phandrosis Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't know if anyone else did, but I just finished watching the livestream of the Boston 2024 Citizens Advisory Group meeting and I thought it went pretty well and answered a lot of questions that people have been throwing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is it just me or they forgot to include Handball and Basketball prelims in their bid plans? So they're really going for a 100% temporary stadium? No downsizing-and-turning-it-into-a-soccer-stadium plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binary Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is it just me or they forgot to include Handball and Basketball prelims in their bid plans? So they're really going for a 100% temporary stadium? No downsizing-and-turning-it-into-a-soccer-stadium plan? Yeah I realized that too, but, additionally, they also didn't include conte forum or matthews arena as the primary venue for anything either, leading me to believe that those to arenas are home to basketball and handball respectively. No idea why it's like that though or what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 They stated during the meeting that badminton and handball would be in some arena I didn't catch the name of and basketball in TD Gardens. I thought I read about basketball in the plans though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binary Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 basketball finals at td garden and badminton at agganis arena. from early reports, handball was at bcec but in the actual plan its volleyball and handball is no where to be found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I love it! Why is there a swimmer on the stadium though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opacity Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah I realized that too, but, additionally, they also didn't include conte forum or matthews arena as the primary venue for anything either, leading me to believe that those to arenas are home to basketball and handball respectively. No idea why it's like that though or what it means. Neither of those venues really seems suitable for Olympic basketball, which is a marquee event at a US Olympics. I won't be surprised if they try to use another city for the prelims, soccer-style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman617 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I love it! Why is there a swimmer on the stadium though? Jumbo-tron showing a live event taking place across town, in all likelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Jumbo-tron showing a live event taking place across town, in all likelihood. They should have shown athletic clips or something, the swim clashes IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 They should have shown athletic clips or something, the swim clashes IMO. As someone who has operated the video board at a sports venue before, here's what I'll say to that.. That image is very horizontal. Fits a very wide screen. Would something from track & field be able to fill that space more dynamically? Otherwise, we're really just splitting hairs here on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Sure feels like they are short a major arena. I wonder if there isn't an unannounced plans for one of the colleges (or the new Wynn casino) to build one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Can't they ask Qatar for one of those extra stadia after 2022?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Sure feels like they are short a major arena. I wonder if there isn't an unannounced plans for one of the colleges (or the new Wynn casino) to build one. Does Boston have any modern arenas other than TD Garden and the university arenas? It honestly does seem a little strange to me. I wonder if this is actually a downside to having the full four sports teams. (Five if you count the Rev.) In Seattle we have two modern suburban arenas in the 6,500-9,000 seat range for our two minor league hockey teams. If we had an NHL team we would need a 16,000-20,000 capacity arena and it would end up being shared with an NBA team. Meanwhile there wouldn't be enough fan support to maintain the minor league teams and their two arenas. So adding an NHL team might actually reduce the demand for arenas. Interesting to ponder. It would be a bit sad if Boston spent billions of dollars hosting and didn't end up with a single new permanent arena or stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 - Sponsored and approved by Agenda 2020 ----- Seriously though, it really seems like Boston won't have a direct, long-term, meaningful legacy of the games. They seem to be interpreting Agenda 2020 as very temporary-reliant, or maybe that's what works best for the city? I haven't looked too much into the documents, can anyone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Seriously though, it really seems like Boston won't have a direct, long-term, meaningful legacy of the games. They seem to be interpreting Agenda 2020 as very temporary-reliant, or maybe that's what works best for the city? I haven't looked too much into the documents, can anyone confirm? Or perhaps they're not interpreting agenda 2020 since they've been working on this since long before those reforms were passed. But yes, I agree that this all doesn't seem to offer much in terms of legacy and they probably can't cite all the infrastructure improvements since it sounds like much of that will go on anyway regardless of the outcome of the Olympic vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 So in terms of legacy they will have new dorms from the Athletes Village and a larger convention center from the IBC/MPC. I think legacy wise it will be similar to Atlanta where only things like dorms and maybe a new park here or there will remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yeah