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Germany 2024

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How is it "ironic". For starters, Sochi & PC are Winter Olympics, where the credible field for options are getting smaller & soon the IOC is going to have to start looking at repeat host. And I don't take Bach more at his word anymore than some of you take Nawal at hers.

And how do you exactly know that an Istanbul win "kills Europe" & that it'll be a fight between "Canada", the US & South Africa. Do you have inside info or something. Especially when it's far from certain that any of them will bid at all, not to mention how all 115+ IOC members would vote, tbw. Sounds to me the only ones with an "agenda" here, are the ones that accuse others of such.

And your post further shows you are a hypocrit. You said again and again and again that Sochi damages the chances of Europe for 2018 because it was European, despite what others say but you now say that Istanbul, another European city, is sufficiently different from Western European to allow back-to-back European games, something that hasn't happened since 1952.

The information is that there has been no back-to-back European games in 60 years and it is not going to happen now, Istanbul, a European city, will kill any chance of the Europeans taking 2024 unless only Europe bids. Istanbul win would prompt the COC to bid with Toronto. And the USOC would be stupid to sit out a bid race where the Koreans, Japanese (Tokyo is not going to bid again), Brazilians and Chinese are not in the picture.

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Durban over Cape Town? What would be the reason behind Durban over Cape Town if South Africa bids.

Green Ponit Stadium is a fully soccer stadium, in contrast with Moses Bahida Stadium can be expanded to 80,000 plus has athletics track , thats their main argument perhaps.

Sadlly Thomas Bach is opposing a Munich 2022 bid :(

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I think it's clear London was great for the Olympics. The jury is still out on whether the Olympics were good for London. We won't know for years whether London will be another Barcelona, or another Athens.

It'll be neither. We're a much bigger city than Barcelona so the Olympics will not have the city-wide impact Barclona managed, and the use of temporary venues etc means I don't think managing legacy will prove a problem as it has with Athens.

I don't think the jury is out at all. It's worth Googling how the 'Olympic Park' looked in 2002/3 with fridge dumps, abandoned warehouses, pylons, polluted waterways etc. Whether the Games were value for money and, getting back to the topic at hand, whether other European governments will see the Olympics as the best or most efficient way of regenerating an area in light of London is a different question of course. They may not, they may think it's too much hassle. But I don't think there's much doubt the impact has been positive for London.

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And your post further shows you are a hypocrit. You said again and again and again that Sochi damages the chances of Europe for 2018 because it was European,

The information is that there has been no back-to-back European games in 60 years and it is not going to happen now, Istanbul, a European city, will kill any chance of the Europeans taking 2024 unless only Europe bids.

I don't think that I said anything that's anymore "hypocritical" about 2018 than you saying now that South Africa would be in the 2024 "fight" with the U.S. & "Canada" when you've "said again & again & again" that South Africa's chances are over-rated, particularly bcuz of Nawal.

I always acknowledged that Munich was a huge contender for 2018, even though I thought that PC had the edge. I always gave Munich more of a chance than you ever did with PC, citing that the vote should be easy considering "the IOC had to chose from 'Podunk' Korea or metropolitan Germany". Looks like the IOC wanted the former.

I don't think that we can take things that for granted when it comes to the unpredictable IOC. "Never" is too strong a word & Istanbul is ambiguously European to hold such a notion that sacred. Many also cite that Tokyo can't win 2020 bcuz of PC 2018. But I'm sure that's not what the Japanese think, & some believe that Tokyo can win come Sept.

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I dont see Olympic Summer Games in Germany. The Games are bigger now. Germany has a very good sports infra-structure does not need desperately new arenas or stadiums. Furthermore Munich is still paying the bill of the 72 Games. The Olympic Park needs millions of Euros every year and the City can not afford it. Berlin has already a huge debt and it wont get much public support, since Berliners are very lazy.

I do support Munich 2022!

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I think it's clear London was great for the Olympics. The jury is still out on whether the Olympics were good for London. We won't know for years whether London will be another Barcelona, or another Athens.

I do think London's being such a great host will move the selection needle back towards established world cities and away from new frontiers, especially if Rio stumbles in any way.

