COC To Back Possible Toronto 2024 Bid

[intoronto]

This is one of those things where the armchair quarterbacks here tend to over-think these things. I can't imagine too many IOC voters seeing Toronto and thinking "I'm not voting for them.. the population of Canada is dis-proportionate to the number of times they've previously hosted!" So for someone to list the next 3 most populous countries after Canada is fairly irrelevant information.

The IOC is undoubtedly going to take these votes 1 at a time. If Toronto is their most compelling and most capable candidate for 2024, they'll win. If they're not (and I don't think they will be if any or all of the competition we expected submits a bid), they'll lose. But it won't be because of their population.

Agreed. Toronto won't lose because of Canada;s population. I believe Faster mentioned this earlier Toronto will not enter a race it feels like it can't win.

[runningrings]

Really? If I were a Torontonian I could honestly said that aside from feeling excited at the idea of an Olympics in my city in just over a decade, I'd be IMMENSELY apprehensive about the chances. From my perspective, if Toronto was only going to enter an Olympic bid with a genuine belief it could win, I'd say this is not the time. It only takes a potential South African bid, a jilted 2020 candidate (Tokyo or Istanbul, in particular), a compelling US city (Philly, DC, NYC), and Europe, for Toronto to have a hard, Madrid style slog ahead of it.

It's like the 2008 race, Toronto without doubt had the best bid, hands down - but it went up against an immaculate Beijing bid from the start. That is not Toronto's fault, but I don't buy that they chose their fights wisely. Same goes for 1996 - with 1988 and 1976 behind it. (That said, if CNN and Coca Cola were Toronto based I'm sure 1996 would have swayed their way, fair or not).

ALL this aside, Toronto has a right to bid. It's a gutsy move, Olympic bids are that much more involved now compared to what they were in 2001.

PS - When did the COA become the COC? I always thought they went as an Association, not a Committee?

[FYI]

I remember when Blackmun mentioned that the U.S. would not bid unless they felt confident enough that they had a bid that had an excellent chance at winning. Then some on here were making fun like "what, so the U.S. is going to wait 'til they get the 'wink, wink & secret handshake' from the IOC". This is no different.

[ofan]

I'm sick of Toronto constantly being put down on these forums. I feel as though everyone is underestimating Toronto and thinking that its just a small city in a "tiny little country that has no international signifigance", especially in the eyes of Americans. I understand some of the arguments about potential competition hamperng a Toronto bid, but the way that the city's chances are shut down on gbids is insane. This is a world class city and is the most culturally diverse city in the world. It has a lot going for it. Sure I'm biased towards a Toronto Olympics, but all this speculation about Toronto standing no chance in 2024 if rediculous.

[Sir Rols]

I suppose it's just the nature of the forum that when any city's name gets thrown up for discussion, the natural instinct is to look at the challenges and weaknesses of it. As has been mentioned a bit lately, we do tend to over-think these things sometimes.

And remember, when it comes to the USA members, Toronto would probably be viewed as the main challenger in the way (at least from North America).

[ofan]

I suppose it's just the nature of the forum that when any city's name gets thrown up for discussion, the natural instinct is to look at the challenges and weaknesses of it. As has been mentioned a bit lately, we do tend to over-think these things sometimes.

And remember, when it comes to the USA members, Toronto would probably be viewed as the main challenger in the way (at least from North America).

I understand. I just find that Toronto gets more negative speculation than most cities, except maybe Tulsa lol. And I would agree, Toronto is probably the biggest opponent to a USA bid, as it is just as positive for tv as the US is, and the two countries share a very similar culture, especially when you compare Toronto to an American city.

[Athensfan]

Agreed. Toronto won't lose because of Canada;s population. I believe Faster mentioned this earlier Toronto will not enter a race it feels like it can't win.

Just for clarification, those countries are MORE populous than Canada, not less. Of course the IOC won't get out their calculators and crunch numbers, but I think that 4 games in 48 years will "feel" like too much to them where Canada is concerned. They may not be able to put their finger on exactly why. Small population is one reason, poor Summer performance is another, lack of economic muscle is a third.

