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dchang11

New York 2024?

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dchang, you seem very interested in potential venue plans for Olympic bids

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Here's a little template of possible venue locations. Fill in where you think each event is suitable for its location.

Athletic Venues

Archery

Badminton

Baseball

Basketball

Beach Volleyball

Boxing

BMX

Canoe/Kayak

Cycling

Diving

Equestrian

Fencing

Field Hockey

Golf

Gymnastics

Handball

Judo -

Marathon

Modern Pentathlon

Mountain Biking

Road Cycling –

Rowing

Rugby 7s

Sailing

Shooting

Soccer

Softball

Swimming

Synchronized Swimming

Table Tennis

Taekwondo

Tennis

Track and Field

Triathlon -

Volleyball

Water Polo

Weightlifting -

Non-Athletic Venues

Olympic Village -

Media Village -

International Broadcast Center/Main Press Center -

Offices of the International Olympic Committee -



dchang, you seem very interested in potential venue plans for Olympic bids

dude im the biggest map geek around...and besides i think the forums are getting out of whack so i decided to take a different approach

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dude im the biggest map geek around...and besides i think the forums are getting out of whack so i decided to take a different approach

You're not alone. I'm love maps as well.

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Obviously this is all hypothetical since there's virtually no apparent interest from New York in an Olympic bid at this point. If you're going to do a venue plan, it probably needs to start with where the main stadium is. That's the biggest roadblock towards an Olympic bid since the plans for 2012 are no longer going to work.

And dchang.. if you're going to use that as your template, I'm curious to know why you still have baseball and softball on there

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I remember some of NY's 2012 proposals and thought some of them were unworkable. For example, the idea of placing the whitewater competition venue in Flushing Meadow Corona Park was wrong. A city park planned and built in the 1930's as the site for the 1939 NY World's Fair, its mission is to serve the residents of Queens. At over 1,200 acres, it is the second largest park in the City and one of the most utilized. The idea of surrendering an enormous chunk of it for the Olympics flew in the face of the objective of two world's fairs--to create enough revenue to build a permanent park for a sometimes forgotten borough--Queens. The Park has already lost land to the USTA Center and there is a proposal to build a soccer stadium and that is facing significant opposition from Queens residents.

Another thought, NYC is not showng much interest in another bid. It may be partly related to the fact that New York State continues to have significant financial difficulties. It cannot afford to be involved in such a proposal when it has school districts nearing bankruptcy reductions in fire, police and health services as a result of the long recession of 2008. 2024 is a long time away but the mindset to bid for the games probably is not there.

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Another thought, NYC is not showng much interest in another bid. It may be partly related to the fact that New York State continues to have significant financial difficulties. It cannot afford to be involved in such a proposal when it has school districts nearing bankruptcy reductions in fire, police and health services as a result of the long recession of 2008. 2024 is a long time away but the mindset to bid for the games probably is not there.

The problem isn't just financial. If a city like New York is going to be thrust into the Olympic bid process, there needs to be some sort of plan that works within the fabric of the city. The 2012 bid had elements of that. Any future bid, 2024 or otherwise, would need to be the same in that regard.

In the past couple of years, there's been talk reflecting back on the 2012 bid debating the merits of what it meant to New York. There are more than a couple of projects (i.e. the extension of the 7 train to the Javits Center) that were spurred on by the Olympic bid. A couple of people have theorized that bidding for the Olympics and losing might have actually been a good thing for the city (the cost of bidding notwithstanding since it takes a lot of money)..

For New Yorkers, Olympic Loss May Be a Victory

How New York City Won the Olympics

So that's what a bid needs to look for. How will New York be a better place if they were awarded an Olympics? London answered that question for their Olympics be revitalizing a part of the city. What would New York's story be? And keep in mind also.. there are always other projects and civic improvements going on. That needs to be factored into the equation as well. It's been suggested a few times here that Flushing Meadows Corona Park would made for a good hub of Olympic activity. Well, other city officials have their eyes on that area as well to potentially use it as the site for an MLS stadium. That project wouldn't have to wait 11 years, much less the 4 more until New York would even know if they've been chosen to host. That's what New York (not to mention most other prospective U.S. bid cities) is up against. More power to the person who comes along that is willing to tackle that challenge.

