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What a crock of B/S!!

I just came across this website/blog who claims that they have EVERY Olympic Ceremony...including those BEFORE moving cameras were invented. :blink: Like he actually does list 1920 Antwerp. Of course, I looked and it was nothing but some still photographs.

Methinks too much hyperbole. Look and judge for yourself.

http://bryanpinkall.blogspot.com/2012/07/1920-summer-olympic-opening-ceremony.html

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Are you envious or what's the big deal? ;) I actually thought that you knew that site already - because we already mentioned it here shortly before the London Games (when it went online) and we also posted a few ceremonial videos of that guy, including this video of the Montreal 1976 opening ceremony:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZqPL9FOHI0

Even if that guy isn't quite correct about the wording on his website, I think it's an interesting site nevertheless and with at least a few ceremonial videos I hadn't known before or at least not seen in a long time (such as the Montreal video above).

What I find far more irritating on that website is that it seems to automatically play the soundfile of the inauguration of Pope Benedict XVI in the background, even if you open that Antwerp 1920 page which you linked to.

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Are you envious or what's the big deal? ;) I actually thought that you knew that site already - because we already mentioned it here shortly before the London Games (when it went online) and we also posted a few ceremonial videos of that guy, including this video of the Montreal 1976 opening ceremony:

No. Why would I be envious of him? I just don't like sweeping claims made like that -- especially with the use of the word "Every." And if GIVES the impression (at least to me) that wow! his site contains hitherto UNDISCOVERED footage (even amateur) of the early pre-WW2 Games. It is blatant misrepresentation.

Further, he makes even more UNTRUE statements in at least 1 or 2 of the non-footage Games he writes about...as in the 1956 Stockholm Games. He claims it's the first one that lit 3 Olympic caldera (because of those 2 towers of the stadium). Wrong...and I wrote him about it. I don't know if he will ever get to it,respond, correct the error or not.

And no, I didn't know about this site previously. And NOT that I feel enriched by having discovered it lately.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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I've just checked that website and isn't that complete than others I have already found in several times. By the way, I've checked the Mexico'68 part, and it is mentioned that it was the last ceremony without any artistic portion. I think it was in Munich and even Montreal the ones which didn't include any either. It was until Moscow where the Muscovites re-invented the whole ceremony protocol since Berlin. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've also been looking for the previous ceremony Mexico'68 celebrated at Teotihuacan to welcome the Olympic flame with the most well-known "Huizachtecatl" or New Fire ceremony which was astonishing and the other one held the day after at Plaza de la Constitución or "Zocalo". A colourful ceremony, by the way, using those precise card stunts mosaics 12 years before the Moscow's Olympiad, but I haven't succeeded finding them. I've been in touch with Televisa and IOC in order to know if they can't provide them, and it logically they can't give it because the copyrights (yeah, call me naive, but I also think they should leave something for Olympic fans like us).

But editions like Mexico City makes me feel so attracted to the whole Olympic movement, because its location, time, legacy, art and creativity involved in the XIX Olympiad. Other cases are Moscow, Sarajevo and Barcelona and the ones coming up like Rio and Istanbul.

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I think, pre-1980, even if there was 1 minute of any sort of dancing, that would be considered the 'artistic portion.' Never having seen the 1972 Sapporo Opening Ceremony but I can't imagine Japan NOT having any sort of ceremonial dancing in their FIRST Winter Olympics, telecast in FULL COLOR yet. And remember, until 1994, the Winter Games always preceded the Summer ones, so, yes, in the "telecast years," I would classify the Winter games having more overt "artistic portions" than the summer ones in the same year (1972 - 76).

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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But it was until Sarajevo, another ex-communist host city hosted the WOG. I've seen some parts of Lake Placid'80 and Innsbruck'76 and it was just the traditional protocol.

I'm sure the Russian will re-invent again the ceremonies and this case will be the WOG. Although the look of the stadium seems they'll follow the Sydney pattern.

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But it was until Sarajevo, another ex-communist host city hosted the WOG. I've seen some parts of Lake Placid'80 and Innsbruck'76 and it was just the traditional protocol.

I'm sure the Russian will re-invent again the ceremonies and this case will be the WOG. Although the look of the stadium seems they'll follow the Sydney pattern.

That's what I'm saying. U seem to use the HUGE, LAVISH show of Moscow as the watermark for FULL or extended "artistic" or what I call the "entertainment" portion of the OC. However, I consider the small Austrian folk dancing portion at Innsbruck 1976, which eventually led to the requisite formation of the 5 rings as their "artistic" portion. Just as the similar youth (the gymnastic boys and the garland girls) in Munich did their little dances around the track -- without taking center stage. I would've considered those part of the 1972 "artistic portion." (And of course, Munich was hampered greatly by not having an OVERLY bombastic Opening Ceremony so as not to be compared to Berlin 1936; and a more somber closing due to the Israeli massacre.) Moscow went crazy with all their gymnasts and folk dancers to mask the otherwise "hallow" feeling of their Games -- not to mention Moscow and Seoul LITERALLY followed the Olympic charter wording to the letter by sending all the athletes out for the "entertainment" portion. It just seemed so odd.

