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Copenhagen and Havana


pcelica

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What do you think of Olympic games in Copenhagen and Havana sometimes in future?

Copenhagen seems to be very nice city, and Denmark never organized Olympic games....so it would be nice to have OG there

On the other hand, Cuba is very successful in sports, especially at OG and deserves to host OG one day

So, do you think these countries are capable?

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There is a reason the Olympics have NEVER come to cities like Copenhagen, Dublin & Havana. 1 and 2 are quite small; they are compact, modest cities that have NO great sporting traditions and simply are NOT great sports capitals. #3 Havana is from a poor country. Probably the best they can aspire to and DID stage was a PanAms. But they don't have, like the 45,000 luxury rooms that a modern SOG requires.

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Havana is a long shot... For reals! I can even see Santo Domingo, Domincan Rep. with better chances.

As for Copenhagen, the city is great and has insfrastructure, however the lack of sporting venues is a major problem.

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Venues built for the 2003 Pan Am Games are in better conditions than in Cuba, Pablo Duarte Swimming Complex is awesome... One of the best in Latin America. Still any Caribbean city is a longshot, Pan Am are enough.

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Copenhagen might have potential in the future, the others mentioned - no chance.

I've mentioned before that if the political will and money was there, and if a London 2012 style plan was followed, Copenhagen could be the next big European city to host the Olympics after an inevitable third Paris Games.

In terms of realistic hosts, there is really only Paris, Madrid, Rome, Berlin, Copenhagen, Istanbul and Moscow that I can think of.

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Copenhagen might have potential in the future, the others mentioned - no chance.

I've mentioned before that if the political will and money was there, and if a London 2012 style plan was followed, Copenhagen could be the next big European city to host the Olympics after an inevitable third Paris Games.

In terms of realistic hosts, there is really only Paris, Madrid, Rome, Berlin, Copenhagen, Istanbul and Moscow that I can think of.

I would add Lisbon, Portugal to the list as a small country that could potential host a games and maybe more so than Copenhagen as they've a number of facilities which in lets say 20years can be modernised to help the cause including two largish indoor arenas, small arenas used by the large Benfica sports club, the two main football stadia, a natural harbour for the sailing events and interestingly the Estadio Nacional a run down stadium in Oeiras which hosted the 1967 European Cup, still holds neutral football games, has a running track and a capacity of 37,000 on a single tier - modernised and add a second level and you've got a 70,000 seat Olympic stadium with minimum fuss

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In terms of realistic hosts, there is really only Paris, Madrid, Rome, Berlin, Copenhagen, Istanbul and Moscow that I can think of.

Uhmmm...Copenhagen, NO.

You forgot... uhmmm....Barcelona? Munich? Hamburg, St. Petersburg, Stockholm.

Too small for summer: Koben, Dublin, Amsterdam (they just bailed out), Vienna, Zurich, Lisbon, Budapest, etc., etc.

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Uhmmm...Copenhagen, NO.

You forgot... uhmmm....Barcelona? Munich? Hamburg, St. Petersburg, Stockholm.

Too small for summer: Koben, Dublin, Amsterdam (they just bailed out), Vienna, Zurich, Lisbon, Budapest, etc., etc.

Interestingly with an urban population of 3,051,000 (2011) Lisbon has a large population than Munich (2.6m), Stockholm (2.1m) and Rome (2.8m) according to official census statistics.

In addition Lisbon and Portugal has a major tourism sector and with a new major international airport being planned, a range of international connections

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Actually, Munich's metro area is around 4.4 mil & Rome around 3.8. The main problems with cities like Lisbon, Copenhagen, Dublin, Prague Auckland, is that they are all located in very small countries & therefore would make it a great challenge for any of them to pull off a 21st century Olympics. Athens barely was able to do it & it's probably a main reason why Stockholm has shyed away now, too. The Games have gotten too gargantuan now.

Not to mention that Lisbon, Copenhagen, etc aren't really internationally renowned places. They're like the San Diego's, Minneapolis' & Charlotte's of Europe, both in urban areas & perception. I'm sure all are nice in their own ways but Olympic caliber is pushing it. Unless they all happen to run into a race where the Tokyo's, Paris', Berlin's, Moscow's, Durban's & Istanbul's of the world just didn't wanna bother anymore.

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Actually, Munich's metro area is around 4.4 mil & Rome around 3.8. The main problems with cities like Lisbon, Copenhagen, Dublin, Prague Auckland, is that they are all located in very small countries & therefore would make it a great challenge for any of them to pull off a 21st century Olympics. Athens barely was able to do it & it's probably a main reason why Stockholm has shyed away now, too. The Games have gotten too gargantuan now.

