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fatixxx

03.03. Bosphorus Stadium [opening & closing ceremonies]

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I do think they can use that venue afterwards...Istanbul like most major international cities does get regular visits from international stars...there are also many outdoor events...During the summer months i think the venue would be used quite regularly...instead of transferring a football stadium for a Madonna concert and destroy the turf (as was done on her last visit) why not use a purposely built entertainment venue.

Except that none of that still resolves the real crux of the matter, which is still the great logistical challenges that the Bosphorus stadium brings.

With the Olympic Village clear across the city from the Bosphorus, this creates a real, time consuming & potentially a haphazard logistical outcome. It looks like its clear that they just want to do it for show, when the Ataturk cluster is very capable in doing it on its own.

It's gonna be interesting, to say the least, how the IOC Evaluation Commission's final report will access all of this information. Especially when both Tokyo & Madrid are offering much more compact plans. If they do deem the Bosphorus plan "acceptable", then all this time of some bids making a big deal about compact venue plans will be the epitome that it doesn't matter, especially when it comes to a new & exotic locale.

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Except that none of that still resolves the real crux of the matter, which is still the great logistical challenges that the Bosphorus stadium brings.

With the Olympic Village clear across the city from the Bosphorus, this creates a real, time consuming & potentially a haphazard logistical outcome. It looks like its clear that they just want to do it for show, when the Ataturk cluster is very capable in doing it on its own.

It's gonna be interesting, to say the least, how the IOC Evaluation Commission's final report will access all of this information. Especially when both Tokyo & Madrid are offering much more compact plans. If they do deem the Bosphorus plan "acceptable", then all this time of some bids making a big deal about compact venue plans will be the epitome that it doesn't matter, especially when it comes to a new & exotic locale.

If Istanbul wins and the IOC provisionally OK's the Bosphorus stadium for Ceremonies, I think the reality will dawn that it is TOO great a logistical challenge, and the ceremonies at Sochi and Rio will cause Istanbul to rethink the plan. Or at least I hope so. Obviously, the present team does NOT have crowd control experts on board.

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folx,

I found a video link (NTV-msnbc news-channel) whereby the sports minister Suat Kilic answers the question "what will be done with the Bosphorus stadium after an eventually Olympic Games.. the video is about 8 minutes.. but I have problems on my computer, can't watch it.. want to ask EMRE or OLIMPIK to whach the video so that they can give us information what the Turkish Authorities want to do with this afterwards..

source link ==> http://video.ntvmsnbc.com/bogazici-stadi-olimpiyat-sonrasi-ne-olacak.html

loves

fatih

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Except that Chicago's was by a lake, therefore, calmer. This one, even though they plan a breakwater dam around it, is still along a busy international waterway, so I am sure there will be some drag on the water.

I think he was talking about Toronto and their plan to have rowing directly in front of the Stadium and Olympic Flame.

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Except that Chicago's was by a lake, therefore, calmer. This one, even though they plan a breakwater dam around it, is still along a busy international waterway, so I am sure there will be some drag on the water.

Wasn't referring to Chicago though lol

I think he was talking about Toronto and their plan to have rowing directly in front of the Stadium and Olympic Flame.

Yup and my signature gives that away.

Is the Bosphorus a temporary stadium?

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Is the Bosphorus a temporary stadium?

The capacity is gonna be like 30,000 and will serve as an entreteinment venue, as far as I know...

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The capacity is gonna be like 30,000 and will serve as an entreteinment venue, as far as I know...

That's not going to be big enough for them to even break even on the cost of the Ceremonies. A 50,000-seat stadium would probably help defray the cost of the Ceremonies.

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That's not going to be big enough for them to even break even on the cost of the Ceremonies. A 50,000-seat stadium would probably help defray the cost of the Ceremonies.

But 50,000 is too low... Perhaps for marathons its good, but I think that SOG Ceremonies need at least a 70,000 venue.

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But 50,000 is too low... Perhaps for marathons its good, but I think that SOG Ceremonies need at least a 70,000 venue.

