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I put together this rough map of potential venues and stuff.

http://goo.gl/maps/TgGJu

I picked the stadium site at the South Bay Shopping Center for a couple reasons. First, that type of development is awful and no one is likely to miss it much. And secondly, it stands between two rail right of ways. One is the Red Line which is a heavy rail line. The other is the Indigo Line corridor which is presently a commuter rail line (with a stop being planned for Newmarket right where the stadium would be) but that could be upgraded to a heavy rail line for the Olympics and leave a good transportation legacy for the city (providing much needed infrastructure improvements and providing transit for transit starved areas in the city.)

If there isn't enough room in the venues in the map then additional ones could be built in the space over the Mass Pike, as Chris mentions above. Decking over the Mass Pike would also leave a pretty decent legacy for the city after the Games. Right now those projects are falling apart due to expense or arguments with MassDot, so having something like the Olympics could pull together a lot of the government agencies in order to get the development going.

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@Proposition Joe. So u think a Boston bid would build an entirely new Village of some 3,000 apartments/units rather than utilize the Harvard/Boston U dorms? Can the Boston real estate market sustain such a sudden influx of properties on the open market right after the Paralympics? See, I don't agree that Boston or any major city could sustain a sudden rash of 2,800-3,000 units immediately becoming available after an Oly-Para summer. And u would've missed a great oppty to upgrade university dorms by not having the universities loan their dorm facilities.

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Boston has a housing crisis due to a lack of housing and many neighborhoods are facing issues with gentrification. I see the influx of housing as another potential legacy for the games like upgrades to our transportation network.

Boston dorms also don't really need upgrading. Many universities are building or planning new dorm projects right now so they don't really need the incentive or impetus to upgrade their on-campus housing. I suppose using campus housing would be a good back up in case a full village couldn't be constructed though.

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Boston has a housing crisis due to a lack of housing and many neighborhoods are facing issues with gentrification. I see the influx of housing as another potential legacy for the games like upgrades to our transportation network.

Boston dorms also don't really need upgrading. Many universities are building or planning new dorm projects right now so they don't really need the incentive or impetus to upgrade their on-campus housing. I suppose using campus housing would be a good back up in case a full village couldn't be constructed though.

And its not like Boston is a super-dense Singapore and can't deal with extra population. Boston lost a lot of housing in the West End, Jamaica Plain, and Roxbury during the Urban Renewal Period and has been slowly trying to fix all the urban planning mistakes made during that period. Boston is more than capable of handling it and needs it.

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I want to point out that the major universities have managed to vastly expand their stock of student housing in the past decade, and it is almost always of very high quality (nice rooms are a key selling point). When I was a student, I live on-campus, in a full apartment (kitchen, living room, bathroom with separate vanity, and 4 single bedrooms) for my last 2 years. Oh, and we were on the 13th floor, the northeast wall was entirely glass, and we could look into Fenway Park. The schools definitely do not lack for high quality housing for their students (if anything, they're a bit *too* overeager to build 'sexy' halls). But anyway, back on topic.

The housing situation brings up another opportunity (again, I'm a silver lining kind of guy). The universities are constantly looking to build new residence halls for their students, the city wants them to (because they don't like students living off campus in large numbers; too unruly), but local neighborhoods always try to put on the breaks whenever a new building is proposed, for NIMBY reasons.

It also happens that some of the possible locations for the Olympic Village housing is very proximate to some of the Universities:

- Decking over I-90 through Fenway/Kenmore, by Boston University.

- Decking over I-90 through Back Bay, by Berklee and Suffolk Universities.

- Decking over the Orange line south of Massachusetts Ave, by Northeastern University (NU wants to do this anyway, and has wanted to - with varying levels of commitment - for the past decade or so).

- UMass Boston is traditionally a commuter school, but has been exploring moving away from that model for some time now. Lots of space around them, as well.

The village could be built as a partnership with one or more of these universities, with the university getting the rights to the structure afterwards to use as housing for their own students. The other universities in Boston have less 'blanket' opportunities for expansion, except maybe Harvard on their Allston campus (which has poorer public transit access than the options I suggest, which are all very close to one or more main subway lines). However, if piecemeal additions are acceptable, every major institution in the metro area is always looking for new expansion opportunities, so through Harvard, MIT, Tufts, and some of the smaller ones into the mix. Heck, some of the universities in the inner suburbs happen to be close to rail lines.

Oh, and if we're going to talk about undoing the urban renewal mistakes of the city's past, we could free up a good chunk of land in the core of the city by tearing down the West End, the textbook example urban renewal gone wrong.

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I want to point out that the major universities have managed to vastly expand their stock of student housing in the past decade, and it is almost always of very high quality (nice rooms are a key selling point). When I was a student, I live on-campus, in a full apartment (kitchen, living room, bathroom with separate vanity, and 4 single bedrooms) for my last 2 years. Oh, and we were on the 13th floor, the northeast wall was entirely glass, and we could look into Fenway Park. The schools definitely do not lack for high quality housing for their students (if anything, they're a bit *too* overeager to build 'sexy' halls). But anyway, back on topic.