Good subject you pose but it could be bordering on nit-picking. (Wish I could phrase it better but I am still very distracted by the loss of my cat. Sorry.)

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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What a crock of B/S!!

I just came across this website/blog who claims that they have EVERY Olympic Ceremony...including those BEFORE moving cameras were invented. :blink: Like he actually does list 1920 Antwerp. Of course, I looked and it was nothing but some still photographs.

Methinks too much hyperbole. Look and judge for yourself.

http://bryanpinkall.blogspot.com/2012/07/1920-summer-olympic-opening-ceremony.html

Sure looks like video to me..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fhV_kdSGhg

So in judging for myself (and I had seen this site before).. I haven't gone through the whole website to see if the "every ceremony" claim is true, but I see nothing wrong with someone else out there compiling information about Olympic ceremonies and putting it online. It's at least somewhat informational to say the least.

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Sure looks like video to me..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fhV_kdSGhg

So in judging for myself (and I had seen this site before).. I haven't gone through the whole website to see if the "every ceremony" claim is true, but I see nothing wrong with someone else out there compiling information about Olympic ceremonies and putting it online. It's at least somewhat informational to say the least.

I didn't see that video link. When I originally clicked on "Antwerp 1920," all I saw were still photos and text. I saw no video link. .

I DON'T object to his putting the stuff online. I object to his all-inclusive claim that his site allows that EVERY (i.e., ALL) Olympic ceremony is viewable on there in film footage -- which is simply NOT true. And in the Winter Games, he only has like 3 there.

(And really, it's just another portal to the IOC and LA84 archives/databases.)

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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But it's a website nevertheless that provides additional insight - as I said, that guy was the first to upload the almost-complete Montreal opening ceremony on YouTube. So he doesn't just copy what he read or downloaded elsewhere.

And even if that website contains errors (your book does, too, Baron, by the way ;)), I think it's always commendable if someone seems to be really interested in Olympic ceremonies or other Olympic stuff and tries to collect all his knowledge and material at his own website.

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(your book does, too, Baron, by the way ;)),.

I know it did. You have the first of, I think the 2010 editions, so my deadlines were VERY TIGHT then, to get it out about a month before Vancouver. And of course, like, even the Wallachinskys' books, new info always surfaces after-the-fact, which renders previous info incorrect or mistaken. And for any tome of "firsts" and records, the existing record-holders are always broken and being replaced by newer ones -- so a lot of reference books are, in effect, always works in progress. (They also had assistants and regular publishing houses behind them. However, like them I also ask readers to point those out to me so that they may be corrected in future editions.) No one is perfect.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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And by the way: That guy even has footage of the 1896 Games in Athens on his website:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y-ytDK00OCQ

And in fact, he is absolutely correct with his statement that he provides "Video of Every Summer and Winter Olympic Opening Ceremony" - he has no footage of Paris 1900 and St. Louis 1904, which is fitting because those Games had no official opening ceremony!



EDIT: Okay, he's only wrong about already providing footage of all winter opening ceremonies. His website states that he actually should have uploaded a lot more of those ceremonial videos to this date - he's running late: http://www.olympicceremony.org/#!winter/cfqp

But I'm certain he will upload footage of every winter ceremony as well, since all winter opening ceremonies were filmed indeed.

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/\/\ Wow. Then I stand corrected.

Altho technically, none of that Athens footage was the actual ceremony itself. It was just the VIPs arriving and getting to their seats. But it's amazing to now know that there were movie cameras already then. Too bad, no footage of the actual OC, or whatever there was of it, survives.

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What is exciting is that he apparently wants to upload the complete opening ceremonies of Sapporo, Innsbruck 1976, Lake Placid 1980 and Sarajevo 1984 - ceremonies of which we haven't seen complete footage until now on YouTube.



LOL Berlin were the first games with cameras

Berlin were the first Games with television cameras. Movie cameras exist already since 1895 - and as we can see now, they filmed even already in Athens in 1896.

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I somehow doubt that he has the legal rights, I guess the IOC has better things to do than giving some amateur a licence to use footage of its ceremonies. But as we know, ceremonial footage (at least of the Games before 2000) is rarely taken down on YouTube. The IOC seems to be more tolerant there.

But that guy also uses footage posted by other YouTube users (like the Munich 1972 video which was originally posted on YouTube by the owner of the German website olympia72.de). I doubt that they gave permission for that as well.

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Altho of course, he does credit the IOC at the end of the few older videos I have seen so far. Plus, there is that tricky Copyright law that anything, I think, before 1970 (am not sure about this...there are a few conflicting versions), if it did any have any copyright claim, is therefore considered in the public domain. So footage earlier than that, is not owned by the IOC. I remember (and it might be in your first edition, Fab) using a picture of one of the torchbearers running thru the streets of Berlin in 1936. One source I saw, said it belonged "to the U.S. Army as part of the spoils of war." So, I contacted the National Archives, and they said since that photo was part of captured material from the Nazis, it was therefore in the "public domain." So they let me use that image for free.

