 6.4 for evaluation losing out to Doha but being lucky enough for them that Doha wasn't shortlisted and they were!

Paris would be a great host, but that doesn't automatically mean that they would a "better host" than Durban. That is so subjective, especially when 115 people from many parts of the world are taking part in a secret ballot. To any one of them, Durban would be 'better'.

I think it was Q01 that phrased it perfectly; it's not necessarily Durban that the IOC wants, it's (South) Africa & what that would mean for the Olympic movement, versus just going to a place where an Olympics may not reach beyond the limits of the city hosting, which is at many times an argument used against U.S. bids. And that's why Rio 2016 benefitted in that scenario & why Madrid & Tokyo didn't, & which why also they are facing difficulty again for 2020.

And no Madrid did not get high praise for their 2016 bid like they did for their 2012 one. The 2016 IOC Evaluation Commission was much more critical with them than they were 4 years earlier, citing things like "the bid team doesn't have complete understanding of Games concept" or something along those lines. And also remember, that the IOC did not short-list Rio for 2012, in favor of having all the European glamor capitals in their line-up. So you can't say that cities like Paris, Madrid & Tokyo have to fight that much harder now when the IOC looks like they put the new-frontiers on their toes just as much.

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I just read most skyscrapers under construction in the world. That would be booming lol idk

Er, North America is not the world. Toronto is no doubt growing against the grain on a stagnant continent, but in terms of skyscraper growth open your eyes and take a look at the likes of Beijing, Shanghai (and a plethora of other Chinese cities), Moscow and the Middle East. Even here in Australia, we have five major cities with significant skyscraper construction happening - Melbourne for instance has two supertall skyscrapers (388m/108 floors and 410m/95 floors) that are expected to be approved in the coming weeks. Its an arbitrary argument, and NOT an argument that makes an Olympic bid compelling.

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Er, North America is not the world. Toronto is no doubt growing against the grain on a stagnant continent, but in terms of skyscraper growth open your eyes and take a look at the likes of Beijing, Shanghai (and a plethora of other Chinese cities), Moscow and the Middle East. Even here in Australia, we have five major cities with significant skyscraper construction happening - Melbourne for instance has two supertall skyscrapers (388m/108 floors and 410m/95 floors) that are expected to be approved in the coming weeks. Its an arbitrary argument, and NOT an argument that makes an Olympic bid compelling.

1) I did not say North America is the world. But my statement should have said Western Hemisphere.

2) AND I never said it would make the bid compelling. Someone mentioned Toronto is booming and this is why it is booming. It should and probably will never be a reason why Toronto hosts.

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Er, North America is not the world. Toronto is no doubt growing against the grain on a stagnant continent, but in terms of skyscraper growth open your eyes and take a look at the likes of Beijing, Shanghai (and a plethora of other Chinese cities), Moscow and the Middle East. Even here in Australia, we have five major cities with significant skyscraper construction happening - Melbourne for instance has two supertall skyscrapers (388m/108 floors and 410m/95 floors) that are expected to be approved in the coming weeks. Its an arbitrary argument, and NOT an argument that makes an Olympic bid compelling.

Er, I think you might change your mind if you took a look at Toronto right now. The amount of construction is insane.

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Mayor rob ford is expected to make an address any moment now and his spokespeople won't confirm what it's about. Olympics maybe?

Ummmm, looks like that was a no. B)

Er, I think you might change your mind if you took a look at Toronto right now. The amount of construction is insane.

The construction is also insane in Baku & Doha, but the IOC said, thanks but no thanks.

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