Not to mention that Lisbon, Copenhagen, etc aren't really internationally renowned places. They're like the San Diego's, Minneapolis' & Charlotte's of Europe, both in urban areas & perception. I'm sure all are nice in their own ways but Olympic caliber is pushing it. Unless they all happen to run into a race where the Tokyo's, Paris', Berlin's, Moscow's, Durban's & Istanbul's of the world just didn't wanna bother anymore.

Each potential city should be based on its own merits.

The urban population of Munich according to the office of German statistics is 2,606,021 - if you want to stretch it as far as Ingolstadt and Augsburg you get to over four millions.

Your comparisons with American cities is also in error. The smaller European cities also happen in most cases to be capitals and therefore have significantly greater infrastructure than a comparable American city of size, including accommodation, international connections, central infrastructure etc

If you consider the EU statistics, Lisbon is the 11th largest Urban area in the EU, Hamburg is 20th, Stockholm is 28th, Munich is 30th.

"Lisbon is recognised as a global city become of its importance in finance, commerce, media, entertainment, arts, international trade, education and tourism" and is ranked as an ALPHA city

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2010t.html

Lisbon is the oldest city in Western Europe, older by hundreds of years than London, Paris and even Rome being founded around 1200BC

Because of this it is one of the most visited cities in Western Europe with 1.75million tourists in 2009 alone.

And it has demonstrated the ability to host major international sporting events including.

Euro2004

2001 IAAF World Indoor Championship

European Fencing Championship 1983 and 1992

2003 World Mens Handball Championship

2008 European Judo Championship

and Benfica and Sporting are two huge clubs in a multitude of sports and therefore a number of facilities.

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Re Lisbon, even so, except for sports-mad Australia, it would just be hard-pressed for a nation less than 25 million to back up a modern SOGs today. You need that relatively prosperous BASE of 25 million or so in order to:go crazy about the whole Olympic thing, buy the mascots, toys, souvenirs and finally that's a large enuf population to:

- buy the tickets, including filling those crucial early soccer matches in the satellite cities +

- also for the Paralympics + the CUltrual Olympiad; AND

- must have sizeable universities and colleges (a minimum of at least 20) to become training bases for the major countries. .

Portugal is not a realstic country to do that when you have the Turkeys, the UKs, the Frances (the over 50-mil crowd) to do the job!! It's a game for the BIG BOYS -- not the adolescents.

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Re Lisbon, even so, except for sports-mad Australia, it would just be hard-pressed for a nation less than 25 million to back up a modern SOGs today. You need that relatively prosperous BASE of 25 million or so in order to:go crazy about the whole Olympic thing, buy the mascots, toys, souvenirs and finally that's a large enuf population to:

- buy the tickets, including filling those crucial early soccer matches in the satellite cities +

- also for the Paralympics + the CUltrual Olympiad; AND

- must have sizeable universities and colleges (a minimum of at least 20) to become training bases for the major countries. .

Portugal is not a realstic country to do that when you have the Turkeys, the UKs, the Frances (the over 50-mil crowd) to do the job!! It's a game for the BIG BOYS -- not the adolescents.

- The Iberian peninsula which is smaller in area than Australia has a population of 55million, and Lisbon has cultural connections to both Brazil and Africa. In addition Portugal is one of the most visited countries from the west of Europe. As for soccer in satelite cities you've got Porto with the 50,000 seat Dragao stadium, Faro with the 30,000 seat Algarve stadium, Braga with the municipal stadium of 30,000 seats, the historic university city of Coimbra with the Estadio Cidade de Coimbra with 30,000 seats and the Estadio da Luz in Lisbon with 65,000 seats - I see the Joao Alavade (50,000 seats) used for Rugby7s and maybe a new stadium on the Island of Madeira

- Cultural Olympics? are you kidding? You think this will be an issue with a Lisbon with a 3000years+ history, centre of the historic Luisitania, that gave the world Magellan, Vasco de Gama, Bartolomeu Diaz, Pedro Cabral etc that had the longest lived of all the global empires ...... you'd have more culture than you can ever cope with

- Baron, whilst major colleges are important in America, in mainland Europe you have the culture of the sports club. Whilst SL Benfica is most famous for its football team, it has sports teams in

Basketball

Handball

Volleyball

Athletics

Archery

Boxing

Canoeing

Cycling

Golf

Judo

Rugby

Swimming

Table Tennis

Triathlon

whilst Sporting Lisbon has teams in addition in Gymnastics, Shooting, Taekwondo and Weightlifting.

