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COC To Back Possible Toronto 2024 Bid

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What do the Canadians want people to say? "Oh, if Toronto's in, they're hot favourites and will be dead certs to win"? Apart from that fact that it's a very hypethetical race to begin with, every bid carries some baggage - and even at this early stage Canada's recent hostings will be baggage. Can it overcome that? Possibly, but we'll need to see who it lines up against to get any feel.

lol no. American's just don't realize how big of a threat Toronto is to beating a below par US city.

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It is the last frontier, but with Durban I doubt it on its first try.

I'm sorry but what worldwide recognition does Durban have? I just don't get some of the love this city gets on this board. Wouldn't it make more sense with past bidder Cape Town? Yeah ok, Durban has this stadium that it can use. Ok! What else does this city offer besides a stadium. Ain't nobody know about this city worldwide.

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I'm sorry but what worldwide recognition does Durban have? I just don't get some of the love this city gets on this board. Wouldn't it make more sense with past bidder Cape Town? Yeah ok, Durban has this stadium that it can use. Ok! What else does this city offer besides a stadium. Ain't nobody know about this city worldwide.

I agree. Durban's stadium is too small for IOC standards I believe too.

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I'm sorry but what worldwide recognition does Durban have? I just don't get some of the love this city gets on this board. Wouldn't it make more sense with past bidder Cape Town? Yeah ok, Durban has this stadium that it can use. Ok! What else does this city offer besides a stadium. Ain't nobody know about this city worldwide.

The more ideal weather in the IOC's preferred time-window of the Games. It also has a sport precinct that can house other venues. The IOC has had first-hand experience with the city holding it's 2009 IOC session there where PyeongChang won it's 2018 bid. So the IOC (which are the ones that vote anyway) already know about it. And with bid-city visits no longer allowed, that's a leg up that Durban already has.

Besides, what city on the African continent can claim to be a true-glamour capital, the likes of a Paris or London? Cairo? Ummm, not really. It's a congested, dirty city that has it's civil problems. An African Olympics wouldn't be about "glamour", it would be about finally bringing the Olympics Games to the last continent that has yet to host them. As long as South Africa can produce a credible bid, then their emotive appeal is what's going to bring them to the finish-line, like PyeongChang, Beijing, & Rio.

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Oh, boohoo. Toronto isn't constantly being out down- maybe you're just not hearing what you want to hear? Any city, from any country would have a hard time gaining support when it appears to make claims of being deserving a fourth Olympics in under 50 years because "the world loves us." History shows that a great plan from a great city just doesn't always cut it ; Toronto learnt this for 2008 and I doubt 2024 will be much different. The IOC is proven to go for financial security, sentimentalism /emotion and new frontiers - Toronto isn't particularly strong in any of those areas. That's a BIG challenge, only years out of 2010, and *only* under 40 years since 1976 (let's not forget that).

This isn't an attack on Toronto as a city, its critical consideration of what it is asking, and how likely it is that this plan will be realised. As an urban planner, I'm in awe of Toronto, its handsdown the standup North American city in most fields. I can understand that in light of its growth over the past few decades that an Olympic Games would be a good fit, I just can't see it have any real chance of being realised in the 2020's if you look at the picture holistically.

Ya but the Americans here never seem to criticize there own cities. With a few exceptions like Tulsa, etc., you all think any American city can win in 2024. NYC and Chicago yes. But Dallas or Houston for example? Give me a break. What international appeal do either of those cities have? Like intoronto has said before, the Americans here are too afraid to admit that Toronto poses a legit threat to their chances of landing the games.

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Ya but the Americans here never seem to criticize there own cities. With a few exceptions like Tulsa, etc., you all think any American city can win in 2024. NYC and Chicago yes. But Dallas or Houston for example? Give me a break. What international appeal do either of those cities have? Like intoronto has said before, the Americans here are too afraid to admit that Toronto poses a legit threat to their chances of landing the games.