But u're the one who just said 30,000. 50,000 will be less of a headache to fill. 70,000 will cause huge traffic jams esp on the Opening Night. Haven't u been reading the previous posts on this thread?

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The capacity is gonna be like 30,000 and will serve as an entreteinment venue, as far as I know...

For the games the stadium will have a capacity of 70,000...after the games it will be dissembled and will be reduced to a capacity of 30,000 and used as an entertainment venue

But u're the one who just said 30,000. 50,000 will be less of a headache to fill. 70,000 will cause huge traffic jams esp on the Opening Night. Haven't u been reading the previous posts on this thread?

The bid commitee has made it clear that special incentives will be offered to ticket holders who travel on public transport during the games...such as free travel. So as long as public transport is sufficient, no one will be driving there...

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The bid commitee has made it clear that special incentives will be offered to ticket holders who travel on public transport during the games...such as free travel. So as long as public transport is sufficient, no one will be driving there...

AK30, you think those special guests, who make up abour 40% of the stadium audience during ceremonies are going to give up on their BMWs and special Games Lanes to travel by packed public transport, not to mention for some of the more famous athletes and VIPs the security implication that brings? Huge amounts of people will be driving to and from the ceremonies. For this section of the audience, the question is how you get them there and back safely and on time, not the mode of transport which will be car.

The fact Rio is already doing this is a help, it means they can study their plan and its execution, and shows that the IOC is willing to make such compromises - so it is less of a risk to present this to them than it would've been four years ago. But it doesn't mean it's not far more logistically difficult than what most hosts do.

For the games the stadium will have a capacity of 70,000...after the games it will be dissembled and will be reduced to a capacity of 30,000 and used as an entertainment venue

Exactly. I'm not quite sure what Baron's going on about here. It's clear 50k wouldn't be anything like suitable during Games time, otherwise Rio would be having everything in the JHS and the Maracana wouldn't be hosting ceremonies. You need as big a stadium as possible, 70k plus really, not only to increase revenue, but also but also so the public can get some tickets. Once you fill up with VIPs, sponsors, IOC members, athletes delegations, media etc. there isn't much left for the public even with 80k. 35k of London's 80k audience were not members of the public. So it's obvious 50k would be far too small.

But of course, the strange thing with Istanbul is they already have a huge stadium that will be hosting athletics - and a stadium that is hardly ever used at that! They've not done this out of necessity like Rio. It's the single most extravegant, indulgent and superfluous project I've ever seen a bid committee propose. Its legacy will be dependent upon political will as much as anything. It does have a huge wow factor though! That's undeniable. Hell, I'm not paying for it, so as long as the people of Istanbul and Turkey are happy with this proposal and are happy to live with it afterwards - and as long as it's workable -, fine.

Edited by RobH
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AK30, you think those special guests, who make up abour 40% of the stadium audience during ceremonies are going to give up on their BMWs and special Games Lanes to travel by packed public transport, not to mention for some of the more famous athletes and VIPs the security implication that brings? Huge amounts of people will be driving to and from the ceremonies. For this section of the audience, the question is how you get them there and back safely and on time, not the mode of transport which will be car.

The fact Rio is already doing this is a help, it means they can study their plan and its execution, and shows that the IOC is willing to make such compromises - so it is less of a risk to present this to them than it would've been four years ago. But it doesn't mean it's not far more logistically difficult than what most hosts do.

Exactly. I'm not quite sure what Baron's going on about here. It's clear 50k wouldn't be anything like suitable during Games time, otherwise Rio would be having everything in the JHS and the Maracana wouldn't be hosting ceremonies. You need as big a stadium as possible, 70k plus really, not only to increase revenue, but also but also so the public can get some tickets. Once you fill up with VIPs, sponsors, IOC members, athletes delegations, media etc. there isn't much left for the public even with 80k. 35k of London's 80k audience were not members of the public. So it's obvious 50k would be far too small.

