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From an arena standpoint, all Boston needs is the 15,000er for volleyball (right?). They either get one of the colleges to build, or convince the IOC that the 15,000 standard for volleyball isn't necessary (just to remind people again, the IOC has standards, not requirments.)

This is going to come up again and again in discussing 2024. Is the IOC serious about reform? Or is all the agenda 2020 stuff just talk. Be fun if Boston and the USOC called the IOC's bluff. Oh, you say you want flexibility to make things cheaper. Well here's a great city and a great bid, except that you only get 8,000 seats for volleyball and the tennis is going to be in New Haven.


The original Garden lasted about as long as the other Original Six arenas, which have all been replaced or renovated in the last 15 years. I think in this day and age, it's about evolving and adapting sports venues. The novelty of old stadiums is no longer the norm. I don't think we'll see arenas last 60 plus years anymore with the desire for advancements and modernization. At least a facelift will be necessary.

Even if Boston needs a new Gahden, they'll do what they did last time: Tear down the old and build the new one over North Station. I don't see a situation where you keep the old arena and get a new one too.

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Boston, Massachusetts is taking the first big steps towards looking into the feasibility of a Summer Games bid for the earliest year 2024. On Thursday, January 10, 2013, the MA State Senate file a Re

Oslo was an abortion - Boston is a miscarriage.

We prefer "Masshole" to "total douche".

Yes I do infact... go buy them you can have them too if you can find them :-)...

And I don't need to google anything I already have them like I said... Nobody cares about random renderings of a remodel and yes all of their venues are built because none of them are designed for sports.. .We can go put our Taekwondo in Symphony Hall..

What's amusing is I never compared either city, I never said Bostons choices were better and I never said LA's were worse.

This group goes silent for weeks and then I post facts and announcements and then you automatically start attacking me personally, and everything you have said in here about boston you have said verbatim about LA in their thread.

Cool they have to build a new Airport to accommodate the Olympics, Boston's is already done. Cool they have to build an entire Public Transportation System from scratch, ours only needs to be upgraded which is already planned... That is comparing something I haven't done.

Rather then coming after me for posting actual facts attack the ignorant people who don't even know what the bids are. Like nacre who just said Boston has to tear down the city and build or have their Stadium at Gillette which has never been in the bid just the media. Or the whootsuite who accused Boston of being inexperienced and sketchy for not releasing a public bid book when LA released theirs before they were even short listed, half the projects have lost support since and were asked by the USOC to remove all bid books and renderings from online because none of the 4 cities were supposed to publish them yet.

There is not one file, pdf, photo that you have and I need. Guaranteed, hate all you want I havent been some upbeat BOSTON BOSTON person or everyone else sucks kinda guy so continue to ignore the facts and attack me instead of responding to the actual topic of conversation, it's par for the course on this thread since day one.

If it's worth anything, LA trumps Boston, in a way, with the points you've mentioned. If you do some number crunching, In just 2013 alone, LAX (Los Angeles' airport) managed to board about 32.5 million passengers in total. Additionally, 16.8 million of those passengers were international travelers, and about 1.7 tons of cargo was shipped through LAX. This is mainly due to LAX being a trang trans-Pacific hub, as well as an integral hub for North America. If you look at Boston Logan's Statistics, LAX tops all by carrying at least more than double Boston's load (29m, [not in top 10], and 685k respectively). As metioned before LA also has several smaller airports that can certainly take off load out of LAX.

In terms of public transportation, LA's Metro Rail still tops the BMTA, partially. Again, using 2013 statistics, there was 238,946,400 passenger boarding for the MBTA, significantly more than the LA Metro Rail's ridership of 114,790,200. However, the LA Metro does have the advantage when it comes to system length (which may be due to LA's spready-outy-ness). Boston has 64 miles of track, whilst LA has 87.7 miles (excluding regional rail for both cities). LA Metro also has the advantage in their BRT systems. You also seem very heavy on the fact that the MBTA "just needs upgrades". Let me just reassure you that Boston isn't unique in it's money-secured projects. LA is constructing about 5 new lines and/or extensions as well as planning another good handful of lines/extensions under planning. Aesthetically, Google Images certainly makes the LA Metro look more appealing (LA Metro // MBTA) architecturally, which is what their message is about right? (or is it diversity, same difference though). Let me also reassure you that Boston isn't the only one getting new cars as recent reports have been surfacing about LA Metro testing out their newest order of cars from Japan.

