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Just like foreign visitors that come to the U.S. aren't primarily coming here for beaches & cruise docks, either. But domestically, many American's do like to leisure travel to beaches like to Florida & California. Which makes sense in that aspect. But that's not really the issue here.

Las Vegas, Southern California and Florida are the most popular destinations for foreign travelers in the USA. Gambling, amusement parks and beaches are the top attractors. Melbourne has all three of those things, but its geographical isolation makes it a tough sell. London to Barcelona is 713 miles, London to Miami is 4,425 miles, and London to Melbourne is 10,503 miles. Meanwhile Australia is almost literally the other side of the world from North America.

Australia's current position is probably where it is destined to be: a place everyone in Europe and North America want to go to once in their lives, but too expensive to travel to in order to be a common destination for family vacationers.

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Melbourne supporters need to answer the fundamental question.... Why should the Olympics go the Melbourne? And the answer has to be something better than, We have the facilities.

Well, these days putting your hand up and having the facilities can get you pretty far. The pickings are slim.

Melbourne would be a great cultural contrast to recent and future hosts and they would stage warm friendly games in an open democracy.

However, I can't really see Australia factoring in anytime soon. I strongly suspect the next three Summer Games will be hosted by the US, Europe and Africa, though perhaps not in that order. I suspect Australia will have to wait until 2036 at the earliest.

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Las Vegas, Southern California and Florida are the most popular destinations for foreign travelers in the USA. Gambling, amusement parks and beaches are the top attractors. Melbourne has all three of those things, but its geographical isolation makes it a tough sell. London to Barcelona is 713 miles, London to Miami is 4,425 miles, and London to Melbourne is 10,503 miles. Meanwhile Australia is almost literally the other side of the world from North America.

Australia's current position is probably where it is destined to be: a place everyone in Europe and North America want to go to once in their lives, but too expensive to travel to in order to be a common destination for family vacationers.

Yet the top two tourist destinations in Europe are Paris and London. And as FYI mentioned before, they're hot getting those numbers because of their beaches or cruise terminals. Nor is it Paris Disneyland accounting for the bulk of its numbers. And as has been mentioned before, Barcelona' beaches were only developed for use because of their games, and to give the athlete's village a private beach for the visitors. I doubt the bulk of the people that go there are going to Barcelona for the beaches anyway - more the Gaudi legacy, the Gothic quarter, the sophisticated street and night life. You head outside to Sitges if you wanna decent beach in Barcelona, and further south in the country or to the islands if you want a true Spanish beach holiday.

Melbourne's not a destination we'd go to for theme parks. I don't even know of any there (though I'm sure there's likely something). The Gold Coast is our amusement park destination.

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And thread drift is quite typical here on gamesbids. But it wasn't that much off-topic considering the context of the original thread.

They usually drift because the diversion is often more interesting than the supposed topic at hand. I think many of the more interesting debates and discussions here happen in the off-topic drifts.

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Yet the top two tourist destinations in Europe are Paris and London.

Yes they are. And New York and Tokyo are also top destinations. But that's because they are the most influential cities in the world, with museums and architecture built up over hundreds of years. St. Louis has hosted an Olympics and has some nice museums, yet few people go there.

Anyway, Melbourne has plenty of tourist attractions. That's not its problem.

I have said it before,and I will say it again.

Melbourne's biggest challenge is the weather.

When could Melbourne expect to host an Olympics?

August/Sept?.. Way too cold

Any time outside this period will not be acceptable to the IOC and international federations.

I'm not sure how much sway the broadcasters really have. FIFA doesn't seem to mind screwing with them over a winter World Cup. The IOC is smarter than FIFA, but it also seems a bit less greedy.

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St. Louis has hosted an Olympics and has some nice museums, yet few people go there.

St. Louis hosted the Olympics 110 years ago, though. When the Games didn't have nearly the global stature that they have today, nor even in 1992 when Barcelona hosted. So hardly an equivalent comparison. But like you said that Madrid still doesn't compare to London's & Paris' theater, ballet & museum recognition, then St. Louis PALES in comparison to any of them.

You claim that you're not trying to convince us, but it seems that's exactly what you're trying to do here. I don't think that any of us are denying that many people would visit Barcelona for their beaches & dock on their ports. But that was a result of the bigger scheme of the Games & what that meant for the city, rather than people just merely flocking there cuz they've heard that they have some damn "nice beaches & cruise ports" there.

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I'm not sure how much sway the broadcasters really have. FIFA doesn't seem to mind screwing with them over a winter World Cup. The IOC is smarter than FIFA, but it also seems a bit less greedy.

It's not just NBC, though they have huge sway. But also the international sports federations and the general sporting event calendar. It's hard to see a SOGs these days outside that July-Aug window.

Melbourne would be a perfect time for a July-August games - the WOGs!

Yes they are. And New York and Tokyo are also top destinations. But that's because they are the most influential cities in the world, with museums and architecture built up over hundreds of years. St. Louis has hosted an Olympics and has some nice museums, yet few people go there.