But of course, the strange thing with Istanbul is they already have a huge stadium that will be hosting athletics - and a stadium that is hardly ever used at that! They've not done this out of necessity like Rio. It's the single most extravegant, indulgent and superfluous project I've ever seen a bid committee propose. Its legacy will be dependent upon political will as much as anything. It does have a huge wow factor though! That's undeniable. Hell, I'm not paying for it, so as long as the people of Istanbul and Turkey are happy with this proposal and are happy to live with it afterwards - and as long as it's workable -, fine.

IStanbul is a 24 hour city..and Turks love outdoor entertainment....there are many outdoor festivals and every big name US music star on a tour of Europe will stop-over in Istanbul....besides the local stars and the smaller internationals...The big football stadiums are used at least 3-4 times a year for a major international star like...U2, Madonna, Rihanna, etc.....just this year..Rihanna, Beiber, Tiesto will be doing concerts in one of the big stadiums...so im not sure on how an entertainment venue would be a waste...with the Ataturk Olympic stadium...well thats the home ground of the Istanbul football team "Istanbulspor"...now you might say why does Istanbulspor need a football stadium when there are so many...well in a city like Istanbul...with mad football fans..Galatasaray stadium is exclusive to galatasaray...Besiktas stadium is exclusive to besiktas and sukru saracoglu..fenerbahce..and those stadiums are football only...box shape...they do not share with other teams...the rivalry is fierce...so therefore im not sure about the stadiums being "unused"

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I'm aware of Istanbul as a footballing city, it's the closest equivilent to London anywhere in the world in this sense. We don't do stadium sharing either as our clubs regard their stadium as a part of their identity. I understand that completely.

BUT the footballing situation at the Ataturk sounds like the situation Hampden Park in Scotland has with their footballing tenants, Queens Park. That is, a tiny team playing in a stadium far, far too big for them and not giving much back.

"Until recently IBB hardly had any supporters, despite playing in the country's largest stadium every home game felt like an away match. For years the Atatürk Olympic Stadium was the centerpiece to a strange spectacle, the only supporters in the stands would be fans of opposition teams. However, recently the team has won over some followers and they founded a supporter group called the, ‘Boz Baykuşlar’ (Grey Owls)."

ataturk_front.jpg

I can't imagine the Ataturk doesn't rely on subsidy from the state to keep going. And Istanbul will be building another publically funded stadium on top of this! On the face of it, it's nuts.

I didn't say this couldn't work though, or that I'm in any position to decide what's best for Turkey, only that it's a highly unusual proposal. It's not driven by legacy because Istanbul has a surplus of stadiums already and the Ataturk in the Olympic Park would do the job just fine. it's driven by wow factor and a desire to host the Games. If Istanbul wins, I doubt we'll know until 2022 at least whether this stadium plan has worked out for the best. Much like London 2012 in that sense, but another step beyond. It's like if London already had the Olympic Stadium and then decided to build another one on the Thames at Battersea Power Station just for ceremonies!

Edited by RobH

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FThe bid commitee has made it clear that special incentives will be offered to ticket holders who travel on public transport during the games...such as free travel. So as long as public transport is sufficient, no one will be driving there...

I understand that. I didn't picture it any other way. But do you have any idea how bringing...and really make that more like 85,000 (including 10,000 performers and 5,000 workers of all sorts, including Security, TV crews, food & concession vendors, etc.)...not to mention many cars & buses for the VIPs + their security entourages...people together for one moment by a certain time is? And even one Metro station for that area will really NOT be enough to handle that crush. And you can only fit so many buses in there at one time delivering people without causing gridlock. And ferries, even 2 at a time landing there, can only probably carry 300 people per boatload at like 1 delivery every 12 mins. So over a 2 hour period, and 2 boats at 300 a boatload, can only drop off, like 6,000 people. The bid committee has GROSSLY miscalculated the logistics of this project at this time. You aren't even talking the Paralympics here where you will have hundreds of handicapped athletes, performers & audience members being transported in wheelchairs, crutches, special equipment... thereby SLOWING the whole arrival and departure processes even more.

