Boston 2024

[BR2028]

Mitt Romney will not be running for President of the USA in 2016 I wonder where he will be the President of Boston 2024 bid or not or will Sarah Palin will leading the Anchorage Alaska USA bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics and Paralympics Games after all she is a sports manager.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/mitt-romney-2016-presidential-election.html

Please stop.

No. Just.. no. If you're actually wondering that, you need help.

I thought it was a well known fact that he already needs help.

No MLS team is going to want to play in a stadium with a track in it even if their owner doesn't already own another stadium. Which means it would have to be rebuilt after the games anyway. Rebuilding the stadium would cost more than scrapping it, so it doesn't make sense to build a stadium for the Rev for free.

Not to be a jerk, but many Olympic Stadiums are turned into soccer ones and the track is taken out and replaced with extra removable seats and grass. Look at London, Barcelona, and Sydney.

[StefanMUC]

Mitt Romney will not be running for President of the USA in 2016 I wonder where he will be the President of Boston 2024 bid or not or will Sarah Palin will leading the Anchorage Alaska USA bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics and Paralympics Games after all she is a sports manager.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/mitt-romney-2016-presidential-election.html

I thought she's a hockey mum? Or is that enough to qualify as sports manager?

[BR2028]

I thought she's a hockey mum? Or is that enough to qualify as sports manager?

Sarah Palin is something, I don't think anyone knows what exactly she is though. Personally I prefer the term nutter.

[Quaker2001]

I thought she's a hockey mum? Or is that enough to qualify as sports manager?

I think he meant she used to be a sports reporter (emphasis on 'I think', since it's usually tough to tell with GCL)..

[BR2028]

I think he meant she used to be a sports reporter (emphasis on 'I think', since it's usually tough to tell with GCL)..

That hair looks better than her political opinions.

[Nacre]

Not to be a jerk, but many Olympic Stadiums are turned into soccer ones and the track is taken out and replaced with extra removable seats and grass. Look at London, Barcelona, and Sydney.

Sydney's stadium is also used as a cricket stadium, which uses an oval field. Barcelona's Olympic stadium also isn't used for top tier football. And London is not simply adding seating, they are rebuilding the stadium.

The distance between the first row of seats and the pitch/field in an athletics stadium is enormous. It ruins the stadium atmosphere and makes it hard for fans to see the action. Adding seating over top of the track doesn't change the fact that the distance and sight angles are wrong for all of the other seats in the stadium.

It costs $150-$200 million for an MLS stadium. It is costing over $200-250 million just to reconstruct London's stadium. It would not cost as much for a smaller MLS stadium that was always intended to be rebuilt. But it would still cost basically the same amount to rebuild an athletics stadium into a football stadium as it would to simply build a new stadium.

It only makes sense for an American city to go down that path for an NFL team that will be able to use the full footprint of an 70,000 or 80,000 capacity stadium. But it would still end up being extremely expensive. And NFL team would have to spend another $100 million or so to add luxury suites on top of all of the other reconstruction expenses.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Nacre

[stryker]

Still don't understand how they've put forth a bid proposal with no venues for handball, volleyball, or basketball prelims.

Now with Romney out of the 2016 discussion, if I was John Fish or Mayor Walsh I'd get Romney on board somehow or at least as a consultant because this entire bid seems like it could fall apart very quickly.

[LatinXTC]

Still don't understand how they've put forth a bid proposal with no venues for handball, volleyball, or basketball prelims.

Now with Romney out of the 2016 discussion, if I was John Fish or Mayor Walsh I'd get Romney on board somehow or at least as a consultant because this entire bid seems like it could fall apart very quickly.

I don't think it was necessary for Boston to show the USOC every single detail of their bid proposal, or even a complete one, if there is still 9 months to plan everything out before the US officially puts in a bid to host the Olympics. I'm sure they're working on that right now.

Not to be a jerk, but many Olympic Stadiums are turned into soccer ones and the track is taken out and replaced with extra removable seats and grass. Look at London, Barcelona, and Sydney.

Hmm perhaps you know something I don't but I was in Barcelona in the summer of 2012 and visited the Olympic stadium, and the track was still there. In fact, they remodeled it and now the track is blue instead of that orange color most stadium tracks are.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

GCL, Anchorage has no chance. That's a fact, just like Lima, Almaty etc have no chance.

[aquaman617]

Still don't understand how they've put forth a bid proposal with no venues for handball, volleyball, or basketball prelims.