So what are you trying to say? That the games brought no or little benefit for Barcelona's image or tourist profile? Barcelona's image is also one that I'd classify as more cultural than resort-like. But it took the games for it to market that successfully to the world.

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Melbourne supporters need to answer the fundamental question.... Why should the Olympics go the Melbourne? And the answer has to be something better than, We have the facilities.

Let's put it this way, what would Melbourne offer to the IOC? The answer is, a proven, reliable host with a passionate audience in a stable democracy. It might be an attractive proposition against weak opposition also to raise the fading interest among the traditional western powers. Australia of course benefits of geography for representing alone such a big part of world, not only due to Oceania but also because there are no credible options in SE Asia at the moment. Even East Asia might be out of question for some time if 2022 goes to China. Realistically though, an Australian games before 2040's would most likely require quite exceptional circumstances.

Weather-wise, didn't Melbourne propose similar dates than Sydney for 1996? I know it's colder than Sydney, but then again with a bit of luck it shouldn't be colder than London was.

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Let's put it this way, what would Melbourne offer to the IOC? The answer is, a proven, reliable host with a passionate audience in a stable democracy. It might be an attractive proposition against weak opposition also to raise the fading interest among the traditional western powers. Australia of course benefits of geography for representing alone such a big part of world, not only due to Oceania but also because there are no credible options in SE Asia at the moment. Even East Asia might be out of question for some time if 2022 goes to China. Realistically though, an Australian games before 2040's would most likely require quite exceptional circumstances.

Weather-wise, didn't Melbourne propose similar dates than Sydney for 1996? I know it's colder than Sydney, but then again with a bit of luck it shouldn't be colder than London was.

It would start about a week later than Sydney 2000. A bit cooler - but warm days and cool nights. Come October (end of the Games and by the time of the Paralympics) and it would be very nice weather. Even if we could stage it in Australia's actual summer, it wouldn't be ideal. Melbourne's mid summer (Jan-Feb) is prone a few days of 40c+ temps. September-October (Oly/Para) would be fine. The IOC would just need to be aware that its not going to have the high temps of Atlanta or Athens.

But this is Brisbane's only card above Melbourne - they could stage from late August for warmer weather. That said - Melbourne has basically everything else on the table above Brisbane, and many other potential rivals around the world. Still, as others have pointed out, we only had the privilege of staging the Games in this country 14 years ago. While 2028 is quite a time after Sydney, its not in Olympic years. I think Australians are less deluded about our place in the Olympic world than Spain is. Simply - we don't "deserve" it - no country or city does. BUT if the IOC continues to come to clashes with cities over their expectations as they have with 2020 and 2022, I think they could find a real friend in a city like Melbourne and the AOC. With a tight bid, I think it would be shortsighted to dismiss Melbourne's chances. It could happen.

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You claim that you're not trying to convince us, but it seems that's exactly what you're trying to do here. I don't think that any of us are denying that many people would visit Barcelona for their beaches & dock on their ports. But that was a result of the bigger scheme of the Games & what that meant for the city, rather than people just merely flocking there cuz they've heard that they have some damn "nice beaches & cruise ports" there.

I actually said that I wasn't going to be able to convince you about Barcelona, and that the discussion of this thread should be about Melbourne. Discussing the potential benefits of hosting for Melbourne is pertinent. Arguing in circles over Barcelona isn't.

The cruise thing is important because people on cruises are exposed to cities they are not familiar with. In Melbourne's case, the fact that it is a cruise ship port is great for people who don't know about Australia's cities and book an Australian cruise. Then they discover that they really liked Melbourne (or Sydney, or Cairns, or whatever) and then go back there on a later holiday.

I live in Seattle, and I know that a lot of Seattle's summer tourists are people who took an Alaskan cruise departing from Seattle and liked the city enough that they wanted to come back later to see the city. Being a cruise ship destination really is a big boost in introducing a city to potential tourists.

So what are you trying to say? That the games brought no or little benefit for Barcelona's image or tourist profile? Barcelona's image is also one that I'd classify as more cultural than resort-like. But it took the games for it to market that successfully to the world.

No. The Olympics clearly do bring attention to the host city.

The state of Utah does a great job of making putting their data online, and they did a study before and after the Olympics to see what would happen with their brand awareness in Europe as a result of hosting. It's available online.

http://digitallibrary.utah.gov/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=12142

The summary is that there was a significant boost in awareness for Utah and Salt Lake City in most of the countries of Europe as a result of hosting. Additionally, the city did a good job of making itself into a location for trade shows.

But the Olympics are not good value for money if a city's primary goal is to improve tourism. The movie Crocodile Dundee doubled international tourism to Australia within three years. The Sydney Olympics didn't boost tourism for Sydney much at all.

The advantages for Australia hosting again go far beyond tourism, though, which is why I think a Melbourne bid makes a lot of sense. Melbourne has most of the sporting infrastructure they would need to host in place, additional mass transit is needed anyway and a new high density housing development would be welcome too.

The reason I think Melbourne makes sense as an Olympic host is that the money it would spend on the games would primarily go towards things it needs rather than venues that won't be used much after the games. Cities that think they will receive a massive boost in tourism to offset huge expenditures on white elephant venues are almost always disappointed.

