msp2032 Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I wonder what are people's thoughts about if Berlin, Germany were to bid for the 2036 summer games(assuming that Germany does not win any bids before). It would be the 100th Anniversary of Jesse Owen's remarkable gold medal run. I think Germany is one nation that deserves a another chance to host. Yes, Hitler and the Nazis were around, but that was a completely different country. Another Berlin games could send a message that while the German people will never be able to put the past behind, there is a beacon of hope for the future. My vision for the Opening Ceremony would there would be somekind of tribute to Jesse Owens as well as other multi cultural athletes in Germany that made their mark. Another idea that would be interesting would be the Opening Ceremony could be built around Wagner's Ring Cycle or Grimm's Fairytales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufus Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'd very much doubt that the Germans could bid for 2036, and pretty much certain Berlin couldn't big the host city if they did. I think they'd struggle to be in the next 2 European hosts anyway, but the history of 1936 can only hurt their chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 And yet it looks like the IOC is going to elect an German president next year - go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Berlin would be a great place for the Olympics to return to, but I don't think they would go with 2036. Too many ghosts in that number. It will even be the 36th Olympiad. I think Germany's focus might first be on the Winter Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luffy Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Really a celebration of the 100th anniversary of Hilter & the Nazi's olympics??? Courbertin's sympathy for the Nazi (at least in the begining) & one of the worst and most hated man in the world opening the ceremony is not somethings IOC & Germany & the world wants to remember. Now Germany can host a winter or a summer for sure in the future, but not 2036. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Why not 2024? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksheep Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'd very much doubt that the Germans could bid for 2036, and pretty much certain Berlin couldn't big the host city if they did. I think they'd struggle to be in the next 2 European hosts anyway, but the history of 1936 can only hurt their chances. Berlin already has a major stadium, world class velodrome, multiple indoor arenas, and a swimming centre which could be easily updated. In terms of infrastructure they are about to open the Berlin-Brandenburg airport, a massive new international air hub. I've not sure why you think they cannot host the games As for 2036, is it a centenial celebration, or is a opportunity to celebrate the feets of Jesse Owens and banish the unpleasant memories of 1936. If Tokyo wins 2020, Paris 2024, South Africa 2028, the USA 2032, then were are rolling around to Europe being a strong applicant in 2036 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Love to see the Olympics in Berlin... and sooner rather than later. And while I'm only half serious with this next comment... this 100th anniversary thing could be great. Far too much time, money and angst goes into picking host cities. Maybe the IOC should first offer each games to the host from 100 years ago. If they are willing and able, they get it. Otherwise we move on to the traditional bid thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Maybe the IOC should first offer each games to the host from 100 years ago. If they are willing and able, they get it. Otherwise we move on to the traditional bid thing. I actually kinda like this idea. But I wonder how many would cry foul then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luffy Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Why not 2024? True. Chances are probably a little lower than Paris & Madrid for a victory but after two fails winter games bids it would be a strong contender. Same goes with Rome. But i still think Istanbul takes 2020 & a US/SA or Canadian city is winning 2024:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Well, right after "London 2012" and the great welcome of the German London team in Hamburg were several articles in newspapers and German websites about another German bid. It seems that Hamburg and Berlin are interested to bid for Summer Olympics and Munich for Winter Olympics - the reply of the DOSB is still that there is no hurry to announce a bid - it wants to wait with a bid announcement after the 2020 decision. Furthermore it expects that the politicians and the majority of the people support the/a bid. Katarina Witt gave an interview, in which she asked the people to give up the nagging about bad sides of sports, large events etc. etc. - if they want that Germany stays a "world power" in sport it has to "inspire a generation" by hosting Olympic Games! I doubt that the IOC pays attention to celebrate anniversaries - like Paris 2024, USA 2032 or Berlin 1936 etc. etc. - I think it focusses on the best bid for the participating athletes (and of course earning money and the circumstances for the "Olympic Family", but thats o.k.) When Germany wants to bid then it should bid as soon as possible!!! If the bid is very well prepared and offer Germany as a stage for 16 wonderful days of an international event like it did e.g. in 2006 with the Football World Cup or in 2009 with the World Championships in Athletics then a German bid has a good chance in the international competition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisMinor Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 The previous two times that Berlin got awarded a SOG, they responded with World War 1 and 2. I think this should be enough reason to not give Berlin another crack at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Fan Darcy Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Nah, to