A 75,000-80,000 seat venue like that will have a Load-in time of, like 2.25 hours; and Load-out time of 2.75 hours...add 1/2 hour more for the Paralympics.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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The fact Rio is already doing this is a help, it means they can study their plan and its execution, and shows that the IOC is willing to make such compromises - so it is less of a risk to present this to them than it would've been four years ago. But it doesn't mean it's not far more logistically difficult than what most hosts do.

But we've yet to see how Rio actually executes their plans. Plus, the distance isn't as far in their case as in istanbul's. And Rio also doesn't have to deal with a large body of water to get the people through.

And yeah, Rio was a 'compromise'. But like I said earlier, how many times is the IOC going to make these type of compromises & exceptions. Especially in a race when we have one of the other main competitors harping about 'sustainability & fiscally responsible Games'.

And is this also a trend that the IOC wants to continue to see in the future, of seperating the athletics from the ceremonies, bcuz of such 'compromises' to allow some bidders to do so. And if they don't, then they're just opening up Pandora's box if they continue to allow such concessions.

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Rio's set-up is VERY doable; the distances aren't as extreme as Istanbul's, and it seems that Maracana is accessible from all sides. Istansbul's plan couldn't be more difficult if they planned it to be difficult...all just to have like a 10- to 15-minute son et lumiere, fireworks show against an old Istanbul background. I don't even know if they have tested how they want to light up the old landmarks of old Istanbul at night and have a show that's worth all that trouble. :blink:

The Topkapi Museum grounds are rather high up but the buildings aren't particularly grandiose or tall to provide anything exciting or breathtaking. It's only the Haga Sophia and the Blue Mosque that are standouts at a distance; and I don't know what exciting show they can make out of those.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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For a long time I was opposed to this Bosphorus stadium concept, but I'm starting to change my mind.

This is a marketing investment. The entire world watching those iconic images of Istanbul in the context of a glittering spectacle -- that's worth a high price tag. I don't know if it's worth what they'll actually pay, but I do think there's something to be said for giving the whole world goosebumps simultaneously. I could be a fantastic coming out party.

Of course none of that addresses the serious logistical concerns and all of those must be resolved first.

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So insperational.... :). Clearly the IOC is moving away from the athletics stadium as main stadium concept, if Rio is anything to go by.

This stadium would've suited sitting on the Auckland waterfront as Stadium New Zealand...NZ Cricket was looking for something like this as well.

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I don't know that the IOC is "moving away from the athletics stadium as main stadium" as much as they are wiling to entertain an alternative. And so far, we only know that they are ok with Rio's plan. We don't know what the response will be to Istanbul yet. So I think it's definitely too soon to call it any kind of trend.

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As much as the idea seems amazing (and would love to see it happening), I can't help but think that if this concept pulls a few votes for them, even if they ditch it, then its done its job. Maybe Im being a negative nellie, but many a fantastical ceremonies idea outlined during a bid has been tossed to the side of the road when the professionals are put on the job post win.

All power to them to make it work if selected, but I share the doubts of others.

The natural progression of ceremonies evolution would be to move out of the athletics stadium, to provide a more tailor made venue for the ceremonies, so far more technical investment can take place to provide jaw dropping moments (without having to worry about transforming it back into a sports field in a few days) - even if we think we have those already. So a sole ceremonies stadium would appear logical in this respect. But this of course totally flies in the face of the more responsible who are against the lavish spend of Olympic hosts (in all aspects of the hosting of the Games, not just the ceremonies).

So I dunno, maybe we underestimate the value of a coming out party and how big this would be for Turkey.

I still can't see it eventuating though.

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I'm aware of Istanbul as a footballing city, it's the closest equivilent to London anywhere in the world in this sense. We don't do stadium sharing either as our clubs regard their stadium as a part of their identity. I understand that completely.