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NYC has do do something with pizzaz...not just a hodgepodge of mostly existing venues.

How about we build the athletes' village on Governor's Island, build a main stadium on the Brooklyn waterfront just across from GI with new connecting to where Barclay's Center is? The main stadium would be the converted to a NFL stadium for the...wait for it... Brooklyn Raiders!

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Isn't this just a speculation thread about potential venues?

Sure looks that way. This is definitely more a game of designing a very hypothetical venue plan rather than discussing the actual goings on in New York. Yes, this all barely qualifies as speculation since it's more based in fantasy than anything. Me personally.. I'm fine with that and happy to play along. But yea, no one reading this thread should confuse any of the discussion here of venue plans with actual factual information.

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If New York wants that wow factor, they should go (even if it will be at the disapproval of a lot of peeps/organizations) with my idea of land reclamation on Piers 25 to Piers 64.

This reclaimed land will have:

- The main stadium at 80,000+, in a conventional athletics stadium design, which will be downsized to 30,000, for use by a 2nd New York region Major League Soccer team (which is the only league in the city which lacks local rivalry).

- Athlete's Village

- Aquatics Center (at the very least the main pool, at up to 20,000 capacity)

- A temporary Waterfront rowing/canoeing course

- Within walking distance to the existing Javits Center, which will not be entirely redeveloped (should the Aqueduct Racetrack become a new exhibition complex), which will serve as the Main Media Center

- Walking distance from Madison Square Garden, which will host Basketball Finals and Gymnastics

The Barclays Center and Prudential Center will host Handball and Indoor Volleyball. A new convention Center built on the site of the Aqueduct Racetrack will host a majority of indoor sports, except for Fencing and Boxing, which could be held in the historic Armories in New York (like Boxing Preliminaries at 369th Regiment Armory at the Bronx)

Should at least 1 of the old arenas (Nassau Coliseum, Izod Center) still exist, one will hold Basketball Preliminaries. Otherwise, Louis Brown Athletic Center will be used, alongside Rutgers Stadium (which should serve football preliminaries anyways), which will be the furthest venues locally. An Aquatics Center on Rutgers University could serve Waterpolo Preliminaries. Perhaps even the whole Modern Pentathlon event.

Yankees Stadium and Citi Field will host baseball, should that return to the games. Otherwise, they won't serve as a sporting venue, but could serve as live sites.

Other Football Preliminaries sites would be Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC and Atlanta.

If this plan were proposed, it would be very enticing.

2024 would be an ideal year for New York to bid for. After all, the Olympics would be the highlight of 400 years since the first settlement of New York.

Edited by Lord David

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I

Yankees Stadium and Citi Field will host baseball, should that return to the games. Otherwise, they won't serve as a sporting venue, but could serve as live sites.

.

I don't know squat about Rugby. Could you hold it in baseball stadiums?

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I don't know squat about Rugby. Could you hold it in baseball stadiums?

I don't know much about Rugby either, but I assume the field is the same (or similar) size as for soccer and American football. So they could definitely use Yankee Stadium or Citi Field as a rugby venue (although I don't know that either the Yankees or the Mets would be too happy with their playing fields getting chewed up for 2 weeks while they're on the road.

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If New York wants that wow factor, they should go (even if it will be at the disapproval of a lot of peeps/organizations) with my idea of land reclamation on Piers 25 to Piers 64.

This reclaimed land will have:

- The main stadium at 80,000+, in a conventional athletics stadium design, which will be downsized to 30,000, for use by a 2nd New York region Major League Soccer team (which is the only league in the city which lacks local rivalry).