but that really doesn't scream: "WOW! look what the games did to us! Whoopie! Brand spanking new dorms! This will become the envy of all cities and totally attract more bids from other nations!" After all, the IOC is probably looking for cities to try to drag interest from others this time 'round *cough* 2022 *cough*. I don't really think new dorms will exactly motivate a nation to get on board to the bidding train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 It's a catch 22. Building new stadiums just for the sake of building them is a terrible idea. Conversely I don't think that there's anything deplorable about following in the model of Los Angeles and using mostly existing structures. But Los Angeles didn't just host for the sake of hosting. It also served a greater purpose: showing how the games can be economically affordable with good planning. The concern for me is that Boston needs to find some other reason for hosting if it isn't going to leave a physical legacy of new parks, mass transit, stadiums, etc. American nationalism and desire to get the games back on US soil by any means possible is not a good enough reason for the IOC to give the games to Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I kinda find it ironic how Boston's promoting itself as a city of innovation but they can't seem to figure out how to deal with the damn legacy. Boston can build a stadium for the uni's there. I mean, that sounds better than "let's host a two week party, then rip all the stuff relating to sports apart and reuse it into something entirely different!" The narrative of innovation and Olympic "catalyst" is good enough I suppose (it does sound like they're trying to use the games as an excuse to show off all their tech to compensate for the lack of average-joe recognition though...), but their post-game plan really doesn't appeal to me. Unless i was the mayor of some smaller city (and was inspired by Boston's successful hosting), I don't think I'd be swayed to bid if I look at what Boston has become post games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/18/boston-games-could-rely-distant-venues/WveB9i8hgXvtML3Tb4iC0J/story.html Saw this article from the Boston Globe about using some rather distant venues but I honestly cannot see an arena like Madison Square Garden hosting preliminary rounds of basketball. About Boston being short an arena, maybe not. They could easily use the DCU Center (12,000 capacity) in Worcester on the campus of the College of the Holy Cross. It's just a bit under 50 miles from Boston (Going to bring up Atlanta as a comparison but the venues in Athens, GA were nearly 70 miles from Atlanta). The problem though would be traffic which from what I've heard is a nightmare during rush hour between Worcester and Boston. DCU Center would host volleyball, handball, or basketball prelims. I also think Boston needs to figure out how to incorporate Conte Forum at Boston College and Matthews Arena at Northeastern. I'd like to see boxing moved to the Conte Forum with Matthews Arena hosting either prelims in basketball or handball. Move the remaining prelims to DCU Center and take the Paul Tsongas Center out of the plans. Forgot to add this to my last post, but if they cannot figure out how to deal with the traffic problem between Boston and Worcester then perhaps they could use the Dunkin Donuts Center in Providence, RI. Providence is roughly the same distance and you have a major interstate highway. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythebay Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think people tend to overlook how important the legacy aspect of a bid is when getting to that final pitch to the IOC voting group. How the Olympics can have a lasting impact on the host city/country and vice versa. It's how London beat out Paris, and how a risky Rio bid beat out the safe Madrid, Tokyo and Chicago bids. I'm actually impressed at Boston's venue plan, it's compactness and connectivity is a big plus. I still think getting people around Boston's confusing street layouts will be challenging but seeing how compact the venues will be, focusing on walkability could be advantageous. It's a fairly solid plan if it weren't for all the temporary venues. What the USOC failed to see however are the intangibles. What legacy will the Olympics leave in Boston and what legacy will Boston leave the Olympics? That's where I see the missed oppoortuntiy was by not choosing LA, which is currently undergoing a wave of transformation. It would've set a new model for the Olympics (again) by focusing on sustainability and the use of existing venues, most of which weren't yet built during the '84 games. Plus, restoring the LA River would've been a huge stamp for the Olympics. But now that Boston is the one moving forward, we'll just have to see what the bigger European cities come up with especially what their legacy plans are. Boston seems to be on its way towards a referendum like most of the bidding European cities so it looks like Boston isn't a sure bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Seriously though, it really seems like Boston won't have a direct, long-term, meaningful legacy of the games. They seem to be interpreting Agenda 2020 as very temporary-reliant, or maybe that's what works best for the city? I haven't looked too much into the documents, can anyone confirm? Yes, I think that's what makes the bid a bit weak to me. The only new permanent venues are the Velodrome and the Whitewater River if I'm correct. Too bad they plan to pay hundred of millions of dollars on building a 60,000-seat stadium to destroy it after the games. Especially since the New England Revolution were apparently interested by a new stadium in Boston. Sure they can find a way to reduce capacity and bring the seats closer to the soccer field if the stadium's design is well thought out (contrary to London's Olympic