I think we should wait until after 2016 before we judge about Rio 2016
Turkey in the world of sports and for the IOC is a European country and the Istanbul 2020 bid is a bid from a European city
and represent an European NOC
I'm not sure if Istanbul 2020 will kill any European bid for 2024 but at least it will hurt them
if Tokyo wins the Olympics can back to Europe in 2024 ( Paris,Rome,Madrid or Istanbul ) going to North America in 2028 ( Toronto/american city) and Africa in 2032
for the summer games after Oceania in 2000 , Asia in 2008 and possibly 2020 and Europe 2004, 2012,2024
the Olympics should visit Africa ( if they are ready and want to host the games) and go back again to North America after 1996
if Istanbul wins I think it will be the time for North america . they will have a big chance
I'm not sure about Durban and maybe Casablanca
Istanbul and Madrid may also hurt any Moroccan bid because of the geographical location with Madrid and religious/culture relations with Istanbul
Durban I doubt they can win the first bid but it will be a good experience for them for the next bid 2028/2032 when they should win it
here I see Toronto and the american bid as a front-runner for 2024
for Germany it's time for Munich
no other city in the 2022 race can be better choice than them especially after their 2018 bid experience
Oslo and st. Moritz have some issues with public support
Beijing is a bad choice for china if they go with it for the winter games
Krakow, Lviv and Sarajevo are not strong enough to compete against Munich
It's a golden opportunity for them
first city to host the summer and winter Olympics
2022 exactly 50 years after Munich 1972 Summer games
Germany a winter sports power didn't host the games since 1936 when the nazis were in the role
also I doubt Berlin will be the front runner against Paris, Rome and Madrid even if Tomas Bach is the president of the IOC
and that also if Tokyo wins the 2020 race otherwise North America will be a big rival for Europe in the 2024 race
it will be much easier for Munich to win 2022 race than Berlin or hamburg for 2024
again and again sorry for my bad English !

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I dont see Olympic Summer Games in Germany. The Games are bigger now. Germany has a very good sports infra-structure does not need desperately new arenas or stadiums. Furthermore Munich is still paying the bill of the 72 Games. The Olympic Park needs millions of Euros every year and the City can not afford it. Berlin has already a huge debt and it wont get much public support, since Berliners are very lazy.

I do support Munich 2022!

This is news to me. If Munich is still paying the bill for the 1972 Games, then why should this be a barrier to another German city, but not to Munich itself for 2022?

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You (FYI) said again and again and again that Sochi damages the chances of Europe for 2018 because it was European, despite what others say but you now say that Istanbul, another European city, is sufficiently different from Western European to allow back-to-back European games, something that hasn't happened since 1952.

The information is that there has been no back-to-back European games in 60 years and it is not going to happen now, Istanbul, a European city, will kill any chance of the Europeans taking 2024 unless only Europe bids. Istanbul win would prompt the COC to bid with Toronto. And the USOC would be stupid to sit out a bid race where the Koreans, Japanese (Tokyo is not going to bid again), Brazilians and Chinese are not in the picture.

During the 2018 race, I was the first to say that Sochi being European should count against Europe. But I was biased, and Munich had an equally strong case that Sochi wasn't a traditional European location, and that given the small number of choices, it shouldn't count against them. The IOC really could've gone either way (Sochi being European or not), and wouldn't be wrong in any choice. Istanbul is also kinda in that grey area where the IOC could choose to look at it in either direction, and they again wouldn't be wrong, despite how they voted in any earlier race.

Istanbul might actually make it worse for South Africa than it could for Europe (as you've said before), if the IOC puts Istanbul together with Rio in classifying them as frontier hosts, and thinks it's time to go back to NA/Europe for 2024. I do agree that Istanbul is the best for Toronto. Madrid is good for Toronto too.

Edited for German content: Go Berlin.

Edited by Gangwon

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I dont see Olympic Summer Games in Germany. The Games are bigger now. Germany has a very good sports infra-structure does not need desperately new arenas or stadiums. Furthermore Munich is still paying the bill of the 72 Games. The Olympic Park needs millions of Euros every year and the City can not afford it. Berlin has already a huge debt and it wont get much public support, since Berliners are very lazy.

I do support Munich 2022!

For Berlin, it's a perfect excuse to get a Football purpose stadium of at least 50,000 capacity.

