COC To Back Possible Toronto 2024 Bid

[zekekelso]

>> To me, there's nothing in there that signals "much left to be done." I'm sure there IS much left to be done,

The bit about RSA's governement ruling out a 2020 bid is the big clue.

[FYI]

Many nations, including the U.S., France & Canada, also ruled out 2020 bids. But are now looking into 2024, so what's your point.

[Soaring]

If 2024 consisted of just Madrid, Tokyo, LA and Toronto as candidates... it would be a very dull race IMO. We need Paris and/or Durban to spice things up! I don't think Durban would be a shoe-in for winning 2024, but it might be good experience for them to test the waters.

No new frontier city has won on their first bid in 30+ years, and the 80's were such a pecular time for the Olympics, and times are different now...

If the IOC was willing to pass on Rio three times, and Beijing once, they could overlook Durban if there are glaring issues. But who knows. The IOC was sooooo eager to award Rio the 2016 Games, eventhough just four years earlier it failed to even make the shortlist. A lot can happen fast, but South Africa is not Brazil, and Durban is not Rio. They are apples and oranges.

[dave199]

A lot can happen fast, but South Africa is not Brazil, and Durban is not Rio. They are apples and oranges.

I totally agree with that. Plus Brazil's growing emerging economy is on a different level than SA. Both had/has problems but the problems in SA outweigh the rest.

[FYI]

This wouldn't be South Africa's first Olympic bid, though. They've already tried once for the 2004 Games, so 2024 would be a second attempt. Sure, it would be with a different city, but other countries have won trying with different cities. Australia & the U.K. come to mind. And perhaps Rio didn't make the 2012 short-list for a couple of different obvious reasons. One, the 2007 PanAms weren't on Rio's resume yet, & second, 2012 was already filled with heavyweight candidates & Rio's appeal just wasn't strong enough to overcome any of them.

[Sir Rols]

Hmmm. I'm used to threads about just about any city turning into discussions of Toronto. But this seems to be a Toronto thread that's turned into one about Durban. There's probably a message in that!

[FYI]

What's interesting, is that some of the Canadians like accusing "the Americans" of feeling "threatened" by a Toronto bid & that's why we're so hard on their city. But I could say the same thing, that the Canadian's really feel threatened over a South African bid & that's why they are so hard on them.

[Sir Rols]

Exactly, you can always tell which bid is considered the main threat - that's the one each of the others try to pick apart the hardest.

[dave199]

What's interesting, is that some of the Canadians like accusing "the Americans" of feeling "threatened" by a Toronto bid & that's why we're so hard on their city. But I could say the same thing, that the Canadian's really feel threatened over a South African bid & that's why they are so hard on them.

An American bid if the right city is chosen would be more threatening.

[intoronto]

An American bid if the right city is chosen would be more threatening.

Exactly.

Or even Paris.

Durban on its first shot would be borderline being shortlisted.

[FYI]

An American bid if the right city is chosen would be more threatening.

Durban would be a threat even to a New York bid. Durban's biggest challenge is to get on that short-list, & once they do, beware cuz then it'll be virtually game over, cuz the campaign from then on out will be about emotive appeal. Just look at Rio & how Lula managed that for them.

South Africa appears to be cautious which is probably why they refrained from 2020. And like Athensfan mentioned earlier, which I agree with, they'll likely won't bid unless they're sure that they have a credible bid to put forth. And if they do, then eveyone better be on the lookout.

[baron-pierreIV]

Durban would be a threat even to a New York bid. Durban's biggest challenge is to get on that short-list, & once they do, beware cuz then it'll be virtually game over, cuz the campaign from then on out will be about emotive appeal. Just look at Rio & how Lula managed that for them.

South Africa appears to be cautious which is probably why they refrained from 2020. And like Athensfan mentioned earlier, which I agree with, they'll likely won't bid unless they're sure that they have a credible bid to put forth. And if they do, then eveyone better be on the lookout.

They know what it takes to win and PUT on a successful mega-event. MiGod, they did it with 2010. Do people really think they are such dumbclux as NOT to know how to snag and stage another mega-event??

[Sir Rols]

I'll admit it - I was a bit of a Durban sceptic when we were all in the preliminary discussions about 2020. I did think it was too big a risk for the IOC to take before they saw how their leap of faith with Rio turned out. But that was before the likes of Rogge and others didn't seem to be just encouraging South Africa, but were actively badgering them as strongly as they could to throw their hat in. I've seen Rogge play the diplomat card and encourage all and sundry to bid, but the "encouragement" they were giving South Africa was a totally new order of magnitude.

At the end of the day, I think it was probably good for SA's/Durban's chances for 2024 that they did stick to their guns and sit 2020 out. It shows if nothing else that they're not just blindly grasping at anything they can get (ditto with the Commonwealth Games). They may or may not enter yet, but if they do, and if they do enough to make the short list, I'd definitely say emotion will sweep all, all bets are off, and the race is over.

As to a possible 2022 Commies - once again, there's no sure bet they'll go for it. If they had to choose, I'd bet they'd go for the big one and let the Commies alone for a few more rounds without them. But even if they did, I wouldn't see it as a negative. Like the FIFA Brazil 2014 WC, it's a great test event/guarantee that they'll get their sh!t together for the IOC's big show after (and there were plenty here before the 2016 vote who were arguing the WC and the SOGs as just too much for Brazil to manage together in too short a time). And, hey, when there's so much focus on Olympic "legacy" - well, what could be better use of facilities than to have them for two big events around the same time.