It's a joke really

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Which of the regular Americans have held Dallas or Houston on an Olympic pedestal? I think whenever those cities are discussed (or when some newbie loon tout's the like of Minneapolis) it's about their own discussions whether or not those cities will present a bid. And that I know of, Houston hasn't even made a peep about a bid.

But at the same token, like some of you accuse others of criticizing Toronto, some of you are doing the same with Philly & Boston. Especially Boston, which could make an attractive case if they decide to strongly pursue it.



And again, how many times must it be said, that even without a U.S. 2024 bid, Toronto could face much stiffer competition. So its not a matter of "feeling threatened" by a Toronto bid. :rolleyes:

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Yea but overall medals shows the total strength of a nation. If a country wins two gold medal and Canada wins 18 and one gold I disagree that country is athletically better.

Well, you keep telling yourself that - just remember, though, you and your southern neighbours are the only ones who justify your different methodology that way.

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Which of the regular Americans have held Dallas or Houston on an Olympic pedestal? I think whenever those cities are discussed (or when some newbie loon tout's the like of Minneapolis) it's about their own discussions whether or not those cities will present a bid. And that I know of, Houston hasn't even made a peep about a bid.

But at the same token, like some of you accuse others of criticizing Toronto, some of you are doing the same with Philly & Boston. Especially Boston, which could make an attractive case if they decide to strongly pursue it.

And again, how many times must it be said, that even without a U.S. 2024 bid, Toronto could face much stiffer competition. So its not a matter of "feeling threatened" by a Toronto bid. :rolleyes:

I think when they talk about those lesser American cities they mean that if the USA bids and Toronto is there, that they need to put up a city that's on the same or more on the international level and that equates to either New York City or Chicago. Los Angeles won't be a factor due to their 2 previous stints, Chicago has called it quits and NYC has a bunch of question marks. I personally don't see the US as much competition unless NYC comes out of the woodwork.

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Obviously population isn't the "only" factor, but it's one of those many factors, nontheless. Just like how many times has a country already hosted the Olympics. And when was the last time a certain country bidding last hosted, etc etc, etc. Again, just ask China if it totally doesn't matter then why were they harping about it throughout their 2008 campaign. It's almost akin to the Rio 2016 bid team always parading around that Olympic map whereever they went, & then some people citing that Rio's location had absolutely nothing to do with their win. Uh huh, okay.

I don't think 1 necessarily has to do with the other. Either way, it's not population is a factor or population is a factor. Nor does what the population card meant to China apply the other way to Canada.

100% I agree that the number of previous hostings will have a huge affect on the outcome. I just don't think the number relative to their population makes a difference. Canada is hindered by having hosting often. They're not hindered by being a country of their size that has hosted as often as they have. I mean, would it make a difference if there were 100 million people in Canada instead of 1/3 of that? I don't think it would. To me, it's such an over-blown factor that's not going to make much, if any difference.

But how do you know for sure that they're wouldn't be any IOC members that wouldn't think to themselves that "Canada has hosted too many Games already in relation to their relative smaller size" (no other country of similar size, other than France in the early De Courtebin years, has accomplished a similar feat). Especially if there are larger, more compelling candidates up on offer. We're talking about individuals who can be the most fastidious bunch & not vote for someone simply bcuz some big-mouth official from a competing bid criticized their (voters) native cuisine. That's also an 'armchair quaterback' observation, bcuz you can't say for certain that aspect won't register at all with any of the voting members. Yeah, AF bringing up Kenya & Algeria is irrelevant, but then so was the other poster trying to counter by bringing up India.

Is that an AF question? Are you seriously asking how I'm so sure and that you think I'm certain. Come on. I don't know. It's just my read on the situation. And yes, I think we spend more time thinking about these decisions, especially in the larger sense than some in the IOC do. It just gets old reading a response of "don't you know who these voters are and how easily they'll be swayed to not vote for your country?" I'm not unaware of this. But if we're really going to try and list everything that may or may not register with the voting members, then yes, if nothing else, that's over-analyzing the situation.