Funny how you claim to have facts when you clearly do not even understand what the city is like on the other side of the country. I'm sorry, but I going to have to temporarily exit my Krow-adoration mode just to slap some sense into you. Although LA has proven to be able to handle more that doesn't mean they do it well. I have no personal experience with this, but the fact that LAX and LA Metro are getting seriously revamped would suggest that they are ready for a surge, or at least thinking ahead (which I'm sure Boston is doing too).

They'll need at least 1 more arena, possibly a new Boston Garden.

Building an entirely new arena would destroy the 4.5b budget, wouldn't it?

Don't worry guys, if the main stadium will be temporary everything else will be too.

Atlanta 1996 ...er... I mean Boston 2024

If they have space for it. (I think someone mentioned it earlier, but) Boston since very compact, wouldn't the temporary facilities have some distance between them and the city center? Kinda burns the idea of "compact", doesn't it?

(Note: Advantages in terms of statistics and numberings)

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Remains to be seen. Look at what they did with Madison Square Garden here in the city. Obviously there's a little more history there than most places, but I'll be curious to see if this building boom continues. Right now the median age of NBA arenas is around 16 years. And if my count is correct, of the 30 NBA arenas currently in use, 19 of them opened between 1994 and 2005 (only 2 new ones have opened since then.. Orlando and Brooklyn). So let's see how long that crap of arenas lasts. A facelift for a place like TD Garden around 2024.. that's to be expected. But build a new arena from scratch to replace it? That I don't know about.

http://nhltoseattle.com/2012/08/19/life-expectancy-of-arenas/

so this actually finds (albeit some random with a website) that the average lifespan of an nhl/nba arena is 32 years or 38 years depending on what's averaged. If that is indeed correct, then td garden would be going on 29 years, nearly at the end of it's lifespan.

However, the poster does note some exceptionally poor arenas that had unusually short lifespans. Assuming that was incorporated into the findings, then that would skew the results although I wouldn't know how much.

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Boston is not going to build a second Boston Garden sized arena. There is no use for another arena of that size and moving the Celtics or Bruins out of that area to utilize a new arena would be incredibly unpopular. I also don't see why they would need a venue of that size if the sport we're trying to accommodate is indoor volleyball which does not require capacities that large. If we're building a new Garden for the sake of building a new venue then that seems to run contrary to the cheap games idea.

The question of renovating the arena or building a new Garden is really up to the Boston Bruins ownership anyways and isn't a necessary cost in the first place.

If they have space for it. (I think someone mentioned it earlier, but) Boston since very compact, wouldn't the temporary facilities have some distance between them and the city center? Kinda burns the idea of "compact", doesn't it?

There are a bunch of pockets of land for things to go in Boston, particularly if you are talking about a temporary venue.

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In doing some research, that 15,000 number doesn't seem right. Here are the volleyball venues for the last 7 Olympics (including Rio)

Rio - Maracanãzinho Arena (12,000)
London - Earls Court (15,000)
Beijing - Beijing Institute of Technology Gymnasium (5,000)
Athens - Peace and Friendship Stadium (not listed, probably approximately 13,000)
Sydney - The Dome and Exhbition Complex (10,000) + final at Sydney Entertainment Centre (11,000)
Atlanta - Stegeman Coliseum (10,000) ** - This venue was in Athens, GA which is a good 90 minutes outside of Atlanta + final at The Omni (16,500)
Barcelona - Palau dels Esports de Barcelona (8,000)
Only 1 hits 15,000. The rest are smaller.
It would help Boston to be able to produce an extra indoor arena or 2 with capacity of over 10,000. If the next best they have to go with after the Garden is Conte Forum, that could be a problem.
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In doing some research, that 15,000 number doesn't seem right. Here are the volleyball venues for the last 7 Olympics (including Rio)

Rio - Maracanãzinho Arena (12,000)

London - Earls Court (15,000)

Beijing - Beijing Institute of Technology Gymnasium (5,000)

Athens - Peace and Friendship Stadium (not listed, probably approximately 13,000)

Sydney - The Dome and Exhbition Complex (10,000) + final at Sydney Entertainment Centre (11,000)

Atlanta - Stegeman Coliseum (10,000) ** - This venue was in Athens, GA which is a good 90 minutes outside of Atlanta + final at The Omni (16,500)

Barcelona - Palau dels Esports de Barcelona (8,000)

Only 1 hits 15,000. The rest are smaller.