BUT the footballing situation at the Ataturk sounds like the situation Hampden Park in Scotland has with their footballing tenants, Queens Park. That is, a tiny team playing in a stadium far, far too big for them and not giving much back.

"Until recently IBB hardly had any supporters, despite playing in the country's largest stadium every home game felt like an away match. For years the Atatürk Olympic Stadium was the centerpiece to a strange spectacle, the only supporters in the stands would be fans of opposition teams. However, recently the team has won over some followers and they founded a supporter group called the, ‘Boz Baykuşlar’ (Grey Owls)."

ataturk_front.jpg

I can't imagine the Ataturk doesn't rely on subsidy from the state to keep going. And Istanbul will be building another publically funded stadium on top of this! On the face of it, it's nuts.

I didn't say this couldn't work though, or that I'm in any position to decide what's best for Turkey, only that it's a highly unusual proposal. It's not driven by legacy because Istanbul has a surplus of stadiums already and the Ataturk in the Olympic Park would do the job just fine. it's driven by wow factor and a desire to host the Games. If Istanbul wins, I doubt we'll know until 2022 at least whether this stadium plan has worked out for the best. Much like London 2012 in that sense, but another step beyond. It's like if London already had the Olympic Stadium and then decided to build another one on the Thames at Battersea Power Station just for ceremonies!

Yes the Istanbulspor team is backed by the council...it is too big for the team..and is empty most occassions...However it was necessary....Exactly..it is all driven by the wow factor...which I think works...I can just imagine IOC members standing at that exact location and imagining what an opening ceremony would be like...the ceremony itself im sure would have a large part of it based on the cities Byzantine/Ottoman..history..to have those buildings as the back drop..would simply be amazing...Ataturk on the otherhand is at some distance...i still think after the games..the stadium as an entertainment venue..rather then a sporting stadium...can be part of a legacy

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I understand that. I didn't picture it any other way. But do you have any idea how bringing...and really make that more like 85,000 (including 10,000 performers and 5,000 workers of all sorts, including Security, TV crews, food & concession vendors, etc.)...not to mention many cars & buses for the VIPs + their security entourages...people together for one moment by a certain time is? And even one Metro station for that area will really NOT be enough to handle that crush. And you can only fit so many buses in there at one time delivering people without causing gridlock. And ferries, even 2 at a time landing there, can only probably carry 300 people per boatload at like 1 delivery every 12 mins. So over a 2 hour period, and 2 boats at 300 a boatload, can only drop off, like 6,000 people. The bid committee has GROSSLY miscalculated the logistics of this project at this time. You aren't even talking the Paralympics here where you will have hundreds of handicapped athletes, performers & audience members being transported in wheelchairs, crutches, special equipment... thereby SLOWING the whole arrival and departure processes even more.

A 75,000-80,000 seat venue like that will have a Load-in time of, like 2.25 hours; and Load-out time of 2.75 hours...add 1/2 hour more for the Paralympics.

No doubt logistics wil provide some challenges...But i tell you what, if they manage to sort out the cities traffic problems and have it run smoothly in the next 5 years as they are promising..Then Im sure sorting out the traffic around the stadium will be a breeze... :lol:

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Now everybody needs ANOTHER stadium added to their venue plan for ceremonies alone?? WTF? I love the lavish spending as much as any IOC a-hole but could we start to focus on sports for just a moment now and then? Say maybe once every 4 years?

If Istanbul needs a travel advertisement do we really need to be drug into their wanna-be scramble? The Olympics are really becoming more propaganda than anything. BAKU in the near future…..SERIOUSLY???

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Now everybody needs ANOTHER stadium added to their venue plan for ceremonies alone?? WTF? I love the lavish spending as much as any IOC a-hole but could we start to focus on sports for just a moment now and then? Say maybe once every 4 years?

If Istanbul needs a travel advertisement do we really need to be drug into their wanna-be scramble? The Olympics are really becoming more propaganda than anything. BAKU in the near future…..SERIOUSLY???

The Olympics have always been a propaganda tool, it is just used differently by different hosts.

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