be honest i'd much rather Russia or Spain. Moscow, Madrid, Tokyo/Istanbul, Toronto, Singapore. Not that i don't like Germany but probably go for a winter games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 The previous two times that Berlin got awarded a SOG, they responded with World War 1 and 2. I think this should be enough reason to not give Berlin another crack at it! ...ROFL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'd have no problem with THAT year for a Berlin Games. I'd trust Germany to get the balance right. You can't ignore 1936, especially if there's to be a Berlin Games on the 100th anniversary, but nor should it be dwelt upon. I did the audio tour of the Berlin Olympic Stadium 3 years ago, and it was so interesting to hear how Germany itself reflects upon those Games and the architecture surrounding them. From that hour alone, I'm quite sure Germany wouldn't miss the mark were they awarded 2036. And of course, the 2036 football tournament would be great spread around famous German cities like Munich, Dortmund, Athens, Madrid etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 No, if Germany was to mark any date, I would rather it be 1948-2048 or 2052.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luffy Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Let's all stop that date crap. All Germany has to do is wait the year favours europe and make a bid. After that between all the major europeans cities, it's hard to guess who will win a Madrid, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Berlin bid if all the bid have the qualities needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plusbrilliantsexploits Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 It seems that Hamburg and Berlin are interested to bid for Summer Olympics and Munich for Winter Olympics - the reply of the DOSB is still that there is no hurry to announce a bid - it wants to wait with a bid announcement after the 2020 decision. Furthermore it expects that the politicians and the majority of the people support the/a bid. Katarina Witt gave an interview, in which she asked the people to give up the nagging about bad sides of sports, large events etc. etc. - if they want that Germany stays a "world power" in sport it has to "inspire a generation" by hosting Olympic Games! When Germany wants to bid then it should bid as soon as possible!!! To start with, I'm on record as being a passionate supporter of the Summer and Winter Games being held in German cities sometime soon. Nonetheless, I honestly don't think our sports officials or the federal government would be so inanely stupid and back a bid for securing the Games of the Olympiad exactly a century after the National Socialists used the Olympics as a propaganda stage for their hateful ideology of racial superiority. Even bidding for Berlin 2036 would bring back a political discussion about, 1) the necessity of the Olympic Games, 2) the appropriateness of Berlin 3) the appropriateness of the year, 4) the cost and 5) Berlin's previous lacklustre attempt at securing the Olympics. German society is increasingly becoming more polarized (a perception only confirmed by the heated debate about the appropriateness of bailing out other European Union member states). If Germany wishes to secure the Olympic Games and make them a happy occasion, then this is a debate our country most certainly does not need. If Berlin applies it will be difficult in the best of times. If they actually make the historic mistake of submitting a bid for 2036, I can guarantee you that the German public will quite simply ensure that the candidature file won't even be submitted. The bid would be dead-on-arrival. There are further reasons for Berlin not hosting - neither in 2036, nor at any other time in the future. The most fatal one would be its structural debt: It already has a deficit of €63 billion, with the gap projected to widen in the coming years. This is a lot of things, but not a healthy state of financial affairs. Even during the Cold War, given its status as a "front line city", it was dependent on federal handouts. That hasn't stopped, the city relies on both the federal government and European Union structural funds to keep itself afloat. Then, there is the politics of Berlin (which serves as both the federal capital of Germany and as a separate state, a bit like Canberra doubling as the ACT in Australia): The city is structurally left-wing, with disproportionately high levels of support for the Greens and the Left Party. These two are the natural coalition partners of the Social Democrats and are very sceptical towards any kind of project involving corporate involvement and major construction. For them, the Olympic Games are nothing but a prestige project for what they perceive as a conglomerate of elites in politics, business and media outlets. Even though these two left-wing parties are in opposition now, they typically control anywhere between 35 to 40% of all seats in Berlin's Legislative Assembly. That may not be enough to stop a formal application, but it would be enough to make quite a bit of noise. And since the IOC looks for political support in excess of 80-85%, Berlin would quite simply start with a major disadvantage. It also has a reputation for being the city with the highest rate of welfare recipients and the unemployed in the entire nation. Finally, Berlin's leaders don't exactly inspire a lot of confidence or civic pride - their most recent public undertaking, the opening of an international airport (due for completion in October 2011) has been delayed twice. It will now open in March 2013 (for now). Oh, and the costs were originally supposed to stay below €2.8 billion - now, they have almost gone up to €5 billion. Finally, there is its last bid (for the 2000 Games): The 2000 bid included such highlights as the Berlin Committee researching the sexual practices of IOC members, lukewarm federal government support, a muddled message and constant opposition by violent, far-left elements (which also fire-bombed shops and branches of corporate