It would help Boston to be able to produce an extra indoor arena or 2 with capacity of over 10,000. If the next best they have to go with after the Garden is Conte Forum, that could be a problem.

15,000 is the number listed on official IOC documents. The numbers also change over the years, and 17,000 is the capacity of the final venue in Beijing.

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In doing some research, that 15,000 number doesn't seem right. Here are the volleyball venues for the last 7 Olympics (including Rio)

Rio - Maracanãzinho Arena (12,000)
London - Earls Court (15,000)
Beijing - Beijing Institute of Technology Gymnasium (5,000)
Athens - Peace and Friendship Stadium (not listed, probably approximately 13,000)
Sydney - The Dome and Exhbition Complex (10,000) + final at Sydney Entertainment Centre (11,000)
Atlanta - Stegeman Coliseum (10,000) ** - This venue was in Athens, GA which is a good 90 minutes outside of Atlanta + final at The Omni (16,500)
Barcelona - Palau dels Esports de Barcelona (8,000)
Only 1 hits 15,000. The rest are smaller.
It would help Boston to be able to produce an extra indoor arena or 2 with capacity of over 10,000. If the next best they have to go with after the Garden is Conte Forum, that could be a problem.

Those Numbers are actually incorrect as well... So are the "required" capacity, which they're not required. The IOC Recommends for each sport based on popularity but the final decision goes to each individual sports federation.

Here are the actual standards from the IOC:

"Technical Manual on Venues – Design Standards for Competition Venues"

  • 3.0 - Competition Venues:

This section outlines the number of competition venues and venue gross seating capacities, generic venue spaces and explains the method of developing the venue design standards and the structure of the matrices for competition venues.

Important Note

The Design Standards for Competition Venues are not requirements unless stated in the matrix and are established as a guide for venue design.

The number of competition venues and venue gross seating capacities are important components of venue design for the Olympic Games. There are certain variations in the number of venues and factors that influence venue gross seating capacities should be considered when determining the final number of venues and the final venue gross seating capacities.

Determining Final Venue Capacities:

For each Olympic Games these capacities must be considered with the following points in mind before determining final venue capacities:

• Capacity of any existing venue to be used,

• Capacity of any new venue for legacy use post-Games,

• Popularity of the sport in the host city, region and/or country or within the Olympic Games

• The ability to increase capacity on a temporary basis for Games use.

Venue Gross Seating Capacity - Summer

  • Volleyball - (PRE-LONDON)
    • ​Indoor - 12,000
    • Beach - 12,000
  • Volleyball - (POST-LONDON) - Because it was the largest & 5th most popular sport
    • ​Indoor - 15,000
    • Beach - 12,000

Actual Venue Capacities from each of the IOC's "Official Reports of The Games"

