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South Africa 2024


olympikfan

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If Cape Town wants the Games, the huge underused football stadium will have a bearing on what they do for their main athletics stadium. It MAY lead to a struggle for them to find a workable stadium solution, it may not, but it will have a bearing.

Insofar as practicalities are concerned, it'll likely mean a demountable solution so as not to end up with two massive new stadiums. Insofar as politics is concerned, it could lead to difficulties with the bid gaining initial traction amongst the populace (I might be wrong there, but that's not inconceivable).

The Wembley Stadium debacle here in the UK was almost certainly the biggest reason for London 2012 opting for a light-weight demountable solution for the main athletics stadium. That debacle was surrounding construction and deadlines and Wembley is now a hugely successful stadium - but nevertheless that experience scarred the perception of UK construction and would have informed decisions with regard to the Olympic construction programme.

In Cape Town's case the legacy of their 2010 stadium is the thing which raises the questions, not its construction. But it could, like in London's case, lead to a different outcome for an Olympic Stadium solution than would've been reached normally - one which might not have been reached had the 2010 World Cup never passed through. And it could - I'm not saying it will, but it could - lead to problems for the bid if the politicans and citizens don't want to build another new stadium with a gleaming 68k stadium already under-utilised.

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I don't even know why there's a controversy as to which SA city will get it. I mean just before the IOC Session in July 2011, RSA's two largest tourist and travel agents' associations endorsed Durban as the most suitable prospective Olympic host because of its agreeable, balmy weather in the July-August period vs. a chilly, wet CapeTown of the same period. Don't you think those travel professionals know what they are talking about or know what Olympic insiders and travellers want, only having handled bookings for previous Olympic Games??

The RSA gov't shied away from spending $50 million for the 2020 campaign yet, will be cavalier enough to spend another $500 million for yet ANOTHER behemoth Olympic stadium for CapeTown when the $450 million Greenpoint football stadium just went up in 2010...and there is a T&F ready 80,000 seater, just as new, in Durban? :blink:

Yeah, right. The only thing Capetown has going for it is pretty scenery.

I mean does it take rocket science to figure this out?? :blink:

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I don't even know why there's a controversy as to which SA city will get it.

Yeah, right. The only thing Capetown has going for it is pretty scenery.

I mean does it take rocket science to figure this out?? :blink:

Apparently, it seems that for quite a few out there, it does take rocket science. They naively think that it's all about the picture-perfect post-card city. While that element certainly does help, its not everything though. I would hardly call Beijing some beauty pagent queen. N besides, Durban does in fact appears very Rio-ish. With its sunny weather, palm trees N even African culture. The only thing missing is Christ the Redeemer atop Corcovado mountain.

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I don't even know why there's a controversy as to which SA city will get it.

I don't presume to know the ins and outs of every RSA city... but back in the bidding for 2004, somebody thought Cape Town was the best candidate. They had reasons. It might still be the best candidate, it might not be. But it certainly has to be in the conversation. You can't just say it's Durban by default.

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That bid was over 15 years ago. Back then, Cape Town probably was the best option. But today, any new cape town bid would require to work virtually from scratch again.

It's been highlighted, not just by Baron, that Durban right now has many of the main attributes already in place to start a bid; the main stadium & the sports precinct that can house many of the other sport venues.

Some might say that Cape Town should be part of the conversion, but Durban should be the main focal point, & not be so easily dismissed (like some like to do) simply bcuz it's the most viable South African candidate at this point.

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I don't even know why there's a controversy as to which SA city will get it. I mean just before the IOC Session in July 2011, RSA's two largest tourist and travel agents' associations endorsed Durban as the most suitable prospective Olympic host because of its agreeable, balmy weather in the July-August period vs. a chilly, wet CapeTown of the same period. Don't you think those travel professionals know what they are talking about or know what Olympic insiders and travellers want, only having handled bookings for previous Olympic Games??

The RSA gov't shied away from spending $50 million for the 2020 campaign yet, will be cavalier enough to spend another $500 million for yet ANOTHER behemoth Olympic stadium for CapeTown when the $450 million Greenpoint football stadium just went up in 2010...and there is a T&F ready 80,000 seater, just as new, in Durban? :blink:

Yeah, right. The only thing Capetown has going for it is pretty scenery.