sponsors like Mercedes Benz). Just looking at the social and economic structure of the city, you can expect protests - one instance is a project sponsored by the Guggenheim Museum and BMW. It had to shift from a typically left-wing area, due to a realistic prospect of property damage. Hence, why Berlin (despite a great arts and cultural scene - I do give them that) is not even a second choice for hosting a Germany-based edition of the Summer Olympics. If the German NOC made the mistake of choosing Berlin as the German candidate (regardless of which year), I'm certain that I wouldn't be the only German opposing the bid. Berliners don't want the Games - they have proven that in the 1990s. And that is a recipe for a mediocre Games at best... Hamburg is a much more credible candidate - a city that truly represents the new Germany and has a much stronger and more consistently performing economy. With its location at the heart of Germany's North, it can bring a fresh message and a new impetus that could continue the regeneration of the Olympic Movement. Sorry about the long contribution, but I feel rather passionate about seeing the Summer Olympics in Germany in my lifetime. And for that, I want the best candidate possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daze Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 To start with, I'm on record as being a passionate supporter of the Summer and Winter Games being held in German cities sometime soon. Nonetheless, I honestly don't think our sports officials or the federal government would be so inanely stupid and back a bid for securing the Games of the Olympiad exactly a century after the National Socialists used the Olympics as a propaganda stage for their hateful ideology of racial superiority. Even bidding for Berlin 2036 would bring back a political discussion about, 1) the necessity of the Olympic Games, 2) the appropriateness of Berlin 3) the appropriateness of the year, 4) the cost and 5) Berlin's previous lacklustre attempt at securing the Olympics. German society is increasingly becoming more polarized (a perception only confirmed by the heated debate about the appropriateness of bailing out other European Union member states). If Germany wishes to secure the Olympic Games and make them a happy occasion, then this is a debate our country most certainly does not need. If Berlin applies it will be difficult in the best of times. If they actually make the historic mistake of submitting a bid for 2036, I can guarantee you that the German public will quite simply ensure that the candidature file won't even be submitted. The bid would be dead-on-arrival. There are further reasons for Berlin not hosting - neither in 2036, nor at any other time in the future. The most fatal one would be its structural debt: It already has a deficit of €63 billion, with the gap projected to widen in the coming years. This is a lot of things, but not a healthy state of financial affairs. Even during the Cold War, given its status as a "front line city", it was dependent on federal handouts. That hasn't stopped, the city relies on both the federal government and European Union structural funds to keep itself afloat. Then, there is the politics of Berlin (which serves as both the federal capital of Germany and as a separate state, a bit like Canberra doubling as the ACT in Australia): The city is structurally left-wing, with disproportionately high levels of support for the Greens and the Left Party. These two are the natural coalition partners of the Social Democrats and are very sceptical towards any kind of project involving corporate involvement and major construction. For them, the Olympic Games are nothing but a prestige project for what they perceive as a conglomerate of elites in politics, business and media outlets. Even though these two left-wing parties are in opposition now, they typically control anywhere between 35 to 40% of all seats in Berlin's Legislative Assembly. That may not be enough to stop a formal application, but it would be enough to make quite a bit of noise. And since the IOC looks for political support in excess of 80-85%, Berlin would quite simply start with a major disadvantage. It also has a reputation for being the city with the highest rate of welfare recipients and the unemployedin the entire nation. Finally, Berlin's leaders don't exactly inspire a lot of confidence or civic pride - their most recent public undertaking, the opening of an international airport (due for completion in October 2011) has been delayed twice. It will now open in March 2013 (for now). Oh, and the costs were originally supposed to stay below €2.8 billion - now, they have almost gone up to €5 billion. Finally, there is its last bid (for the 2000 Games): The 2000 bid included such highlights as the Berlin Committee researching the sexual practices of IOC members, lukewarm federal government support, a muddled message and constant opposition by violent, far-left elements (which also fire-bombed shops and branches of corporate sponsors like Mercedes Benz). Just looking at the social and economic structure of the city, you can expect protests - one instance is a project sponsored by the Guggenheim Museum and BMW. It had to shift from a typically left-wing area, due to a realistic prospect of property damage. Hence, why Berlin (despite a great arts and cultural scene - I do give them that) is not even a second choice for hosting a Germany-based edition of the Summer Olympics. If the German NOC made the mistake of choosing Berlin as the German candidate (regardless of which year), I'm certain that I wouldn't be the only German opposing the bid. Berliners don't want the Games - they have proven that in the 1990s. And that is a recipe for a mediocre Games at best... Hamburgis a much more credible candidate - a city that truly represents the new Germany and has a much stronger and more consistently performing economy. With its location at the heart of Germany's North, it can bring a fresh message and a new impetus that could continue the regeneration of the Olympic