I think, as usual, we're on the same page here, we're just looking at it through a different prism. I think Athens was onto something.. if a country were to host 4 times in 48 years, that would absolutely feel like a lot. That logic applies to any country though (well, with the exception of the United States, which even our friends north of the border understand the reason for). To me, it has nothing to do with population and more to do with the fact that only 2 countries have hosted the Olympics more than Canada and 1 of those countries is France who has only hosted 1 in the time period where Canada has 3 times. That's why it feels like a lot. Not because of how many people live in Canada.

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I'm sorry but what worldwide recognition does Durban have? I just don't get some of the love this city gets on this board. Wouldn't it make more sense with past bidder Cape Town? Yeah ok, Durban has this stadium that it can use. Ok! What else does this city offer besides a stadium. Ain't nobody know about this city worldwide.

It's Africa - the IOC's last frontier. And Africa's most equipped contender to boot. Not to mention the IOC's been putting pressure on South Africa to go for it.

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Which of the regular Americans have held Dallas or Houston on an Olympic pedestal? I think whenever those cities are discussed (or when some newbie loon tout's the like of Minneapolis) it's about their own discussions whether or not those cities will present a bid. And that I know of, Houston hasn't even made a peep about a bid.

But at the same token, like some of you accuse others of criticizing Toronto, some of you are doing the same with Philly & Boston. Especially Boston, which could make an attractive case if they decide to strongly pursue it.

Fair enough. I personally have never put down Boston or Philadelphia. They are beautiful cities, but I don't think that they have the same international appeal as Toronto or New York City or Chicago or many European cities. And I mentioned Houston because of previous bids from them.

What I really find rediculous is in the USA 2024 forums, how people have speculated so much about NYC, and what their silence so far means. Its almost as if they are desperately hoping that NYC mounts a bid, by trying to turn any talk about NYC into positive signs that NYC will bid. I see the cities lack of response as a disinterest, not a secret underground potential Olympic bid evaluation by the city. But time will tell what happens with them.

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Ya but the Americans here never seem to criticize there own cities. With a few exceptions like Tulsa, etc., you all think any American city can win in 2024. NYC and Chicago yes. But Dallas or Houston for example? Give me a break. What international appeal do either of those cities have? Like intoronto has said before, the Americans here are too afraid to admit that Toronto poses a legit threat to their chances of landing the games.

Gotta disagree with that - I think the Americans here have been the biggest critics of their own cities. They tend to shoot down and look for the weaknesses in any contenders mentioned, from NYC down to Tulsa.

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It's Africa - the IOC's last frontier. And Africa's most equipped contender to boot. Not to mention the IOC's been putting pressure on South Africa to go for it.

OK!

There's a reason why Africa hasn't gotten a games. There's too many problems there. I think it would be an utter disaster. The poor will get poorer.

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I'm sorry but what worldwide recognition does Durban have? I just don't get some of the love this city gets on this board. Wouldn't it make more sense with past bidder Cape Town? Yeah ok, Durban has this stadium that it can use. Ok! What else does this city offer besides a stadium. Ain't nobody know about this city worldwide.

It's the same reasons that FIFA wanted to go to Africa.. now they can say they're inclusive of 1 more continent than they could before. It's not Durban that the IOC wants. They want South Africa. And I think they'll be willing to accept Durban and its flaws to get there.

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Gotta disagree with that - I think the Americans here have been the biggest critics of their own cities. They tend to shoot down and look for the weaknesses in any contenders mentioned, from NYC down to Tulsa.

But they don't shoot down the country in general. There are many weaknesses that any US bid will have, just like there are many weaknessess to a Canadian bid. My issue was just that Toronto and Canada's weaknesses as a whole get brought forth more.

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OK!