Look at the way that Italy, France, Spain and Japan have been limited in numbers of Olympic hostings. Those countries are more populous, stronger economically and better athletically than Canada, yet Canada is already ahead of each of them in terms of the frequency of relatively recent hosting. I my opinion, 2024 would put Canada too far out of balance in comparison. I do believe the IOC will feel this and I think population will be one contributing factor, though it may play more of a visceral role in the IOC's response than a quantitative, cognitive one.

[Athensfan]

For that matter you could also consider, China, Russia, the UK, Germany and Korea. All of them are larger, stronger economically and better athletically, but all have hosted fewer Games in recent memory than Canada. That's without adding 2024 to the equation.

[dave199]

You never know how many cities will actually submit an actual bid. Toronto will be a strong contender regardless and if its only a field of 3 cities again on the shortlist Toronto stands an excellent shot. Did anyone predict a watered down field for 2020 back in 2009? Just sayin'

[FYI]

Well, that's precisely what's being said, so IDK why all the panties in a bind here. If the 2024 field turns out as piddly as the 2020 one, then yeah, there's a good shot there. Especially if the other contenders aren't that great. But then again, if those other two happen to be South Africa & Paris, then Toronto's chances don't seem that great anymore.

And IDK why some have to equate the challenges of a Toronto bid mainly coming from Americans. Runningrings is Australian & has the same POV that I & Athensfan does. Even without a U.S. 2024, I'd still say the same depeding on who the other bidders were.

[ofan]

Just for clarification, those countries are MORE populous than Canada, not less. Of course the IOC won't get out their calculators and crunch numbers, but I think that 4 games in 48 years will "feel" like too much to them where Canada is concerned. They may not be able to put their finger on exactly why. Small population is one reason, poor Summer performance is another, lack of economic muscle is a third.

Look at the way that Italy, France, Spain and Japan have been limited in numbers of Olympic hostings. Those countries are more populous, stronger economically and better athletically than Canada, yet Canada is already ahead of each of them in terms of the frequency of relatively recent hosting. I my opinion, 2024 would put Canada too far out of balance in comparison. I do believe the IOC will feel this and I think population will be one contributing factor, though it may play more of a visceral role in the IOC's response than a quantitative, cognitive one.

Poor summer performance? 18 medals is not a POOR summer performance. A poor summer performance is much less than 18 medals. I would say Canada is average at the Summer Games, not poor by any stretch of the imagination. And btw, Canada had more medals than Spain in London, so they are not better than Canada sporting-wise, probably even. And Spain is stronger economically than Canada? Seriously?

[runningrings]

You never know how many cities will actually submit an actual bid. Toronto will be a strong contender regardless and if its only a field of 3 cities again on the shortlist Toronto stands an excellent shot. Did anyone predict a watered down field for 2020 back in 2009? Just sayin'

Hypothetically, if Toronto was a contender for 2020, I'd put its chances third behind Tokyo and Istanbul, but ahead of Madrid on economic grounds. I'd base this on the proximity to Vancouver. Hardly an excellent shot. I predict chances for 2024 to be marginally better due the passing of time. I really do think only the US, and its economic swagger, can really argue North America's time over potential European and South African options. In terms of television ratings, North America will be well served by 2016.

However, I'd be interested to see if Toronto does table a 2008 style plan. In a post-London context, it appears quite expensive? If it could be executed, I can't think of any US candidate that could propose such a majestic venue plan.

[intoronto]

For that matter you could also consider, China, Russia, the UK, Germany and Korea. All of them are larger, stronger economically and better athletically, but all have hosted fewer Games in recent memory than Canada. That's without adding 2024 to the equation.

Funny thing is you bring up winter has being a hamper to a Toronto 2024 bid yet all those nations you mentioned will host after Canada, and Germany is considered a favourite for 2022. So No.

Stronger economically? Since when does having the strongest economy in the g8 after the recession considered weaker economically? Finishing 13th in London on overall medals isn't too bad, especially considering it has been raising since Athens 2004.

You and all the American posters no it. Toronto will and can defeat an American bid. Boston, Phili, Dallas come on, are these cities going to put up a challenge? What a joke. The USA can go drown in its $1 trillion in debt.