A Berlin games would probably require 2 new arenas, to host Handball, Volleyball and Basketball Preliminaries in an arena type setting. These would be temporary.

Most indoor sports would be held in the existing convention center, Boxing in Max-Schmeling-Halle, Basketball and Gymnastics in the O2 World. Swimming at the Swimming Stadium and a new Aquatics facility and Track Cycling at the Velodrom.

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I think we should wait until after 2016 before we judge about Rio 2016
Turkey in the world of sports and for the IOC is a European country and the Istanbul 2020 bid is a bid from a European city
and represent an European NOC
I'm not sure if Istanbul 2020 will kill any European bid for 2024 but at least it will hurt them
if Tokyo wins the Olympics can back to Europe in 2024 ( Paris,Rome,Madrid or Istanbul ) going to North America in 2028 ( Toronto/american city) and Africa in 2032
for the summer games after Oceania in 2000 , Asia in 2008 and possibly 2020 and Europe 2004, 2012,2024
the Olympics should visit Africa ( if they are ready and want to host the games) and go back again to North America after 1996
if Istanbul wins I think it will be the time for North america . they will have a big chance
I'm not sure about Durban and maybe Casablanca
Istanbul and Madrid may also hurt any Moroccan bid because of the geographical location with Madrid and religious/culture relations with Istanbul
Durban I doubt they can win the first bid but it will be a good experience for them for the next bid 2028/2032 when they should win it
here I see Toronto and the american bid as a front-runner for 2024
for Germany it's time for Munich
no other city in the 2022 race can be better choice than them especially after their 2018 bid experience
Oslo and st. Moritz have some issues with public support
Beijing is a bad choice for china if they go with it for the winter games
Krakow, Lviv and Sarajevo are not strong enough to compete against Munich
It's a golden opportunity for them
first city to host the summer and winter Olympics
2022 exactly 50 years after Munich 1972 Summer games
Germany a winter sports power didn't host the games since 1936 when the nazis were in the role
also I doubt Berlin will be the front runner against Paris, Rome and Madrid even if Tomas Bach is the president of the IOC
and that also if Tokyo wins the 2020 race otherwise North America will be a big rival for Europe in the 2024 race
it will be much easier for Munich to win 2022 race than Berlin or hamburg for 2024
again and again sorry for my bad English !

Interesting to read your thoughts.

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This is news to me. If Munich is still paying the bill for the 1972 Games, then why should this be a barrier to another German city, but not to Munich itself for 2022?

The Olympic Park needs money to repair something or to modernize the swimming pool. Every intra-structure needs money. But apart from that Munich had the best concept for the stadium, arena and village after the Games. The Park was frequently visited and it belongs to the most visited Olympic Parks in history.

2022 wouldn't be such a problem, since the majority of arenas are already in place.

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The Olympic Park needs money to repair something or to modernize the swimming pool. Every intra-structure needs money. But apart from that Munich had the best concept for the stadium, arena and village after the Games. The Park was frequently visited and it belongs to the most visited Olympic Parks in history.

2022 wouldn't be such a problem, since the majority of arenas are already in place.

Paying for the upkeep of the 1972 facilities is a given, and unavoidable. Your original post made it seem like Munich was in a more dire financial position than Montreal - which it wasn't.

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I dont see Olympic Summer Games in Germany. The Games are bigger now. Germany has a very good sports infra-structure does not need desperately new arenas or stadiums. Furthermore Munich is still paying the bill of the 72 Games. The Olympic Park needs millions of Euros every year and the City can not afford it. Berlin has already a huge debt and it wont get much public support, since Berliners are very lazy.

I do support Munich 2022!

First of all, I think every citizen of Berlin wouldn't call himself/herself lazy...

I suppose you mean that the financial situation of Berlin is not good - do you have any proof that Munich is "still" paying for the 72' Games? I never heard that before and I think Munich wouldn't have bid for 2018, if this is true. Of course the venues including the Olympic Park has to be maintained - when I was at the Olympic Park two years ago and I didn't see that the city can't afford it to maintain the Olympic Park...