Movement. Sorry about the long contribution, but I feel rather passionate about seeing the Summer Olympics in Germany in my lifetime. And for that, I want the best candidate possible. Totally agree with you in every single point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hamburgis a much more credible candidate - a city that truly represents the new Germany and has a much stronger and more consistently performing economy. With its location at the heart of Germany's North, it can bring a fresh message and a new impetus that could continue the regeneration of the Olympic Movement. Sorry about the long contribution, but I feel rather passionate about seeing the Summer Olympics in Germany in my lifetime. And for that, I want the best candidate possible. Hamburg would be great with an excellent sports culture, but none of their main stadiums are suitable for athletics and both the Imtech Arena and Millerntor Stadium have recently been updated - would FC St Pauli finally get their stadium with maybe something built on the Hamburger Dom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 2036 is really NOT a good year for Berlin. It still honors the sociopathic Nazi regime somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daze Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hamburg would be great with an excellent sports culture, but none of their main stadiums are suitable for athletics and both the Imtech Arena and Millerntor Stadium have recently been updated - would FC St Pauli finally get their stadium with maybe something built on the Hamburger Dom? That was the plan for the 2012 bid. http://www.google.de/imgres?hl=de&client=firefox-a&hs=LRk&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=9nY3dx7MQ7KdfM:&imgrefurl=http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article2345801/Was-waere-wenn-Hamburg-Olympia-ausgerichtet-haette.html&imgurl=http://www.abendblatt.de/multimedia/archive/01220/hamburg_HA_Bilder__1220343c.jpg&w=459&h=306&ei=Z7k7UNu9Oc7CtAbr9YHQDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=181&vpy=161&dur=5053&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=144&ty=102&sig=117816699414690660416&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=196&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:70 A new stadium directly at the river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plusbrilliantsexploits Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hamburg would be great with an excellent sports culture, but none of their main stadiums are suitable for athletics and both the Imtech Arena and Millerntor Stadium have recently been updated - would FC St Pauli finally get their stadium with maybe something built on the Hamburger Dom? I'm fairly sure that a new Olympic Stadium will have to be built, thus taking care of the athletics bit. From what I have read, the plan would call for the Olympic Park to be built near the new HafenCity district, on what appears to be a peninsula within the city. I genuinely love the idea - and it reinforces the concept of an Olympic Games embedded into the the nature, atmosphere and architecture of a truly metropolitan city. What would bolster Hamburg's prospects, especially post-London, would be the legacy of the entire Olympic Park being assured by prior talks with all stakeholders (in my view, that would include the Hamburger SV and FC St Pauli). However, given the city's vibrant sports culture, this would be less of a problem than, say, in Berlin - where there is only one viable football club. The new Olympic Stadium would also permanently put Hamburg on the map for the IAAF World Championships and similar events. This is the proposed Olympic Stadium - doesn't it look amazing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Sorry about the long contribution, but I feel rather passionate about seeing the Summer Olympics in Germany in my lifetime. And for that, I want the best candidate possible. I agree with you about a Berlin bid for 2036 = no way!!! I support a German bid for Summer Olympics as well as for Winter Olympics and I would prefer Summer Olympics, too - furthermore I agree with you that we should do it with the best candidate. Of course I support a bid of Hamburg - its my hometown - and I know it would become fantastic Games - the idea to change the whole city into a venue is fantastic - and the Olympic Park on the south river bank of the Elbe would be fantastic - the area is still "blocked" for an Olympic bid by the Hamburg government. Munich has good chances to host Winter Olympics in 2022 - the DOSB has to decide which Olympics it wants and where Germany has the better chances to host as soon as possible - furthermore the "Thomas Bach issue" will play a special role. Berlin would have good chances in an international competition too - you are right with the debts, but the debts are caused by the fact too, that it is our capital and has to built up a new infrastructure - at the same time it has to built a single city out of two parts - it would be good if an area of the former nowhere land of the wall would be blocked for an Olympic Park... Hamburg would be great with an excellent sports culture, but none of their main stadiums are suitable for athletics and both the Imtech Arena and Millerntor Stadium have recently been updated - would FC St Pauli finally get their stadium with maybe something built on the Hamburger Dom? I have still the "bid brochure" of Hamburg 2012 as PDF - here is a view from the south to the north - with the new Olympic Stadium, Olympic Arena and Olympic Aquatic Centre in the Olympic Park at the southern bank of the river Elbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I have still the "bid brochure" of Hamburg 2012 as PDF - here is a view from the south to the north - with the new Olympic Stadium, Olympic Arena and Olympic Aquatic Centre in the Olympic Park at the southern bank of the river Elbe This looks fantastic. Just update it a little and go with it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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