I mean does it take rocket science to figure this out?? :blink:

Baron, I agree with you - the problem is that if Durban goes up against Paris 2024, I honestly don't believe it will be more than the proverbial preparatory bid for the real thing - 2028. I can see why some would want Cape Town - the beautiful scenery does matter in the overall Olympic package, right?

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the problem is that if Durban goes up against Paris 2024,

Paris has NOT even signified its 2024 intentions. It's just people on fora such as these who are promoting Paris' bid. The French are understandably bid-shy. So even a Paris 2024 might not happen. A "centennial idea" vs. the last-continent-satisfied" leaves the former in a weaker position. I mean, if Paris has bid and lost 4 other times, what's a 5th time from a wealthy country? Whereas a 2nd one from a weaker economy but the promise of the first for a whole, NEW continent crosses off more people's "guilt" list than not. As the saying goes: "We'll always have Paris...but we won't get away with ignoring a viable bid from the most ignored continent."

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Paris has NOT even signified its 2024 intentions. It's just people on fora such as these who are promoting Paris' bid. The French are understandably bid-shy. So even a Paris 2024 might not happen. A "centennial idea" vs. the last-continent-satisfied" leaves the former in a weaker position. I mean, if Paris has bid and lost 4 other times, what's a 5th time from a wealthy country? Whereas a 2nd one from a weaker economy but the promise of the first for a whole, NEW continent crosses off more people's "guilt" list than not. As the saying goes: "We'll always have Paris...but we won't get away with ignoring a viable bid from the most ignored continent."

First off, I don't wish to argue - you have legitimate points which I respect. Actually, President Hollande has made noises that very much sound like the starting gun for a Paris bid. Of course, it's way too early to tell whether Parisians will have the stomach to consider a bid campaign from 2015 onwards. Only time and the economic crisis will tell. However, the centennial idea and the French consistency in mounting credible bids speak for Paris. It also has the advantage of having mounted a credible bid already. South Africa still has to decide whether to nominate Cape Town (again) or Durban. Then, they need to go for a proper venue plan - something that Paris has in place since its 2012 bid.

The "last continent" theme will not be sufficient to convince the IOC. They are already entertaining a big gamble with Rio, given its issues with policing, security and poverty in the favelas. As things stand, Istanbul 2020 may break the "New Frontier" first, given that Madrid's bid will fail due to the fiscal crisis (with Spain having bigger things to worry about than staging the second Summer Olympics in 32 years) and that Tokyo has a "been there, done that" feel to it (despite technical perfection - also, Fukushima, earthquake and tsunami will certainly help to influence the IOC's decision). If Istanbul does manage to grab 2020, the IOC would probably get weary of yet another "New Frontier" - especially since a big chunk of IOC members are from Europe.

Cynically speaking, the IOC would have less problems with an Olympics in Paris. The thing that did lose Paris the 2012 Games was the arrogance and social ineptness of the bid leaders who thought that it was their birthright to host the Games. Compare that to Athens 1996, and you see a template for Paris' redemption. Once the Parisians learn to appear humble, yet confident and they present a technically superior bid (to, say, Durban or Cape Town), it will be difficult to beat them.

But anyway, I guess we should just respectfully agree to disagree. I concede that I may be proven completely wrong - that's the beauty of the IOC bidding process, isn't it?

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But RSA is NOT a "new frontier." It handled a successful World Cup tournament--only the other thing as big as an Olympics. How many developing countries have hosted a successful World Cup since Mexico 1986? None; except South Africa. The IOC has seen RSA and Durban with its own eyes in 2011. France will have Euro 2016. (The Euro is probably the 3rd or 4th largest sporting event in the world...depending on how one ranks the SOGs, the WOGs and the World Cup. So what if Hollande said so? Many leaders say so at the early stages of their career. It is now up to the Paris gov't, the French Sports Department (if there is such a thing) and/or the French NOC whether they want to proceed with a 2024 Paris bid. If Durban bids, I think it would again be stupid and suicidal for Paris to bid.

You are a young, dewy-eyed person. I have seen this scenario happen so many times in the past. A Durban bid will trump a Paris bid.

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But RSA is NOT a "new frontier." It handled a successful World Cup tournament--only the other thing as big as an Olympics. How many developing countries have hosted a successful since Mexico 1986? None; except South Africa. The IOC has seen RSA and Durban with its own eyes in 2011. France will have Euro 2016. (The Euro is probably the 3rd or 4th largest sporting event in the world...depending on how one ranks the SOGs, the WOGs and the World Cup. So what if Hollande said so? Many leaders say so at the early stages of their career. It is now up to the Paris gov't, the French Sports Department (if there is such a thing) and/or the French NOC whether they want to proceed with a 2024 Paris bid. If Durban bids, I think it would again be stupid and suicidal for Paris to bid.