Now with Romney out of the 2016 discussion, if I was John Fish or Mayor Walsh I'd get Romney on board somehow or at least as a consultant because this entire bid seems like it could fall apart very quickly.

I didn't see anything about handball, you're right, but volleyball is planned for the BCEC (convention center). I've heard the basketball prelims are going to be spread out a bit to regional arenas, but have not heard anything concrete.

Still don't understand how they've put forth a bid proposal with no venues for handball, volleyball, or basketball prelims.

Now with Romney out of the 2016 discussion, if I was John Fish or Mayor Walsh I'd get Romney on board somehow or at least as a consultant because this entire bid seems like it could fall apart very quickly.

Romney is already involved with the Boston 2024 bid team, AFAIK.

[baron-pierreIV]

volleyball is planned for the BCEC (convention center).

Hmmmm. FIVB has been VERY picky about ceiling height for their Oly tournaments. I believe they try to ask for a minimum unobstructed clearance of 30 ft. PLUS no direct vents over the court which would divert the path of the ball. Indoor volleyball venues of the past have NOT used convention centers which normally would have lower ceilings.

Edited January 31, 2015 by baron-pierreIV

[BR2028]

I don't think it was necessary for Boston to show the USOC every single detail of their bid proposal, or even a complete one, if there is still 9 months to plan everything out before the US officially puts in a bid to host the Olympics. I'm sure they're working on that right now.

Hmm perhaps you know something I don't but I was in Barcelona in the summer of 2012 and visited the Olympic stadium, and the track was still there. In fact, they remodeled it and now the track is blue instead of that orange color most stadium tracks are.

Barcelona still is a soccer stadium and both London and Sydney removed the track. In Sydney's case they have removable seats and London is still undergoing the renovation. The point is that many if not most Olympic stadiums become soccer stadiums.

GCL, Anchorage has no chance. That's a fact, just like Lima, Almaty etc have no chance.

Tony, you do realize that Anchorage was the US Winter bid twice? You also do realize that unlike any of those other countries Anchorage is a major city in one of the most important nations not just in the world but also the Olympic Movement? I would say that it is certainly possible for Anchorage to bid and win the Winter Olympics.

[TheOtherRob]

Barcelona still is a soccer stadium and both London and Sydney removed the track. In Sydney's case they have removable seats and London is still undergoing the renovation. The point is that many if not most Olympic stadiums become soccer stadiums.

Actually BR2028, the post you were intitially responding to was about rebuilding the stadium. And that's exactly what would have to happen if a US soccer team wanted in and didn't want a track.

US soccer stadiums are not going to need the capacity English Premier League or Ozzie rules need. Therefore what you'll have is a big athletics stadium. You'll demolish the lower tier and move seats closer to the pitch, THEN demolsh the upper tier as no US soccer club needs more than about 40k. It would in essence have to be a complete rebuild.

Maybe it would be possible to do something like Manchester did with the CWG stadium, but for that to work I think you'd need a hugely lopsided stadium in Games-mode with very lage end stands.

It's hard to think of a feasible way of converting a large T&F stadium into a modest soccer stadium. I'm intruiged to see what they come up with if this is the route they decide to take.

[Usa2024olympics]

Well London is keeping the track because they're hosting the 2017 World Championships.

[Nacre]

Barcelona still is a soccer stadium and both London and Sydney removed the track. In Sydney's case they have removable seats and London is still undergoing the renovation. The point is that many if not most Olympic stadiums become soccer stadiums.

They are sometimes used for football/soccer, but they are not desirable from a commercial perspective. FC Barcelona is never going to want to play in a stadium with a track in it.

It simply isn't economical for a US soccer team to try and remodel an Olympic stadium to suit their needs when it would cost less to build a new stadium from scratch to their own specifications. The only way it makes sense is for a team that needs the steel, foundation, parking garages, etc of a stadium for 70,000 seats. IE an NFL team like the Raiders, Bears or Chargers.

For the record I think London made the right choice in picking West Ham's plan to remodel the stadium and have a multipurpose football/cricket/athletics stadium over Tottenham's plan to demolish the stadium. But that's only because 1) London is the top city in the world and can easily attract occasional athletics tournaments, and 2) they already built a permanent stadium and were trying to find a use for it after the fact, 3) they can also use the stadium for cricket, so a football/cricket groundshare is possible.

[aquaman617]

Hmmmm. FIVB has been VERY picky about ceiling height for their Oly tournaments. I believe they try to ask for a minimum unobstructed clearance of 30 ft. PLUS no direct vents over the court which would divert the path of the ball. Indoor volleyball venues of the past have NOT used convention centers which normally would have lower ceilings.