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European countries will never vote in favor of Berlin in 2024 because if Germany takes summer Olympics these countries will pay the bill of costs as they do now for Germany. All this "euro-zone economic crisis" is nothing else than Germany's plan to strengthen its economy that damaged with the unification in 1990, and they are speculating against other Europe poor countries

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I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of those who support Munich 2022.

I'd be open to Berlin SOGs, but not in 2024.

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All this "euro-zone economic crisis" is nothing else than Germany's plan to strengthen its economy that damaged with the unification in 1990, and they are speculating against other Europe poor countries

:blink::blink::blink:

... do you mean the "Euro-zone financial crisis" was a plan from Mrs. Merkel that the "poor EURO-zone countries" pay Germany's reunification?

That sounds very like a "stab-in-the-back-legend" by people, who like to make debts to increase their life-standard without never repaying the debts...

There are several reasons of the financial crisis - not one single...

Edited by Citius Altius Fortius

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Berlin has a great and photogenic olympic stadium, but most of the venues should be built. However the legacy can be in favor of Berlin's potential bid. Berlin-Brandenbrug Airport will open after many delays in October. Why not? But the public support can be lower than a Munich winter bid. But, imagine if Germany tries with another city, Hamburg will be the best option in that case.

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If, hypothetically, the Winter Olympics were totally ruled out and the Summer Games were the only option for Germany, I'd say Hamburg is the standout choice for a third German Summer Olympics. A Munich Summer Games would cut too close to the bone (in a way I dont think a WOG would), and Berlin has its Nazi era baggage too... if there is a third city capable, why not go there? Hamburg has water access too.

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Please, try first with Munich... It won't dissapoint! ;) Berlin can try in 2024 still be a big deal for other bids, but Germany deserves WOG first!

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I have said this before, Germany's sport establisment's recent public push to get a Olympic Games project going is out of a desire to emmulate the unprecedented success of the United Kingdom in using the event as a springboard for additional funding and sports development. Germany may have hosted the Olympic Winter Games 80 years ago, but Germany does not need them to boast performance and participation in winter sport (even the rapid addition of non-traditional sports, which has hurt France, Italy and Russia to the benefit of Canada and the United States has larger spared Germany).

France and Paris want to host the Olympic Games as a catalyst for change within the city and to spur on development and redevelopment of the city. Paris is largerly being left-behind by other continental cities and their 21st century projects. I hate to say this, but in every sense London is the premier city of Europe and would be with or without the Olympics. Paris wants the Olympics to regain some lost status.

Spain and Madrid comes from a dual desire to continue to establish Spain as an important European country and part of the Italy, France, Germany, United Kingdom group but also motivated by being beaten to the punch by its provincial city of Barcelona. Madrid and Barcelona have the same complicated relationship that Sydney and Melbourne, Toronto and Montreal have. The desire for the Olympics comes from the desire to be better than Barcelona.

Germany and Berlin in many ways do not need the Olympics. The desire to host comes more from a need to develop and modernize Germany's sports infrastructure. Berlin would still greatly benefit from development and extra federal money but at the heart of any German bid there would be sport.

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A Berlin, Munich, or Hamburg Summer Games is on the list of events I would like to see happen in my lifetime. I'd love to see the Games in a German summer.

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Please, try first with Munich... It won't dissapoint! ;) Berlin can try in 2024 still be a big deal for other bids, but Germany deserves WOG first!

If Munich fails with another Winter attempt, I wouldn't be surprised if a Summer Games bid from them comes (should Berlin fail).

The city could probably justify a new arena and aquatics center, whilst using the existing venues from 1972, the Munich Messe and other existing venues.

The Olympic Stadium could see a proper upgrade to a minimum of 70,000 spectator places. An athletes village could be built near the 1972 one. Or it could even be an expansion of the existing village, where existing tenancies will be logically expired in the lead up of the Games, allowing for the old village to perhaps be renovated for use by athletes or even media/volunteers.

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seems like the race for 2022 get weaker and weaker before it even started

Swiss seems to be out now, Sweden seems not to bid, austria seems not to bid
the door is open for Munich, but it would be typically for germany no to bid

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A Munich WOG 2022 is very apporiate it would be fifty years after it hosted the SG in 1972. The impact of the Winter Games is small compare to summer. Germans love winter sport, a winter Olympics would be best.

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