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What is exciting is that he apparently wants to upload the complete opening ceremonies of Sapporo, Innsbruck 1976, Lake Placid 1980 and Sarajevo 1984 - ceremonies of which we haven't seen complete footage until now on YouTube.

Berlin were the first Games with television cameras. Movie cameras exist already since 1895 - and as we can see now, they filmed even already in Athens in 1896.

Looking forward to see the full ones--and they better be the FULL ones--of the Sapporo to Sarajevo ceremonies. The IOC seems more concerned to me about protecting the rights of Olympics from even LA all the way to the present to now Sochi and Rio De Janiero once the IOC seemed to get smarter and more lucrative over broadcasting. But even with Beijing, we get full ceremonies from other nations' broadcasts with little issues (so far, until they're eventually taken down). I take it they're not concerned about LA, Calgary, Barcelona, Albertville, Lillehammer, and Seoul; for one thing, no DVD sales would ever exist for them.

If I read the TV camera bit regarding Berlin right. they were only shown just in the Berlin area, including the torch relay, with only a few minutes to show daily.

Would like Bryan Pinkall and Claude Simard to get together to splice together a really good full opening ceremony. You know, Claude would take care of the Parade of Nations bit that was largely omitted now that both versions are on YouTube.

But he said some of the ceremonies would come by April and May. Hasn't happened yet.

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The IOC seems more concerned to me about protecting the rights of Olympics from even LA all the way to the present to now Sochi and Rio De Janiero once the IOC seemed to get smarter and more lucrative over broadcasting.

Because the matters of copyright ownership of the images are more clearly and irrefutably in the IOC's favor. As I said, for the ones pre a certain date, the ownership may be in question. Also, the content of the ceremonies of the last 30+ years are far richer than in the b&w pre-Moscow days.

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Altho of course, he does credit the IOC at the end of the few older videos I have seen so far. Plus, there is that tricky Copyright law that anything, I think, before 1970 (am not sure about this...there are a few conflicting versions), if it did any have any copyright claim, is therefore considered in the public domain. So footage earlier than that, is not owned by the IOC. I remember (and it might be in your first edition, Fab) using a picture of one of the torchbearers running thru the streets of Berlin in 1936. One source I saw, said it belonged "to the U.S. Army as part of the spoils of war." So, I contacted the National Archives, and they said since that photo was part of captured material from the Nazis, it was therefore in the "public domain." So they let me use that image for free.

I believe that that "1970 limit" is US copyright law only. I believe that in German copyright law, only much older material is in the public domain, that is material from the 1930s and earlier. But I could be wrong or confuse it with another country. However, I'm pretty certain that there's no such thing as universal copyright law with identical time limits.

And I think there's also a difference between film copyright laws and photo copyright laws. I believe that photos are generally released sooner into public domain than films are.

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I really wished, though, that the IOC would be totally relaxed about footage of all Olympic Games besides maybe the two most recent editions. I doubt that you still can make big bucks with footage from Athens 2004, for example. I mean, Olympic opening ceremonies should more be dealt with as cultural legacy, as something that should belong to the public domain for everyone to learn how nations present themselves when the global spotlight is directed at them and how those presentations changed in size and shape over the decades.

But of course the IOC won't think about us handful of ceremonies aficionados and keep all that material locked in their vaults.

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I wish they would relax too. If you want to have the option of listening to the official IOC world feed in London or, say, with the Norwegian broadcasters of an event on a You Tube clip, you should have that option even long after the fact. The broadcasting rights money is more than enough, IMO. Besides, outside of NBC and the other big spenders around the world, the camera angles, scenes, and shots tend to be almost exactly unitary anyway.

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If I read the TV camera bit regarding Berlin right. they were only shown just in the Berlin area, including the torch relay, with only a few minutes to show daily.

What Berlin 1936 and the Nazis used was an early form of "closed circuit" television in that they set up some primitive form of large screens in a few public parks and big beer gardens. And they broadcast certain events -- I suspect the ones where they knew that the star 'Aryan' German athletes would be certain to win gold -- over this 'closed circuit' television. It'd be interesting to find out if any of those original 'jumbotrons' survived the war.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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What Berlin 1936 and the Nazis used was an early form of "closed circuit" television in that they set up some primitive form of large screens in a few public parks and big beer gardens. And they broadcast certain events -- I suspect the ones where they knew that the star 'Aryan' German athletes would be certain to win gold -- over this 'closed circuit' television. It'd be interesting to find out if any of those original 'jumbotrons' survived the war.

I hear of those early "jumbotrons" for the first time. Where did you read or hear that?

I only know that they had public "Fernsehstuben" (TV rooms) in Berlin where several people could watch those early TV broadcasts. The size of the television image also was actually a far cry from the jumbotron format. Here's a picture of one of those "Fernsehstuben". I wonder whether the people especially in the back rows could still recognise much on those small screens:

fernsehstube.jpg

And here's a picture of one of the TV cameras they used at Berlin's Olympic Stadium. No wonder that some spectators confused them with cannons. ;)

Olympia-Kanone_1936.jpg

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