- Athlete's Village

- Aquatics Center (at the very least the main pool, at up to 20,000 capacity)

- A temporary Waterfront rowing/canoeing course

- Within walking distance to the existing Javits Center, which will not be entirely redeveloped (should the Aqueduct Racetrack become a new exhibition complex), which will serve as the Main Media Center

- Walking distance from Madison Square Garden, which will host Basketball Finals and Gymnastics

.........

If this plan were proposed, it would be very enticing.

2024 would be an ideal year for New York to bid for. After all, the Olympics would be the highlight of 400 years since the first settlement of New York.

I'm with baron on this one.. you really sound like you have never visited New York before and don't know too much about the city.

I've seen you propose this one before. You should have stopped yourself when you said that it will be met with disapproval. How'd that one work out for New York City last time?

I'll say the same thing that was said last time.. that's not land you'd be reclaimed. That's water you're looking to build on. And a lot of water at that. I can only imagine how expensive a project like that would be. That pretty much makes it a non-starter right there. Let alone that you're essentially asking for an 80,000 seat stadium to be built on a platform over water. I don't think so. Beyond that though, perhaps you're familiar with this thing called Hurricane Sandy. The storm battered that edge of Manhattan by the Hudson River pretty badly. I would like to hope we won't see a storm of that magnitude for a long long time to come, that's a dangerous proposition to put that much money into building up the waterfront right there. It's simply not going to be NYC's priority.

2024 may be an ideal year for NYC to bid in theory, but the likelihood of it happening is extremely low right now. If New York is going to throw its hat into the Olympic bidding ring, you're more likely looking at 2028 or later.

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Athletic Venues



Archery – Prospect Park Brooklyn


Badminton – Javitz Convention Center Manhattan


Baseball – Yankee Stadium The Bronx


Basketball – Madison Square Garden Manhattan


Beach Volleyball – Coney Island Brooklyn


Boxing – Radio City Music Hall Manhattan


BMX – Aquaduct Race Track Queens


Canoe/Kayak – Staten Island Whitewater Park Staten Island


Cycling – Brooklyn Waterfront Velodrome Brooklyn


Diving – Aquatics Arena within Navy Yard Brooklyn


Equestrian – Belmont Park Queens/Nassau County


Fencing – Times Square Theater Manhattan


Field Hockey – Wein Stadium Manhattan


Golf – Winged Foot Golf Club Westchester County, NY


Gymnastics – Barclays Center Brooklyn


Handball – 168th Street Armory Manhattan


Judo - Javitz Convention Center Manhattan


Marathon – Modified NYC Marathon Route Citywide


Modern Pentathlon – Staten Island Pentathlon Center Staten Island


Mountain Biking – Staten Island Greenway Staten Island


Road Cycling – Loop Starting in South Brooklyn, North into Queens and then terminating in Grand Army Plaza Brooklyn


Rowing – Meadow Lake, Flushing Meadows Queens


Rugby 7s – RedBull Arena New Jersey


Sailing – Breezy Point Marina Queens


Shooting – Rodman's Neck Shooting Range The Bronx


Soccer – Metlife Stadium, Citifield, Flushing Meadows MLS Stadium, RFK Stadium, Gillette Stadium


Softball – MCU Ballpark Brooklyn


Swimming – Aquatics Arena within Navy Yard Brooklyn


Synchronized Swimming – Aquatics Arena within Navy Yard Brooklyn


Table Tennis – Javitz Convention Center Manhattan


Taekwondo – Javitz Convention Center Manhattan


Tennis – USTA Queens


Track and Field – Brooklyn Navy Yard Site Brooklyn


Triathlon - Central Park Manhattan


Volleyball – Prudential Center New Jersey


Water Polo – Aquatics Arena within Navy Yard Brooklyn


Weightlifting - Hammerstein Ballroom Manhattan



Non-Athletic Venues


Olympic Village - Governor's Island


Media Village - Red Hook Waterfront


International Broadcast Center/Main Press Center - Steiner Studios


Offices of the International Olympic Committee - Downtown Brooklyn


Edited by Astoriaguy

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Gymnastics – Barclays Center Brooklyn

In it's original design, long before it was constructed, Barclays would have been able to host gymnastics. Now it's designed around basketball, so it doesn't have the necessary floor area. Barclays would be better suited for basketball, and MSG for gymnastics.