So you think the people on the organizing committee have done absolutely no homework about the minimum requirements of the IOC and volleyball's governing body? Come on, give them some credit.

I have been inside the BCEC on a few occasions. I'd guess the ceiling is at least 50' high.

[baron-pierreIV]

So you think the people on the organizing committee have done absolutely no homework about the minimum requirements of the IOC and volleyball's governing body? Come on, give them some credit.

I have been inside the BCEC on a few occasions. I'd guess the ceiling is at least 50' high.

Oh OK then, it will pass muster. However, from the photos online, I don't see where they can install 15-17,000 seats in an arena configuration.

[binary]

Oh OK then, it will pass muster. However, from the photos online, I don't see where they can install 15-17,000 seats in an arena configuration.

the volleyball arena was placed in the new expansion hall.

[baron-pierreIV]

the volleyball arena was placed in the new expansion hall.

OK.

[Quaker2001]

The space to the left that's currently a parking lot will be where the new Hall D will be built. That's the space that will host indoor volleyball. And that space is actually a little better than the footprint of TD Garden. And in looking at the specs of the existing exhibit halls, there are 2 different ceiling heights.. one around 35 feet, the other (in the center) at 92 feet. So with the new hall likely built with Olympic volleyball in mind, I'm sure they can customize it to whatever specs the FIVB requires.

[zekekelso]

I still think there's a piece of the puzzle missing. Some unannounced venue isn't 100% certain. Boston doesn't want a repeat of the disaster that hit NYC when it announced the west side stadium, then had to pull that from their plans.

[Quaker2001]

I still think there's a piece of the puzzle missing. Some unannounced venue isn't 100% certain. Boston doesn't want a repeat of the disaster that hit NYC when it announced the west side stadium, then had to pull that from their plans.

What does 1 have to do with the other? Particularly in the context of a potentially unannounced venue. They have time (2 1/2 years, in fact) to tweak their plans so maybe there is a venue or 2 that will be added. But I don't see where NYC and the West Side Stadium is a cautionary tale in that regard that we need to apply to Boston, less it be applied to any bid from any country.

[zekekelso]

NYC 2012 looked bad when they pulled the West Side stadium from their plans. In hind site they would have been better off never announcing it.

Lesson learned: don't announce venues until they are near certain.

[Quaker2001]

NYC 2012 looked bad when they pulled the West Side stadium from their plans. In hind site they would have been better off never announcing it.

Lesson learned: don't announce venues until they are near certain.

That's asinine. They shouldn't have announced plans for their main stadium? Yea, that would have gone over real well..

IOC: "So tell us about your stadium"

NYC2012: "Uhh.. we can't yet, we'll tell you about it later. But yea, don't worry, we got it covered! Trust us "

No lesson ever gets learned unless you take into account the circumstances of what it is you're trying not to repeat. It can't be "this happened before, don't let it happen again." That's a false argument too many people make here. So if we're going to use NYC 2012 as a cautionary tale..

It goes without saying that the NYC2012 folks miscalculated badly on the stadium. They picked an area in Manhattan ripe for development, asking to use $300 million in state funding, not to mention the land transfer that would have been required. Probably should have taken a hint from the Yankees who had considered a plan to build a stadium there themselves, but that never materialized (and that was with Giuliani in office, not Bloomberg). So yes, their fate was in the hands of politicians that were able to shoot it down.

The lesson here isn't "don't announce venues until they are near certain." The lesson is don't leave the fate of your venue up in the air to where you have little control whether it can happen or not, particularly when your fate is going to be decided a month before the IOC vote. If this had happened a year before the vote as opposed to a month, it would have looked a lot different for NYC2012, not that they would have stood a better chance at winning.

We're 2 1/2 years out from the vote for 2024. If you're talking about what Boston doesn't want to repeat, it's a really bad basis of comparison to put a hypothetical venue in Boston for something like basketball prelims (which could easily change if need be.. wouldn't be the first Olympic bid to do so) up against the Olympic Stadium planned in New York. 1 is nothing like the other. This isn't apples to oranges. It's more like apples to lugnuts.

[baron-pierreIV]

It just happens. There are certain things one has absolutely NO control over. Actually, even worse than the NYC 2012 stadium glitch was the San Francisco 2016 stadium snafu when those cursed, inbreeding DeBartolo-York freaks made their announcement just as SF 2016 was presenting at the finals down in Orange County before the USOC.