You are a young, dewy-eyed person. I have seen this scenario happen so many times in the past. A Durban bid will trump a Paris bid.

Well, each to their own! Thanks for sharing your insights on this topic - I guess we'll see what happens...

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The IOC has indeed taken a "gamble" with Rio 2016, but that won't really have any bearing on a South African 2024 bid, bcuz the awarding of those Games will occur in 2017, one year AFTER the conclusion of the Rio Olympics.

The only way that would have any impact, is if Rio is a complete mess in hosting the Games. But even with at least a decent showing, that will look very favorably on any South African bid. The "last frontier", as I see it as, really is going to sway in on many members. It would be completely simplistic if anyone thinks that it won't.

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I totally agree that Durban is the best choice for SA and I don't understand the debate either. I also think Durban is capable of beating the likes of Paris and NYC. It's not a given, but I think it's very possible. They just have to deliver a competent bid.

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Well, each to their own! Thanks for sharing your insights on this topic - I guess we'll see what happens...

Personally I agree regarding Paris as being capable of hosting an excellent bid, whilst South Africa being more of a new frontier especially for the Olympics. Lets not forget FIFA were hosting the World Cup in 1930 in South America but the IOC waited until 2016. Whilst I don't think the gap will be so long for Africa, I don't see the need for a stampede there. Durban has some excellent facilities but still lacks in the number of indoor arenas required. Durban was where the 2018 winners were announced so clearly all of the IOC members will be aware of the city.

I think Durban will eventually be the bid city for South Africa but I don't think it will be able to overcome Paris in 2024 if the French bid, even though the French have some issues themselves including finding a new location for the Olympic Village.

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Personally I agree regarding Paris as being capable of hosting an excellent bid, whilst South Africa being more of a new frontier especially for the Olympics. Lets not forget FIFA were hosting the World Cup in 1930 in South America but the IOC waited until 2016. Whilst I don't think the gap will be so long for Africa, I don't see the need for a stampede there. Durban has some excellent facilities but still lacks in the number of indoor arenas required. Durban was where the 2018 winners were announced so clearly all of the IOC members will be aware of the city.

I think Durban will eventually be the bid city for South Africa but I don't think it will be able to overcome Paris in 2024 if the French bid, even though the French have some issues themselves including finding a new location for the Olympic Village.

Hmmmmm. <_<

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‘Bring Olympic and Paralympic Games to SA’

London - Oscar Pistorius has called for South Africa to bid to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Pistorius, who will start his third Paralympics this weekend, said in an interview with the Virgin Active Sports Industry Awards yesterday that he believed that South Africa had the ability to hold the world’s two biggest sporting events.

“We’ve had the Rugby World Cup in 1995, the Cricket World Cup in 2003 and the football in 2010, and we’ve shown that we can host phenomenal international competitions,” he said.

“The Olympics is definitely the missing one in that impressive collection, so I think if we could host it that would be great. I know that they’ve been talking about it in Durban and it would be the right city for that. I guess I’m a little bit bitter that it won’t be in my career as an athlete! But I’ll definitely support that as much as I can.”

It has been suggested that South Africa should bid for the 2024 Games on the back of the success of the 2010 World Cup among other the many other events. The government has said it would not pursue the Olympics, but it is understood that there may be a change of heart in some officials, with Sports Minister Fikile Mbalula apparently in favour of it.

“We’re very good with sport, but the sports that we’ve got are mostly team sports. I think sometimes the facilities we have are not up to world standard and that’s often where we need to be realistic with the individual sports,” said Pistorius.

“In a country like France, just in Paris they’ve got 22 Mondo tracks, which is the international surface we run on; I think we’ve got one in South Africa.

“So there are a lot of facilities that we really need across the spectrum.”

Pistorius will be going for four medals at the Olympics, and while he is favourite to win the 200m and 400m, his chances in the 100m and 4x100m relay are a not as sure. The SA team are expected to bring home about 30 medals, with predictions of 40 being made.

“We’ve got a phenomenal Paralympic team, and to be part of this team for the third time is a blessing,” he said.