  • ATLANTA
    • Indoors:
      • Omni Coliseum (Pre,Semi,Quart,Final) - 16,500
      • University of George Coliseum (10 Prelims) - 10,000
    • Beach:
      • Atlanta Beach (Stadium Court) - 9,600
      • Atlanta Beach (Grandstand Court) - 3,000
  • SYDNEY
    • Indoors:
      • Sydney Entertainment Centre - 11,000
      • Sydney Showgrown Pavilion 4, SOP - 6,000
    • Beach:
      • Bondi Beach - 10,000
  • ATHENS
    • Indoors:
      • The Peace and Friendship Stadium - 13,200
    • Beach:
      • Faliro Olympic Beach Volleyball Centre - 9,600
  • BEIJING
    • Indoors:
      • Capital Gymnasium - 17,000
      • Beijing Institute of Technology Gymnasium - 3,680
    • Beach:
      • Chaoyang Park Beach Volleyball Court - 12,000
  • LONDON
    • Indoors:
      • Earls Court Exhibition Centre - 15,000
    • Beach:
      • Horse Guards Parade - 15,000
  • RIO
    • Indoors:
      • Maracanãzinho Arena - 12,000
    • Beach:
      • Copacabana Stadium - 12,000
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(sigh) So.. I'm right on Rio, London, Athens, and Atlanta, wrong on the other 2. See Rik, this is 1 of those situations where you did far better research and have better information than I do (that's what I get for doing a quick and dirty search on Wikipedia), and you're right. But is it necessary to be a dick about it? I have a lot more respect for your knowledge and expertise right now, although I still wonder why you still only post in the Boston thread and not elsewhere since clearly you have more of an interest in Olympic bidding than we gave you credit for.

Thank you for sharing this with us and yea, in a respect, making some of us look foolish. I guess we deserve that on this one. Nevertheless, we haven't forgotten your history here, so (and not to speak for everyone else here) wouldn't it be more fun to play nice with us rather than to take any questioning of a Boston 2024 Olympic bid as a personal insult? You obviously have some good insight and information to offer, but if you're going to continue to post in the Boston bid and nowhere else on this site, forgive the rest of us for being a little confused as to what you're interested in here and what information you are or aren't able to contribute.

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(sigh) So.. I'm right on Rio, London, Athens, and Atlanta, wrong on the other 2. See Rik, this is 1 of those situations where you did far better research and have better information than I do (that's what I get for doing a quick and dirty search on Wikipedia), and you're right. But is it necessary to be a dick about it? I have a lot more respect for your knowledge and expertise right now, although I still wonder why you still only post in the Boston thread and not elsewhere since clearly you have more of an interest in Olympic bidding than we gave you credit for.

Thank you for sharing this with us and yea, in a respect, making some of us look foolish. I guess we deserve that on this one. Nevertheless, we haven't forgotten your history here, so (and not to speak for everyone else here) wouldn't it be more fun to play nice with us rather than to take any questioning of a Boston 2024 Olympic bid as a personal insult? You obviously have some good insight and information to offer, but if you're going to continue to post in the Boston bid and nowhere else on this site, forgive the rest of us for being a little confused as to what you're interested in here and what information you are or aren't able to contribute.

LOL I wasn't being a dick at all I was just clarifying since 18 people have said 18 different things in the last 24hrs, but you were a dick right there... Per usual.

LOL I wasn't being a dick at all I was just clarifying since 18 people have said 18 different things in the last 24hrs, but you were a dick right there... Per usual.

You're literally ridiculous... absolutely nothing I said had anything to do with me wanting Boston to win the Bid or Not! I have only said 100 times I think we should be the first US city to bid for the YOUTH Olympics LOL.. I don't take anything about this personally until you ATTACK me directly. Everytime I post actual information you instally come at me rather than talking about the facts and topic..

LOL I wasn't being a dick at all I was just clarifying since 18 people have said 18 different things in the last 24hrs, but you were a dick right there... Per usual.

You're literally ridiculous... absolutely nothing I said had anything to do with me wanting Boston to win the Bid or Not! I have only said 100 times I think we should be the first US city to bid for the YOUTH Olympics LOL.. I don't take anything about this personally until you ATTACK me directly. Everytime I post actual information you instally come at me rather than talking about the facts and topic..

And to answer your question, this is the #1 thread with views and responses far above USA and everything else except "Toronto" and thats only because it was started 3 years before the Boston one. There is no need for me to post in the others when all of the cities get talked about in here...

Also I have looked at those threads and quite a few people have taken the negative things they said verbatim about those cities and said them in here about Boston lol.

I Was not trying to be rude I was just trying to post factual statistics without getting yelled at for putting any personal feelings in it but you put those in there for me :-(

LOL I wasn't being a dick at all I was just clarifying since 18 people have said 18 different things in the last 24hrs, but you were a dick right there... Per usual.

