baron-pierreIV Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I actually thought it might be enjoyable and eye-opening. I didn't say you didn't know what aesthete means either. Eye-opening for whom? Excuse me. Get off your holier-than-thou-sh*t, Ath, Y don't u just stuff it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Eye-opening for whom? Excuse me. Get off your holier-than-thou-sh*t, Ath, Y don't u just stuff it? Well, it was eye-opening for me actually. I had never seen anything quite like it. I had no idea about the breadth of Papaioannou's background. I really liked the videos and I thought you might enjoy them too. They're not Olympic -- just a cool work of art. None of this is holier than thou. If you don't want to check it out -- fine. I just thought it was interesting. If anybody else is curious, here it is: Just to clarify -- I'm not saying this is the best thing since sliced bread. I just think there are some intriguing ideas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Fair warning -- that video is PG-13, flirting with R...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Parts are.... uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Wow, I love it. Reminds me of Robert Wilson, who (according to Wiki) Papaioannou was mentored by. Wilson is a Berlin based American theatre director, arguably the world's best. Here's hoping for a Robert Wilson-directed, supremely avant-garde take on Americana at the opening ceremony of Chicago 2024! Baron will love it! After Jetpacks, Cheerleaders and Morman choirs, I think the next American Olympics should really spell out the power and influence of American arts, culture and intellectualism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yes. Wilson is cool. Plays with wacky semiotics. I like Pappaioannou's lyricism and musicality though. He's got such a beautiful sense of timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 DP may be great in a proscenium theater setting where you DON'T have to perform required protocol parts and you don't have to worry about TV cameras, but for a 4-hour huge stadium, international ceremony, he missed his mark by a wide shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Here's hoping for a Robert Wilson-directed, supremely avant-garde take on Americana at the opening ceremony of Chicago 2024! Baron will love it! After Jetpacks, Cheerleaders and Morman choirs, I think the next American Olympics should really spell out the power and influence of American arts, culture and intellectualism. I'm really not a fan of the avante-garde. How do you know what I will love or not? And I resent your cheeky implication about the "Jetpacks, Cheerleaders and Mormon choirs." They are all part of the American landscape and the character of the host cities-- why should they be oddly out of place in the respective Ceremonies in which they appeared? As I have stated before, I never said that I "loved" their inclusion. I just accepted them as part of the scene--and there was nothing I could do to change them; so I just accept them as part and parcel of a show. Now, I know what you and AF will say...well, why not think the same way about 2004? Well, I don't. You and I and AF are all 3 different individuals and things just strike us differently. Pardon me for thinking that 2004 was a greatly flawed show. After all, even the creator himself, D. Papaioannou, thought so afterwards. And I think his published post-mortem remarks were a validation that the show was not all it was cracked up to be I mean if the creator himself came out publicly that he would have changed many things in the program had there been the chance -- not to mention the fact that he also publicly admitted that he was "...never a big fan of the Olympics..." to start with, all of that really undercut his credibility in my eyes as someone whose work in that particular genre should be taken seriously at all. Having stated that, and when one is so slavishly entranced by the finished product, I can only wonder on the depth of another's appreciation and naivete if DP had created something out of used toilet paper, if people would've also bought that? I mean, some so-called avante-garde "artists" (Mr. Dali I believe might be one of them) one, are known to have actually laughed behind their fans' backs and say something to the effect...that they actually bought that sh*t. I don't doubt that that still happens. After all, scams still happen everyday in this world. And pardon me if I happen to laugh along in the same vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Baron, I don't know what anyone will or won't "love". I said I thought you "might enjoy" it because i thought you were interested in performance. I also said that if you're not interested, that's fine. What's the problem? Parts of Papiaoannou are more avant grade than others. There are sections that seem more likely to have broad appeal. Papaioannou's career is actually not limited to proscenium spaces (though the particular video I posted was shot in a proscenium theater). As for working in the round, in a stadium, I thought Papaioannou did a great job (though I DID get the back if the Cycladic head because I was exactly opposite the press corps -- which was a bummer). Even if it were true that the ceremony didn't work in the round, so far you have emphasized your tv background and how the OC didn't work on tv. There's not really a tv problem with a one-sided show. I enjoy watching the OC on DVD. The protocol sections didn't drag for me and I really liked the music surrounding them. Plus, the entrance of the Greek flag was magical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I honestly don't think it matters if Pappaioannou was a fan of the Olympics before he took the job. He could not have created the show he did without a great deal of loving forethought. I actually think his background (which I wouldn't even call avant garde -- it gets a heck of a lot more avant garde than DP) enabled him to push the limits of previous OC's and create a work of art as opposed to a mere entertainment. He toned down his more unorthodox sensibilities and delivered an OC that was accessible, but surprising and arresting. Obviously you don't agree. I don't have a problem with that. Im just articulating my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 that was accessible, I think that its 'accessibility' was the least apparent quality it had--as expressed by the few here who have dared to express their opinion of the subject. It really was a cold show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Baron, of course you can express your opinion. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trying to silence you. I suppose it depends on how you define "accessible". If by accessible you mean "pop culture," then Athens doesn't fit the bill. If by accessible you mean readily understandable and coherently structured, then I think Athens was great. I also have to challenge your statement that Pappaioannou himself thought the show was "deeply flawed." According to the interview you posted, he said that four years later he would do some things differently. EVERY artist would do things differently four years later. That isn't tantamount to saying, "Man, I really screwed up. That OC was lousy." I also think it's worth noting that because the OC was so highly praised by international media and within Greece that DP could well have trying to be humble and self-effacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 That isn't tantamount to saying, "Man, I really screwed up. That OC was lousy." Well, it's open to interpretation. But it was enough that he had major regrets that he would have redone had it been possible. And when you change something in one part, it could impact other sections, too. So, in effect, if he had the chance to redo it; then serious changes would've taken place. I also think it's worth noting that because the OC was so highly praised by international media and within Greece that DP could well have trying to be humble and self-effacing. 4 years after? Nah. He just screwed up big time the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 "Major regrets"? You're putting words in his mouth. DP never said that. As I've said, every artist would do things differently 4 years later. That doesn't say anything about the quality of the OC. Seeing as you are so opposed to DP's vision and style anyway, I strongly suspect you would like his redo of Athens' OC even less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Well, we'll never know, will we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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