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In it's original design, long before it was constructed, Barclays would have been able to host gymnastics. Now it's designed around basketball, so it doesn't have the necessary floor area. Barclays would be better suited for basketball, and MSG for gymnastics.

Barclays in its Hockey Configuration will have more than enough room and did host a Gymnastics event last December. Basketball would have a better historical fit in MSG.

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In it's original design, long before it was constructed, Barclays would have been able to host gymnastics. Now it's designed around basketball, so it doesn't have the necessary floor area. Barclays would be better suited for basketball, and MSG for gymnastics.

Not true. The New York islanders are playing there in a couple years.

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I've been at Barclays twice including for a gymnastics event. The arena was very much designed with basketball in mind. True the Islanders are moving there, but the configuration is very ill-suited for hockey. You could hold gymnastics there and have enough floor space, but you'll be losing a lot of seats and the sightlines may not be so solid. Think Salt Lake Ice Center, speaking of arenas meant for basketball.

In general, the largest arena a host city has will be utilized for gymnastics, not basketball. In New York's case, that means MSG. It's a more sensible fit to put gymnastics there and hold basketball at Barclays.

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If New York wants that wow factor, they should go (even if it will be at the disapproval of a lot of peeps/organizations) with my idea of land reclamation on Piers 25 to Piers 64.

This reclaimed land will have:

- The main stadium at 80,000+, in a conventional athletics stadium design, which will be downsized to 30,000, for use by a 2nd New York region Major League Soccer team (which is the only league in the city which lacks local rivalry).

- Athlete's Village

- Aquatics Center (at the very least the main pool, at up to 20,000 capacity)

- A temporary Waterfront rowing/canoeing course

- Within walking distance to the existing Javits Center, which will not be entirely redeveloped (should the Aqueduct Racetrack become a new exhibition complex), which will serve as the Main Media Center

- Walking distance from Madison Square Garden, which will host Basketball Finals and Gymnastics

The Barclays Center and Prudential Center will host Handball and Indoor Volleyball. A new convention Center built on the site of the Aqueduct Racetrack will host a majority of indoor sports, except for Fencing and Boxing, which could be held in the historic Armories in New York (like Boxing Preliminaries at 369th Regiment Armory at the Bronx)

Should at least 1 of the old arenas (Nassau Coliseum, Izod Center) still exist, one will hold Basketball Preliminaries. Otherwise, Louis Brown Athletic Center will be used, alongside Rutgers Stadium (which should serve football preliminaries anyways), which will be the furthest venues locally. An Aquatics Center on Rutgers University could serve Waterpolo Preliminaries. Perhaps even the whole Modern Pentathlon event.

Yankees Stadium and Citi Field will host baseball, should that return to the games. Otherwise, they won't serve as a sporting venue, but could serve as live sites.

Other Football Preliminaries sites would be Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC and Atlanta.

If this plan were proposed, it would be very enticing.

2024 would be an ideal year for New York to bid for. After all, the Olympics would be the highlight of 400 years since the first settlement of New York.

This is ridiculous . You cannot be serious? Any NY plan that ignores Corona Park/Flushing Meadows as the main centre of activity isn't feasible. There is no way Manhattan Island could handle that much activity. The bulk of new venues would have to go in Queens and Brooklyn. I could even see a scenario where many events in an NYC Olympics were "outsourced" to New Jersey.

This is perhaps why increasingly a city like Chicago, or even DC and Philadelphia are more appealing to me as next US host.. even though Chicago says no.

Perhaps there is a reason why NYC has never hosted. Maybe it really is too great and complicated for the Olympics?

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Perhaps there is a reason why NYC has never hosted. Maybe it really is too great and complicated for the Olympics?

Exactly.

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