[FYI]

I'll admit it - I was a bit of a Durban sceptic when we were all in the preliminary discussions about 2020. I did think it was too big a risk for the IOC to take before they saw how their leap of faith with Rio turned out. But that was before the likes of Rogge and others didn't seem to be just encouraging South Africa, but were actively badgering them as strongly as they could to throw their hat in. I've seen Rogge play the diplomat card and encourage all and sundry to bid, but the "encouragement" they were giving South Africa was a totally new order of magnitude.

Exactly, it's not his usual Cuba, Kenya-like lip-service when he talks about South Africa. He talks it up & virtually says that it's inevitable that South Africa will get to host. Unlike his normal "oh, yeah. Such & such place 'could' make a good host" brush-off speil.

[baron-pierreIV]

It's too bad, we had a Durban regular here who seemed to have a good ear to his local turf. Haven't seen or heard from him in awhile. Also, Rafiq who was doing the Capetown beat -- we haven't heard from him either. WOnder where those guys are??

[runningrings]

I see no reason why the 2022 Commonwealth Games couldn't happen around the time of an Olympics. It could work in a similar manner to the 1986 Asian Games in Seoul, and then the Olympics two years later.

As for all the doubt that flies up about Durban, if the will is there, and the plan isn't totally shaking to the host economy, then why not? Frankly, I think it could be quite refreshing for the Olympics to have another Barcelona success story. We've had a string of alpha-capital cities since Sydney, up until 2020 (all the 2020 candidates are the alpha city of their respective countries), so think a new story might be nice. A city that can be truly transformed and defined by its Olympic experience.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

I do think they'll go for the Commonwealth Games cause they would pretty much have that in the bag but I think they might wait til 2028 for an olympic bid

[Lord David]

For Toronto, a Commonwealth Games just 2 years before the Olympics is a no go.

Unless the proposed 100,000 seater stadium and other key facilities are built for the 2022 Commonwealth Games (where when they bid for the 2024 Olympics they will note that all key venues will be completed well in advanced by 2021, and have the Commonwealth Games (and other sporting events for the non Commonwealth Games sports) as part of the test events program), I don't see a Commonwealth Games where an Olympics occurs 2 years after viable.

They could use the Commonwealth Games as a staging ground, building some venues and perhaps an expandable 60,000 seater or so main stadium.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

I was talking about Durban, sorry this thread seems to have changed cities.

[Soaring]

I'll admit it - I was a bit of a Durban sceptic when we were all in the preliminary discussions about 2020. I did think it was too big a risk for the IOC to take before they saw how their leap of faith with Rio turned out. But that was before the likes of Rogge and others didn't seem to be just encouraging South Africa, but were actively badgering them as strongly as they could to throw their hat in. I've seen Rogge play the diplomat card and encourage all and sundry to bid, but the "encouragement" they were giving South Africa was a totally new order of magnitude.

At the end of the day, I think it was probably good for SA's/Durban's chances for 2024 that they did stick to their guns and sit 2020 out. It shows if nothing else that they're not just blindly grasping at anything they can get (ditto with the Commonwealth Games). They may or may not enter yet, but if they do, and if they do enough to make the short list, I'd definitely say emotion will sweep all, all bets are off, and the race is over.

That's funny. I seemed to have gone the opposite route. I was once convinced that South Africa was unbeatable at any bid they put forward, but now as the WC freshness has worn off, and doubts about Durban have emerged, and RSA's "will we or won't we bid" shenanigans for 2020 have left me to question their chances for 2024. I have no doubt that South Africa will host an Olympics in the next few cycles, but I don't quite believe Durban can pull off a win with their first bid.

I also take Rogge's behavior toward RSA during the 2020 application season with a huge grain of salt. You knew that he was foaming at the mouth to have his lasting legacy as "bringing the Games to new horizons". He is on his way out now, and his main hope should be that Istanbul pulls out a win.

Paris would also be very emotive during a 2024 bid.

What does Toronto have to offer against those two options?

[Sir Rols]

Well, if I had my 'druthers, my personal preference would be to see South Africa go for the 2022 Commies and sit out 2024 (let Paris have that) and then go for 2028. Not that the North Americans would like that sequence, though.

I think we can probably all agree on one thing, at least until whether we know if they'll bid or not, Durban/South Africa will probably be the main talking point here.

[FYI]

Well, like was mentioned earlier, South Africa probably won't bid unless they know that they have a bid that can win, pretty much what the USOC is gauging right now also.

And sure, Rogge probably wanted an exit legacy, but Rio won under his watch & to a lesser extent PyeongChang. And Samaranch finally got his China wish. So surely the next IOC president, whether that's Bach or not, will want one of his own, & the only one that will be left is Africa.

I'm sure if/when South Africa bids, the IOC will know, especially if their plan is credible, that they won't be able to ignore them for too long, cuz I doubt that they'll keep coming back over & over again the like of the Spaniards & Turks. I think that their ambivalence is more of a cautious one to get on the short-list. Once they're able to do that, all bets are off then.

[Athensfan]

2032 seems to me like the longest North America will wait. That's 36 years after Atlanta. If the US gets 2026, I think Toronto's got a great shot at 2032.

[runningrings]

What does Toronto have to offer against those two options?

Blahblah/ waterfront//blahblah/ multiculturalism//blahblah// CN Tower// blahblah // first Olympics in Ontario//blahblah.....

2032 seems to me like the longest North America will wait. That's 36 years after Atlanta. If the US gets 2026, I think Toronto's got a great shot at 2032.

Pretty well my thoughts. No matter the moves of the US in the 2020s, I think Toronto would be a shoe in for 2032/36, even if 2024 went to NYC, I think Toronto would still have a reasonable shot at 2032.

[intoronto]

Blahblah/ waterfront//blahblah/ multiculturalism//blahblah// CN Tower// blahblah // first Olympics in Ontario//blahblah.....

Waterfront completion/regeneration of an area, Multiculturalism, solid venue plan/