West Village H? I live there right now. Although I don't think there needs to be more dorms for universities. They are more than capable fo building them on their own and many students will wish to live off campus anyways. As long as students want to live off campus there will be issues with gentrification and in order to address that you need to build up the supply of housing.

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West Village H? I live there right now. Although I don't think there needs to be more dorms for universities. They are more than capable fo building them on their own and many students will wish to live off campus anyways. As long as students want to live off campus there will be issues with gentrification and in order to address that you need to build up the supply of housing.

That is indeed the building; hard to believe its almost 10 years old this year (not that I was living there that long ago). I do have to disagree with your statement re: the need for student housing. NU in particularly has made a commitment to expanding their stock of student housing. NU is currently somewhere around just above 50% capacity to live on campus and want to have the option to provide housing to every student that wants to live on campus, eliminating the lottery system (other than for priority of choice). BU claims they've reached that point with a figure of ~75% of students on campus.

Crunching some numbers, NU has ~15,000 undergrads at the moment, ~8,000 of whom live on campus (per my contacts in the housing department). To reach 75% occupancy, they need 11,250 beds, about 3,250 more than they currently have. Of course, the issue is that, by 2024, I wouldn't be surprised if they already reached that point. It took them less than a decade to build their current new housing stock (all of West Village, Davenport Commons, International Village...).

Speaking of numbers, I want to address baron's specific point about Boston being able to absorb an influx of 3,000 units in the aftermath of the olympics. In 2009, Northeastern and Boston University both opened their two latest halls, International Village (1,200 beds) and 33 Harry Agganis Way (960 beds, and a desperate plea for a better name), respectively. Thats 2,160 beds available at the same time (taking in many off-campus students, freeing up the apartments they would have otherwise rented), and the city kept chugging along just fine.

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Guys, remember, the earliest timeframe I'm seeing for a Boston SOG hosting, if it happens, is probably 2028. That is if Durban gets 2024. And a 2028 SOG in the US might be ever farther delayed into the '30s if the US goes for a Winter 2026 WOG.

In the meantime, all your housing projections and immediate needs noted above, cannot wait until then. Come the late 20s, all of Boston's housing needs may already have been met and having a mini-city like London's OV opening fresh at that time, may not be as practical as you calculate it to be now.

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While I like the idea of a city held in the birthplace of America, there just isn't enough space for everything. I'm sure the exploratory committee will explore this, and step aside to let the "big" cities of America bid.

Also, can't believe someone suggested holding the ceremonies at Fenway Park. Or hell, holding anything at Fenway Park. There are seats there obstructed by pillars. Get outta here.

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While I like the idea of a city held in the birthplace of America, there just isn't enough space for everything. I'm sure the exploratory committee will explore this, and step aside to let the "big" cities of America bid.

Also, can't believe someone suggested holding the ceremonies at Fenway Park. Or hell, holding anything at Fenway Park. There are seats there obstructed by pillars. Get outta here.

Well, what specifically do you think there is not enough room for, in Boston? I'd think that the most difficult thing to place would be the stadium itself. That certainly would be a difficult proposition to find a suitable location within the city, but there is lots of land available for (re)development.

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Everything. Where are you going to hold swimming? BMX? GOLF?!

Swimming competitions would most likely be held at one of the larger universities. At the moment, my quick googling of the topic shows that the major schools (BU, BC, NU, MIT, Harvard, Tufts) don't have natatoria that are large enough. BU comes close, as does Harvard. Every facility other than BU's is several decades old, as well. This present an opportunity to coordinate with the schools when they seek to upgrade their facilities, as they're inclined to (I know that NU is planning on replacing their athletic facility). Or, one could simply be built on its own (as Proposition Joe suggests in his map on the previous page). I'm inclined to keep it associated with one of the schools, since they're likely the ones to have the most use for a competitive pool after the games.

As for BMX, Boston doesn't have anything even remotely resembling a Velodrome at the moment. Thats certainly a concern, as it is something that I can't really see much of a use for after the Games are concluded, so I don't know where you would put it without leaving a dead spot in the city (I'm very keen on keeping things useful). Unless its built as a facility that can easily be converted to some other use.

As for the Golf, I have no idea what the criteria for an Olympic Golf Course would be. I do know that there are *many* golf courses in the area, including many very nice ones, but I'm sure thats true of almost any major city. I am, admittedly, quite ignorant about this particular topic.

Anyway, there's plenty of sites available in general. Just for kicks, I went and gave into my inner Robert Moses and drew a box over as much of Boston as I thought was worth razing/building over for a contiguous Olympic park. Almost no residential areas are included (a few isolated buildings, here and there), its almost entirely industrial and some commercial.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=218347900697378492655.0004d5cfe38b6129eefaa&msa=0&ll=42.328347,-71.06884&spn=0.124878,0.258179

Thats pretty much 700 acres right there, more than enough for the park. Not that I think that would be an ideal thing to do, build the Olympic park just whole hog right in one big spot (as evidenced by the way I have parts snaking out into the city, I would prefer a serpentine layout, to make it more integrated into the cityscape). Its just a demonstration that, despite its dense and often congested nature, there's areas in Boston that are underdeveloped and large enough for the Olympics.