All of these either have facilities or could make use of future facilities potentially downsized. Other clubs with facilites include Athletico Clube de Portugal, Os Belenenses, GD Estoril, Setubal etc

The 7 other cities involved in Euro 2004 (Braga, Porto, Aveiro, Guimaraes, Faro, Lieria and Coimbra) could also serve as basis as well as a multitude of other clubs with training facilities spread around the country.

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Yeah, but again...while major countries are bidding for the SOGs (we are looking at least at the USA and South Africa for 2024, and maybe one of the losers in 2020), so why would the IOC again look at tiny Portugal -- when there are the major countries to host? And with Greece's downward economic spiral after Athens 2004, do you really think the IOC would want to saddle smaller-economically borderline countries with something as flippant as a major sports festival?? I would hope not.

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Yeah, but again...while major countries are bidding for the SOGs (we are looking at least at the USA and South Africa for 2024, and maybe one of the losers in 2020), so why would the IOC again look at tiny Portugal -- when there are the major countries to host? And with Greece's downward economic spiral after Athens 2004, do you really think the IOC would want to saddle smaller-economically borderline countries with something as flippant as a major sports festival?? I would hope not.

You could argue that with the major social and cultural problems facing South Africa that a major sports festival should be the last thing they'd spend money on

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You could argue that with the major social and cultural problems facing South Africa that a major sports festival should be the last thing they'd spend money on

No. I won't argue that because So. Africa will do what they want with their money. Plus, So Africa and Portugal are NOT on the same scale. RSA has the resources, the population, the infrastructre to SUPPORT a SOG; Portugal does NOT. Portugal is one of the PIIGS. Portugal is a B country in a continent full of Alpha sporting countries. South Africa is THE major country in a continent that has NOT yet hosted; will be backed by some 50 NOCs; and that continent is OWED an Olympic Games. Portugal, Denmark and Cuba are NOT.

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I'd love to see the Olympics change and go back to being something that could be hosted in a Havana-sized city. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Even if we did, I've got a hard time seeing the IOC schedule the games in the Caribbean during hurrican season (or Miami for that matter.)

As for Portugal/Lisbon... of course they could host the Olympics. It's a weathly country. (Don't confuse bad leading by Portugese banks with actual poverty). Countries like South Aftica (and China and Brazil for that matter) struggle to provide their people with potable water, sanitatation, etc. To state that a city in RSA can easily host, but Libon can't shows gross misuderstanding of the economics in these counties.

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. Countries like South Aftica (and China and Brazil for that matter) struggle to provide their people with potable water, sanitatation, etc. To state that a city in RSA can easily host, but Libon can't shows gross misuderstanding of the economics in these counties.

Well, that hasn't stopped China, RSA and Brazil yet from being once and future World Cup and Olympic host nations, has it? Yeah, Switzerland is rich, Monaco is PROBABLY even richer -- but they won't / CANNOT / will not be given the chance to host a gargantuan Olympic Games. That is why there are the YOGs and the IOC Sessions. Those go to the Lisbons, and the Dublins and the COpenhagens of the world. Heck, Lisbon could probably host any of the other SOG spin-offs: the YOGs, the World Games, the Special Olympic Games -- but they ARE NOT the big Summer Olympic Games material...regardless of what misinformed boosters here say! Has Lisbon even bid for the Games??? Not to my knowledge. As usual, it's only the armchair GB boosters who are pushing these cities on these fan-fiction websites. :rolleyes:

And what would the Lisbon-, Copenhagen-, Dublin-sized cities do with 24 stadia afterwards? Look what happened to most of Athens' installations. Even Beijing and London have struggled to find good after-use for two or 3 of their left-over venues. That 'temporary' idea doesn't really work in the long run. Look, there are still no takers for the 2012 Basketball arena despite all hopes when it was being built that Rio would inherit it. Heck, NOT even Glasgow 2014, just 200 or so miles up the road, wants to get it. I bet 2 or 3 of Sochi's permanent installations will see one or 2 events there a year after 2014. But Russia is awash with oil money.

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And what would the Lisbon-, Copenhagen-, Dublin-sized cities do with 24 stadia afterwards?

As mentioned the Sports Club culture which is particularly prevalent in Germany, Spain and Portugal where the club is not just a football club but puts out multiple sports teams can easily use a number of facilities post games especially if designed for capacity to be reduced.

Lets see what Lisbon has (and needs)

Already in existence.