You're literally ridiculous... absolutely nothing I said had anything to do with me wanting Boston to win the Bid or Not! I have only said 100 times I think we should be the first US city to bid for the YOUTH Olympics LOL.. I don't take anything about this personally until you ATTACK me directly. Everytime I post actual information you instally come at me rather than talking about the facts and topic..

And to answer your question, this is the #1 thread with views and responses far above USA and everything else except "Toronto" and thats only because it was started 3 years before the Boston one. There is no need for me to post in the others when all of the cities get talked about in here...

Also I have looked at those threads and quite a few people have taken the negative things they said verbatim about those cities and said them in here about Boston lol.

I Was not trying to be rude I was just trying to post factual statistics without getting yelled at for putting any personal feelings in it but you put those in there for me :-(

And by "those figures" I should have said Wikipedia's since that's what I meant, I apologize.

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Atlanta - Stegeman Coliseum (10,000) ** - This venue was in Athens, GA which is a good 90 minutes outside of Atlanta + final at The Omni (16,500)

Women's indoor prelims were in Athens; men's competition was entirely at the Omni. During the women's semi-finals, they moved them to Omni. I did watch some of the early men's games at the Omni and a friend worked the women's games there too.

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^and I guess that Rik was right about this one:

:P

And to be fair to Rik, his comment probably wasn't directed solely at me, so I shouldn't have gone off on him like that. I should know better since clearly he has not mastered the quote function. And shame on me for trying to use a "well you're the guy that.." argument against him. How very FYI of me :P:D:lol::ph34r:

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And to be fair to Rik, his comment probably wasn't directed solely at me, so I shouldn't have gone off on him like that. I should know better since clearly he has not mastered the quote function.

Uh huh, right. He specifically quoted the post where you called him a dick. So it's pretty clear who he directed that line, too. Not to mention, it's mainly you & he who are having this serious Boston "debate". But whatever you have to tell yourself there. ^_^

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Uh huh, right. He specifically quoted the post where you called him a dick. So it's pretty clear who he directed that line, too. Not to mention, it's mainly you & he who are having this serious Boston "debate". But whatever you have to tell yourself there. ^_^

Right, so that's what prompted you to enter this one by calling us hypocrites. So I'm a little confused now.. which 1 of us is the pot and which one is the kettle? B)

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@Rik IOC requirements do not really matter if they can not meet the USOC requirements.

dynamic-overriding-2-728.jpg?cb=12341633

Seriously though.. the USOC's "requirements" are like the IOC's. They are guidelines. If Boston or whoever wants to offer up a stadium that has less than the required capacity, that's not a deal-breaker, but obviously it means they have to make up for it somewhere else. This is a competition. These bids will get compared to each other. If 1 of them is lacking in 1 area, chances are the other bids are lacking elsewhere. Is Boston not an acceptable bid if their stadium holds 79,900 instead of 80,000? Obviously not. It's probably a mark against them, but this is where Rik is correct about changing attitudes within the IOC. The idea is to work with the candidate cities, not simply to give them a list of requirements that they have to satisfy, no questions asked. I have to imagine the USOC is taking a similar tact considering the manner in which they're likely working with these cities.

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dynamic-overriding-2-728.jpg?cb=12341633

Seriously though.. the USOC's "requirements" are like the IOC's. They are guidelines. If Boston or whoever wants to offer up a stadium that has less than the required capacity, that's not a deal-breaker, but obviously it means they have to make up for it somewhere else. This is a competition. These bids will get compared to each other. If 1 of them is lacking in 1 area, chances are the other bids are lacking elsewhere. Is Boston not an acceptable bid if their stadium holds 79,900 instead of 80,000? Obviously not. It's probably a mark against them, but this is where Rik is correct about changing attitudes within the IOC. The idea is to work with the candidate cities, not simply to give them a list of requirements that they have to satisfy, no questions asked. I have to imagine the USOC is taking a similar tact considering the manner in which they're likely working with these cities.

No, but when you have LA proposing and 90,000 - 100,000 historic stadium as the main stadium then these little nit picky things do matter. If Boston can come up with a brilliant plan and make up somewhere else then so be it, but until then this little things will add up.

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