“In London I think it’s going to be quite a special Paralympic Games - one like we’ve never seen before. The reach that this Paralympic Games is going to have is going to be far more impactful than in previous years and to be part of Team South Africa and to be able to represent my country in the four events that we’ve managed to qualify for is going to be quite a big feat. I’m looking forward to it. I think it should be a phenomenal experience.”

Meanwhile, when he finishes at these Paralympics, Pistorius will take off his carbon fibre blades, prop up the feet of his regular prosthetics and take a well-earned break.

“Maybe we’ll send him to Namibia for a little bit, or somewhere he can do something else apart from train, and enjoy himself,” said Ampie Louw, who was the man who convinced, or rather conned, Pistorius into becoming a Paralympic athlete.

Just over eight years ago Pistorius went to Louw with the aim of rehabilitating himself from a knee injury so that he could play rugby again. Louw saw a young 17-year-old with talent and speed to burn, and put in place a plan to make the Pistorius the most famous disabled athlete in the world.

“It’s been an amazing eight years. These are my third Games. I’ve got a lot to thank my coach for,” said Pistorius on Tuesday.

Independent Online

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Ideally, I'd like to see Durban or Cape Town go for either 2024 or 2028.

I have a feeling that if South Africa goes with Durban for 2024, they might end up doing what Australia did with 1992/1996/2000 bids - swap cities. As much as Durban seems capable, I don't know if the Africa card will be enough to get it over the line against potential 2024 bids from Paris and a big American city. Will the IOC see Cape Town waiting in the wings like they saw Sydney during Melbourne's 1996 bid? I think so, and I think its quite possible that if Durban fails at 2024, to NY or Paris, if Cape Town steps forward for 2028, it will have it in the bag. I can't think of any potential bid from anywhere in the world in 2028 that could take it from Cape Town. I think 2028 in Africa, in terms of "patterns" of hosting, will mark a convincing end to the 8's in Asia theory.

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I think though that when it comes to the IOC considering South Africa, capability comes into it more than glamour – and through its good planning, Durban is the most readily equipped. Cape Town missed its chance when it opted for a football only World Cup stadium, rather than one capable of athletics, like Durban's Moses Madhiba. And when you're considering South Africa and Africa in general social responsibility and cost are bound to be scrutinised more closely than other bidders.

I will state, though, that on a personal note, I may be biased because I actually do prefer Durban. It just seems more “African”. As one other poster said somewhere here, Cape Town would be the most “white-bread” city they could possibly pick to go to in Africa.

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I hadn't thought of the race aspect, really. Shows that I am somewhat ignorant to South Africa. Durban itself would be great, and in fact maybe that lack of iconic Sydney style glamour that Cape Town would give, could see Durban be a refreshing return of the "second" city getting its turn, which have played a big role in the history of the Olympic Games, from Antwerp right up to Melbourne, Munich, Montreal, Barcelona and Atlanta - cities which, for better or worse, have had their civic identities hugely defined by their Olympic experience.

Durban, paired with a possible Chicago Olympics, could bring about the decade of "the second cities"

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I wonder if people are disregarding Johannesburg too quicky.

They've got a complex including

  • Ellis Park, the Rugby Stadium holding 62,000 people
  • Johannesburg Stadium, a 37,500 seat Athletics Stadium where if they built the second tier around would hold double this
  • The Standard Bank Arena holding 5,000 seats
  • An Olympic sized swimming pool

You've also got the Coca Cola Dome and a multitude of football and rugby pitches.

It is more practical option than Cape Town.

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I wonder if people are disregarding Johannesburg too quicky.

They've got a complex including

  • Ellis Park, the Rugby Stadium holding 62,000 people
  • Johannesburg Stadium, a 37,500 seat Athletics Stadium where if they built the second tier around would hold double this
  • The Standard Bank Arena holding 5,000 seats
  • An Olympic sized swimming pool

You've also got the Coca Cola Dome and a multitude of football and rugby pitches.

It is more practical option than Cape Town.

One Word: Altitude

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I think it may be abit dodge for security too, despite the Olympic security umbrella. Not sure if it's the kind of city I'd want the youth of the world walking around at night.

From what I've heard Johannesburg has improved immensely over the last 10 years in terms of liveability and drop in crime rate, I remember hearing of people at the World Cup saying it was a surprisingly vibrant and safe city, in parts.... caution is still advised. Like many big cities there are no-go areas.

But as intoronto pointed out, altitude. It's Africa's Mexico City.

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