Stadium) https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/18/boston-games-could-rely-distant-venues/WveB9i8hgXvtML3Tb4iC0J/story.html Saw this article from the Boston Globe about using some rather distant venues but I honestly cannot see an arena like Madison Square Garden hosting preliminary rounds of basketball. About Boston being short an arena, maybe not. They could easily use the DCU Center (12,000 capacity) in Worcester on the campus of the College of the Holy Cross. It's just a bit under 50 miles from Boston (Going to bring up Atlanta as a comparison but the venues in Athens, GA were nearly 70 miles from Atlanta). The problem though would be traffic which from what I've heard is a nightmare during rush hour between Worcester and Boston. DCU Center would host volleyball, handball, or basketball prelims. I also think Boston needs to figure out how to incorporate Conte Forum at Boston College and Matthews Arena at Northeastern. I'd like to see boxing moved to the Conte Forum with Matthews Arena hosting either prelims in basketball or handball. Move the remaining prelims to DCU Center and take the Paul Tsongas Center out of the plans. Forgot to add this to my last post, but if they cannot figure out how to deal with the traffic problem between Boston and Worcester then perhaps they could use the Dunkin Donuts Center in Providence, RI. Providence is roughly the same distance and you have a major interstate highway. Thoughts? When I did a fantasy bid for Boston a few years ago, it included a new 12,000-seat arena for Basketball prelims and Handball finals that would be downsized to 6,000 seats after the games. I don't know if Harvard actually needs a new arena though. I had the Handball prelims in Lowell. Conte Forum could host the Handball prelims in the real Boston bid, but not Basketball because the capacity is under 10,000. What I don't get in this bid is the fact they chose Paul Tsongas Center for Boxing while some arenas the same size in Boston are not used (especially Conte Forum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well Atlanta's secondary basketball venue was Forbes Arena (6,000) at Morehouse College while if I'm not mistaken isn't Rio planning to host basketball prelims at the Deodoro Arena which is somewhere around 8,000? I'm not sure on minimum capacities set by the IOC. Boston also has the Hynes Convention Center which has close to 200,000 square feet of exhibition space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman617 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think people tend to overlook how important the legacy aspect of a bid is when getting to that final pitch to the IOC voting group. How the Olympics can have a lasting impact on the host city/country and vice versa. It's how London beat out Paris, and how a risky Rio bid beat out the safe Madrid, Tokyo and Chicago bids. I'm actually impressed at Boston's venue plan, it's compactness and connectivity is a big plus. I still think getting people around Boston's confusing street layouts will be challenging but seeing how compact the venues will be, focusing on walkability could be advantageous. It's a fairly solid plan if it weren't for all the temporary venues. What the USOC failed to see however are the intangibles. What legacy will the Olympics leave in Boston and what legacy will Boston leave the Olympics? That's where I see the missed oppoortuntiy was by not choosing LA, which is currently undergoing a wave of transformation. It would've set a new model for the Olympics (again) by focusing on sustainability and the use of existing venues, most of which weren't yet built during the '84 games. Plus, restoring the LA River would've been a huge stamp for the Olympics. But now that Boston is the one moving forward, we'll just have to see what the bigger European cities come up with especially what their legacy plans are. Boston seems to be on its way towards a referendum like most of the bidding European cities so it looks like Boston isn't a sure bet. Boston's legacy is about not saddling the host city with unsustainable white elephant projects, like Athens and Beijing. Boston doesn't have a surplus of arens and huge stadia because it doesn't really need them. It's universities are not like Ohio State or Michigan where a 90,000 seat football stadium is a given. A Harvard football game is never going to pull in more than Harvard Stadium can already hold. MIT will never need a 20,000 seat arena. They're just not those kinds of schools. So what legacy will the Games leave Boston? Thousands of housing units, not only in the form of college dorms, but middle class housing, which is desperately needed. It will spur on quicker improvements to Boston's public transit system. And by developing Widett Circle, it will provide a platform for commercial and residential growth in a former industrial area, closing the gap between two of the city's fastest growing neighborhoods (South End and South Boston). What legacy could Boston leave the Games? To show a new way (newer than LA's hosting would have been): hold the Games, incorporate projects that will overall benefit the host city, and leave a minimal footprint when the circus leaves town. If done successfully, I'm sure it would inspire many more medium-sized cities to bid and provide assurance to many European countries that hosting does not have to wreck your city or its finances. Boston also has the Hynes Convention Center which has close to 200,000 square feet of exhibition space. Hynes is a no-go. It straddles an interstate. There would be tons of security concerns with a public road running, literally, underneath a venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Looking at London's stadium, it seems like it's actually less wasteful to build a 100% disposable stadium than one that will be transformed into something afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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