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Swimming competitions would most likely be held at one of the larger universities. At the moment, my quick googling of the topic shows that the major schools (BU, BC, NU, MIT, Harvard, Tufts) don't have natatoria that are large enough. BU comes close, as does Harvard. Every facility other than BU's is several decades old, as well. This present an opportunity to coordinate with the schools when they seek to upgrade their facilities, as they're inclined to (I know that NU is planning on replacing their athletic facility). Or, one could simply be built on its own (as Proposition Joe suggests in his map on the previous page). I'm inclined to keep it associated with one of the schools, since they're likely the ones to have the most use for a competitive pool after the games.

In keeping with the American way of doing Olympic things: swim venue at LA 1984 was at USC; at Georgia Tech in Atlanta 1996; was going to be at UC-Berkeley in san Francisco's 2016 plan. I don't know where New York 2012 and Chicago 2016 had placed their natatoria.

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While I like the idea of a city held in the birthplace of America, there just isn't enough space for everything. I'm sure the exploratory committee will explore this, and step aside to let the "big" cities of America bid.

I like that idea too. Mostly since the birthplace of America is most often considered Philadelphia, not Boston. tongue.png

In the meantime, all your housing projections and immediate needs noted above, cannot wait until then. Come the late 20s, all of Boston's housing needs may already have been met and having a mini-city like London's OV opening fresh at that time, may not be as practical as you calculate it to be now.

Couldn't agree more with this. Unfortunately, this is the price of dreaming big for the Olympics. If you're going to use an Olympics as part of a long-term plan for your city, you have to remember that 1) most of your planning will be taking more than a decade before the event, not to mention that the vote itself is 7 years prior and 2) you obviously have to prepare for the contingency that you might lose. It's why New York's bid was both very smart and extremely flawed both at the same time. A lot of the planning projects spurred by the Olympics occurred anyway. It's also why NYC 2012 and Chicago 2016 were largely one shot deals. I've said many times that a city's best bet is to develop a long-term vision that they can continue to push even if they lose the IOC vote. Obviously if a city like Boston has housing needs and other projects that need attention, you're playing a dangerous game saying these will come if they're awarded an Olympics.

So this all plays to the concept of how difficult it is for any American city to pursue an Olympics when it doesn't have the government and NOC backing that other countries provide. Yes, its a sad state of affairs that could make it very tough for the USOC, but there's not really all that much you can do to get around it without the proper plan.

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I like that idea too. Mostly since the birthplace of America is most often considered Philadelphia, not Boston.

Uh... whoops. Been watching too much National Treasure.

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We're the birthplace of the American Revolution. Philly just took care of the paperwork.

Great visual: Paul Revere riding with the Olympic Torch.

Yes, that must be why the Liberty Bell is in Philadelphia, not Boston. Oh, and equally great visual: Ben Franklin with the Olympic torch, and it gets lit by getting struck with lightning.

I'm certainly not doubting Boston's place in American history. Absolutely it's something they can and probably should use. But I think they're taking it a step too far if they're playing themselves up as the birthplace of America.

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Yes, that must be why the Liberty Bell is in Philadelphia, not Boston. Oh, and equally great visual: Ben Franklin with the Olympic torch, and it gets lit by getting struck with lightning.

I'm certainly not doubting Boston's place in American history. Absolutely it's something they can and probably should use. But I think they're taking it a step too far if they're playing themselves up as the birthplace of America.

You're right. We shouldn't be trying to steal Concord and Lexington's thunder. They deserve more respect, since America was really born there.

Concord/Lexington 2024?

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You're right. We shouldn't be trying to steal Concord and Lexington's thunder. They deserve more respect, since America was really born there.

Concord/Lexington 2024?

Rewriting history much? U had the battles...but the incorporation papers were drawn up, signed, filed and ratified in Philly.

Pls don't be "petty," Chris.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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You're right. We shouldn't be trying to steal Concord and Lexington's thunder. They deserve more respect, since America was really born there.

Concord/Lexington 2024?

Obviously we're getting into semantics, so let's agree to disagree on this one. The American revolution can certainly trace its roots to Concord and Lexington and Boston, but America's BIRTHDAY is July 4th. The United States of America were born on July 4th, 1776 and that happened in Philadelphia.

Again, Boston has a very storied place in American history. Not disputing that for a second. If they were to land an Olympics, let them play that up. Of course, if Boston and Massachusetts really want to play up their part in American history at an Opening Ceremony of an Olympics, pretty sure they're starting no less than 156 years before the Declaration of Independence.

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Rewriting history much? U had the battles...but the incorporation papers were drawn up, signed, filed and ratified in Philly.

Pls don't be "petty," Chris.

Like I said, Philly took care of the paperwork, though I am certainly not rewriting history.

Tell you what, in the interest of compromise, I'll offer this: If America was born in Philadelphia, it was conceived in Boston.

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