Just for clarification, those countries are MORE populous than Canada, not less. Of course the IOC won't get out their calculators and crunch numbers, but I think that 4 games in 48 years will "feel" like too much to them where Canada is concerned. They may not be able to put their finger on exactly why. Small population is one reason, poor Summer performance is another, lack of economic muscle is a third.

Look at the way that Italy, France, Spain and Japan have been limited in numbers of Olympic hostings. Those countries are more populous, stronger economically and better athletically than Canada, yet Canada is already ahead of each of them in terms of the frequency of relatively recent hosting. I my opinion, 2024 would put Canada too far out of balance in comparison. I do believe the IOC will feel this and I think population will be one contributing factor, though it may play more of a visceral role in the IOC's response than a quantitative, cognitive one.

Athletically overall Canada in both winter and summer (after all you consider both winter and summer as one) Canada won more medals in 2010/2012 combined then what Spain France and Japan won. So "athletically" speaking that would be incorrect.

We are speaking about a continent that has two countries that can host to another one which has multiple ones. Apples and oranges imo.

[runningrings]

I'm sick of Toronto constantly being put down on these forums. I feel as though everyone is underestimating Toronto and thinking that its just a small city in a "tiny little country that has no international signifigance", especially in the eyes of Americans. I understand some of the arguments about potential competition hamperng a Toronto bid, but the way that the city's chances are shut down on gbids is insane. This is a world class city and is the most culturally diverse city in the world. It has a lot going for it. Sure I'm biased towards a Toronto Olympics, but all this speculation about Toronto standing no chance in 2024 if rediculous.

Oh, boohoo. Toronto isn't constantly being out down- maybe you're just not hearing what you want to hear? Any city, from any country would have a hard time gaining support when it appears to make claims of being deserving a fourth Olympics in under 50 years because "the world loves us." History shows that a great plan from a great city just doesn't always cut it ; Toronto learnt this for 2008 and I doubt 2024 will be much different. The IOC is proven to go for financial security, sentimentalism /emotion and new frontiers - Toronto isn't particularly strong in any of those areas. That's a BIG challenge, only years out of 2010, and *only* under 40 years since 1976 (let's not forget that).

This isn't an attack on Toronto as a city, its critical consideration of what it is asking, and how likely it is that this plan will be realised. As an urban planner, I'm in awe of Toronto, its handsdown the standup North American city in most fields. I can understand that in light of its growth over the past few decades that an Olympic Games would be a good fit, I just can't see it have any real chance of being realised in the 2020's if you look at the picture holistically.

[FYI]

Oh, boohoo. Toronto isn't constantly being out down- maybe you're just not hearing what you want to hear?

Exactly, & it brings some of these Canadian's to make some provacative & offensive comments. Almost akin to when their city was in the running for the 2008 Games.

[intoronto]

Really? If I were a Torontonian I could honestly said that aside from feeling excited at the idea of an Olympics in my city in just over a decade, I'd be IMMENSELY apprehensive about the chances. From my perspective, if Toronto was only going to enter an Olympic bid with a genuine belief it could win, I'd say this is not the time. It only takes a potential South African bid, a jilted 2020 candidate (Tokyo or Istanbul, in particular), a compelling US city (Philly, DC, NYC), and Europe, for Toronto to have a hard, Madrid style slog ahead of it.

It's like the 2008 race, Toronto without doubt had the best bid, hands down - but it went up against an immaculate Beijing bid from the start. That is not Toronto's fault, but I don't buy that they chose their fights wisely. Same goes for 1996 - with 1988 and 1976 behind it. (That said, if CNN and Coca Cola were Toronto based I'm sure 1996 would have swayed their way, fair or not).

ALL this aside, Toronto has a right to bid. It's a gutsy move, Olympic bids are that much more involved now compared to what they were in 2001.

PS - When did the COA become the COC? I always thought they went as an Association, not a Committee?

When an Olympic bid comes along people will off course be we have a chance. I don't think Toronto will bid if they assess their chances as being not good. This is likely why the report has been postponed till September after the IOC decision. Come on Phili or Dc as being compelling? funny lol. Bring in NYC and Chicago I can definitely say they'd be the favourite, but its not looking good atm.

In 2024 it doesn't look like one candidate will stand out and assert themselves immediately to win, like Beijing or Rio. Durban on its first shot will probably not win .

Ps. It's always been the COC.