Estadio da Luz - football

Estadio Joao Alvalade - Rugby7s

Pavilhao Atlantico - basketball

Coliseu dos Recreios - weightlifting

Campo Pegueno - gymnastics

Estoril Centre Court - Tennis

Pavilhao Acoreana Seguros - Handball

Pavilhao da Luz No2 - Boxing

Estadio Antonio Coimbra da Mota - Archery

Futebol Campos - Shooting

Estadio do Restelo - Hockey

Belem Cultural Centre - Judo, Taekwondo

Lisbon Congress Centre -

Feira International de Lisboa -

Estadio Alfredo Marques Augusto - equestrian

To be developed

Yachting

Beach Volleyball @ Carcavelos Beach

An Aquatic Centre

A Velodrome (an expanded Malveira?)

Mountain Biking @ Beira Park

A rowing facility

A National Stadium on the Estadio do Nacional - the Portguese FA already want to be part of this development

estadio-nacional-lisbon-247.jpg

@pcelica -- why bother with the B+, B-, C cities if you have enuf Alpha cities tripping over themselves to host?? That's what you should ask yourself rather than cherry-picking nice, little cities and trying to find an opening for them to possibly host.

According to GaWC, Lisbon is a A- city as is Barcelona, Munich, Istanbul, Dallas, Melbourne, Philadelphia, Johannesburg, Atlanta, Boston

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Your comparisons with American cities is also in error. The smaller European cities also happen in most cases to be capitals and therefore have significantly greater infrastructure than a comparable American city of size, including accommodation, international connections, central infrastructure etc

If you consider the EU statistics, Lisbon is the 11th largest Urban area in the EU, Hamburg is 20th, Stockholm is 28th, Munich is 30th.

Actually, no it's not. Minneapolis & Charlotte, for examples, are the largest cities & metro areas in their respective states. & have all the infrastructure comparable to these middling European cities. Both MSP & CLT handle 2 & 3 times more passenger traffic (& are also big Delta & USAirways hubs), respectively, than LIS does.

Not to mention that Minneapolis is home to several fortune 500 companies & also has 'media, entertainment, education & tourism'. And Charlotte also is home to some major U.S companies., but does any of that make them "ALPHA" cities, let alone Olympic caliber? No, it does not. And being "3,000 years old" also doesn't pull it to the front of the list, either. And besides, how many times has Lisbon tried bidding, besides not trying as of late.

Well, that hasn't stopped China, RSA and Brazil yet from being once and future World Cup and Olympic host nations, has it? Yeah, Switzerland is rich, Monaco is PROBABLY even richer -- but they won't / CANNOT / will not be given the chance to host a gargantuan Olympic Games. That is why there are the YOGs and the IOC Sessions. Those go to the Lisbons, and the Dublins and the COpenhagens of the world. Heck, Lisbon could probably host any of the other SOG spin-offs: the YOGs, the World Games, the Special Olympic Games -- but they ARE NOT the big Summer Olympic Games material...regardless of what misinformed boosters here say! Has Lisbon even bid for the Games??? Not to my knowledge. As usual, it's only the armchair GB boosters who are pushing these cities on these fan-fiction websites. :rolleyes:

Exactly, baron. Makes one just shake their heads at these "comparisons".

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@pcelica -- why bother with the B+, B-, C cities if you have enuf Alpha cities tripping over themselves to host?? That's what you should ask yourself rather than cherry-picking nice, little cities and trying to find an opening for them to possibly host.

who are you to tell me what to do....I am free to open any thread i want, get over it :P

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Actually, no it's not. Minneapolis & Charlotte, for examples, are the largest cities & metro areas in their respective states. & have all the infrastructure comparable to these middling European cities. Both MSP & CLT handle 2 & 3 times more passenger traffic (& are also big Delta & USAirways hubs), respectively, than LIS does.

Not to mention that Minneapolis is home to several fortune 500 companies & also has 'media, entertainment, education & tourism'. And Charlotte also is home to some major U.S companies., but does any of that make them "ALPHA" cities, let alone Olympic caliber? No, it does not. And being "3,000 years old" also doesn't pull it to the front of the list, either. And besides, how many times has Lisbon tried bidding, besides not trying as of late.

Exactly, baron. Makes one just shake their heads at these "comparisons".

Largest cities in the respective states - WOW - compared to a middling European city - sounds like someone who doesn't even own a passport?

Why does Lisbon have to have a record of previous bids? ... The Portuguese Olympic Committee were is discussion with the govt before the financial crisis, there will be a new airport with a 50million capacity by 2024. And it would not surprise me if the GDP of Portugal exceeded Minnesota and North Carolina.

And of course these middling European bids, if they go ahead will have full government support. As the Portuguese govt plowed money into Euro2004, an Olympics is the next step up especially as there a number of facilities in place and plans to develop new ones with or without the Olympics

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