There's a reason why Africa hasn't gotten a games. There's too many problems there. I think it would be an utter disaster. The poor will get poorer.

We heard that before the 2010 World Cup. I don't know if it's true or not and sure it's what held South Africa back from the 2020 bid, but they haven't gotten a games because they haven't bid since 2004. Let's see what happens when they get their act together and throw their hat into the ring now that the IOC is determined to get there.

But they don't shoot down the country in general. There are many weaknesses that any US bid will have, just like there are many weaknessess to a Canadian bid. My issue was just that Toronto and Canada's weaknesses as a whole get brought forth more.

Probably because there are more posters here from the United States than from Canada (I think).

Fair enough. I personally have never put down Boston or Philadelphia. They are beautiful cities, but I don't think that they have the same international appeal as Toronto or New York City or Chicago or many European cities. And I mentioned Houston because of previous bids from them.

What I really find rediculous is in the USA 2024 forums, how people have speculated so much about NYC, and what their silence so far means. Its almost as if they are desperately hoping that NYC mounts a bid, by trying to turn any talk about NYC into positive signs that NYC will bid. I see the cities lack of response as a disinterest, not a secret underground potential Olympic bid evaluation by the city. But time will tell what happens with them.

Not all of us Americans think that way. In fact, it seems like there's only 1 person that thinks that way and others either feed off that or call him out for it. It's an Olympic bid discussion forum.. we're looking for anything to talk about. It's tough finding content, so the problem is that sometimes we need to invent our own talking points.

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What I really find rediculous is in the USA 2024 forums, how people have speculated so much about NYC, and what their silence so far means. Its almost as if they are desperately hoping that NYC mounts a bid, by trying to turn any talk about NYC into positive signs that NYC will bid. I see the cities lack of response as a disinterest, not a secret underground potential Olympic bid evaluation by the city. But time will tell what happens with them.

Well, that's mainly one of the other regular American members (which has posted here, too) that argues that distinction, which Quaker & I know all too well. And we tend to agree that New York's silence is not very encouraging, but although the other member vehemently disagrees with us. I think it's more the USOC wanting to gauge whether NYC is interested rather than NYC being interested in bidding. And yeah, Houston has mounted bids before, but I don't think that anyone here holds them to any high regard as far as the Olympics are concerned.

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Not all of us Americans think that way. In fact, it seems like there's only 1 person that thinks that way and others either feed off that or call him out for it. It's an Olympic bid discussion forum.. we're looking for anything to talk about. It's tough finding content, so the problem is that sometimes we need to invent our own talking points.

Of course. Speculation is what sparks debate here. I'm pretty new here, but I just wanted to put in my points and I'm glad that I've started some debate lol. I just disagree with that NYC pov.

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OK!

There's a reason why Africa hasn't gotten a games. There's too many problems there. I think it would be an utter disaster. The poor will get poorer.

Didn't stop China from getting the Games, & didn't stop Brazil, either.

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Well, that's mainly one of the other regular American members (which has posted here, too) that argues that distinction, which Quaker & I know all too well. And we tend to agree that New York's silence is not very encouraging, but although the other member vehemently disagrees with us. I think it's more the USOC wanting to gauge whether NYC is interested rather than NYC being interested in bidding. And yeah, Houston has mounted bids before, but I don't think that anyone here holds them to any high regard as far as the Olympics are concerned.

ok. I didn't mean to generalize all of the Americans about the NYC issue.

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OK!

There's a reason why Africa hasn't gotten a games. There's too many problems there. I think it would be an utter disaster. The poor will get poorer.

I disagree with that. South Africa will eventually be ready to host.

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But they don't shoot down the country in general. There are many weaknesses that any US bid will have, just like there are many weaknessess to a Canadian bid. My issue was just that Toronto and Canada's weaknesses as a whole get brought forth more.

Any how many patriotic Canadian's would 'shoot down' their own country? I'm sure not many, if any.

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