[runningrings]

Funny thing is you bring up winter has being a hamper to a Toronto 2024 bid yet all those nations you mentioned will host after Canada, and Germany is considered a favourite for 2022. So No.

Stronger economically? Since when does having the strongest economy in the g8 after the recession considered weaker economically? Finishing 13th in London on overall medals isn't too bad, especially considering it has been raising since Athens 2004.

.

What tally are you using ? Canada placed 36th in London, with one gold medal, and 17 others.

[intoronto]

Oh, boohoo. Toronto isn't constantly being out down- maybe you're just not hearing what you want to hear? Any city, from any country would have a hard time gaining support when it appears to make claims of being deserving a fourth Olympics in under 50 years because "the world loves us." History shows that a great plan from a great city just doesn't always cut it ; Toronto learnt this for 2008 and I doubt 2024 will be much different. The IOC is proven to go for financial security, sentimentalism /emotion and new frontiers - Toronto isn't particularly strong in any of those areas. That's a BIG challenge, only years out of 2010, and *only* under 40 years since 1976 (let's not forget that).

This isn't an attack on Toronto as a city, its critical consideration of what it is asking, and how likely it is that this plan will be realised. As an urban planner, I'm in awe of Toronto, its handsdown the standup North American city in most fields. I can understand that in light of its growth over the past few decades that an Olympic Games would be a good fit, I just can't see it have any real chance of being realised in the 2020's if you look at the picture holistically.

Financial security - definitely would be a strong point. Canada will emerge from a deficit in 2015 something no other country wanting to bid can claim. 2024 would be 48 years after Montreal.

Yes Toronto will have a difficult chance of convincing the IOC to host after for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day anything is possible.

What tally are you using ? Canada placed 36th in London, with one gold medal, and 17 others.

Finishing 13th in London on overall medals isn't too bad,

[monorail]

I don't think Vancouver is such the deal breaker here as most make it out to be. At the end of the day, if other countries such as Italy and France don't bid for 2024, you can't fault Toronto going for it because one thinks it should go to one of those European countries or South Africa, which I think has been immensely over hyped beyond belief.

[Sir Rols]

What do the Canadians want people to say? "Oh, if Toronto's in, they're hot favourites and will be dead certs to win"? Apart from that fact that it's a very hypethetical race to begin with, every bid carries some baggage - and even at this early stage Canada's recent hostings will be baggage. Can it overcome that? Possibly, but we'll need to see who it lines up against to get any feel.

These are just the starting shots if this ends up as a race with the US and Canada up against each other. I'd expect we'll get a lot more heated rivalry between members from the two here if it does go on in earnest. But I also tend to agree with the sentiment that the whole thing about Canada's or the US's chances decline a hell of a lot and become moot if they end up lining up against Durban or Paris.

[intoronto]

I don't think Vancouver is such the deal breaker here as most make it out to be. At the end of the day, if other countries such as Italy and France don't bid for 2024, you can't fault Toronto going for it because one thinks it should go to one of those European countries or South Africa, which I think has been immensely over hyped beyond belief.

It is the last frontier, but with Durban I doubt it on its first try.

[Sir Rols]

Finishing 13th in London on overall medals isn't too bad,

Yeah, but you and the yanks are about the only ones who do their rankings by total medals. Out here in the rest of the world, we all use the gold standard.

[intoronto]

Yeah, but you and the yanks are about the only ones who do their rankings by total medals. Out here in the rest of the world, we all use the gold standard.

Yea but overall medals shows the total strength of a nation. If a country wins two gold medal and Canada wins 18 and one gold I disagree that country is athletically better.

[dave199]

What do the Canadians want people to say? "Oh, if Toronto's in, they're hot favourites and will be dead certs to win"? Apart from that fact that it's a very hypethetical race to begin with, every bid carries some baggage - and even at this early stage Canada's recent hostings will be baggage. Can it overcome that? Possibly, but we'll need to see who it lines up against to get any feel.

I agree. Gotta play the time game here and wait until things become more clear. Other cities can talk all they want but unless more concrete info comes out we can't judge the full potential of the competition.

[FYI]

If "at the end of the day, anything is possible", then certainly a sentimental favorite like Durban can win on it's first try