Still, as others have pointed out, we only had the privilege of staging the Games in this country 14 years ago. While 2028 is quite a time after Sydney, its not in Olympic years. I think Australians are less deluded about our place in the Olympic world than Spain is. Simply - we don't "deserve" it - no country or city does. BUT if the IOC continues to come to clashes with cities over their expectations as they have with 2020 and 2022, I think they could find a real friend in a city like Melbourne and the AOC. With a tight bid, I think it would be shortsighted to dismiss Melbourne's chances. It could happen.

It would come down to the competition and whether the IOC will accept a spring or fall games, and Melbourne won't know that until they bid.

It really is a shame the IOC won't offer more feedback early in the bidding process. From their perspective they want cities like Madrid and Istanbul in the race merely for the sake of competition. But for the sake of cities like Melbourne if they would just come out and say what they are thinking about things like a potential spring games.

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I agree. As an Australian taxpayer (and come September as a Melbourne taxpayer ) I'd want to know whither a highly expensive bid is even worth our time. Melbourne has many other issues it could be focusing on, which is why (even as an Olympic enthusiast) I greet this news with skepticism. Victoria has a state election in November, wouldn't surprise me if this is part of a plan to drum up the civic pride vote. If Premier Napthine were serious-- why not just go for 2024? But that would require action sooner... 2028 is far off enough to remain non-committed.

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I agree. As an Australian taxpayer (and come September as a Melbourne taxpayer ) I'd want to know whither a highly expensive bid is even worth our time. Melbourne has many other issues it could be focusing on, which is why (even as an Olympic enthusiast) I greet this news with skepticism. Victoria has a state election in November, wouldn't surprise me if this is part of a plan to drum up the civic pride vote. If Premier Napthine were serious-- why not just go for 2024? But that would require action sooner... 2028 is far off enough to remain non-committed.

I'm not sure of the Victorian government and their current budget and financial situation. However, as a Queensland taxpayer, I can certainly agree and say that the same would go for a Brisbane olympic bid. (New-ish) Liberal government, sacked 15000 public servants, selling off assets, cutting funding from seemingly everything. I'm sure an olympic bid would be quite unpopular.

I'd just wait for a couple bidding cycles. I can't see the repeat bidding like we saw in 1992/1996/2000. If Melbourne bid for 2028 and lose I think the AOC would skip 2032 and maybe skip 2036 and go for 2040 with Sydney or perhaps Brisbane?

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I'm not sure of the Victorian government and their current budget and financial situation. However, as a Queensland taxpayer, I can certainly agree and say that the same would go for a Brisbane olympic bid. (New-ish) Liberal government, sacked 15000 public servants, selling off assets, cutting funding from seemingly everything. I'm sure an olympic bid would be quite unpopular.

I'd just wait for a couple bidding cycles. I can't see the repeat bidding like we saw in 1992/1996/2000. If Melbourne bid for 2028 and lose I think the AOC would skip 2032 and maybe skip 2036 and go for 2040 with Sydney or perhaps Brisbane?

The Colin Barnett Liberal government in WA is having an massive speeds on infrastructure, transport, health and schools right now and he will be likely be the Premier of WA for the next 11 years, He is laying down the groundwork for Perth to become an big global city right now, Come 2030s Perth will be in an good shape to host the Olympics and Paralympics Games Perth is growing up now, Also the city of Perth is having the biggest hotel boom in Australia since the lead up to the Sydney Olympics in Sydney and no major events are coming to the city in the next few years. That is very telling WA is losing it wait awhile title now to now being the Way Ahead state we are way ahead with our relationship to Asian countries we deal more with Asia then the rest of the country.

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The Colin Barnett Liberal government in WA is having an massive speeds on infrastructure, transport, health and schools right now and he will be likely be the Premier of WA for the next 11 years, He is laying down the groundwork for Perth to become an big global city right now, Come 2030s Perth will be in an good shape to host the Olympics and Paralympics Games Perth is growing up now, Also the city of Perth is having the biggest hotel boom in Australia since the lead up to the Sydney Olympics in Sydney and no major events are coming to the city in the next few years. That is very telling WA is losing it wait awhile title now to now being the Way Ahead state we are way ahead with our relationship to Asian countries we deal more with Asia then the rest of the country.

Perth is not going to Host the Summer Olympics and Paralympics. IF Australia Host, it will be with Sydney or Melbourne.

GCL, Please stop with these ridiculous and unrealistic claims.

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Perth is not going to Host the Summer Olympics and Paralympics. IF Australia Host, it will be with Sydney or Melbourne.

GCL, Please stop with these ridiculous and unrealistic claims.

O the irony when you say Perth is too small to host the Olympics Games and yet support Dubai when they too has 2 million people keep up with you're job on the comedy channel I will need some laughs in the world which is in darkness.

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The Colin Barnett Liberal government in WA is having an massive speeds on infrastructure, transport, health and schools right now and he will be likely be the Premier of WA for the next 11 years, He is laying down the groundwork for Perth to become an big global city right now, Come 2030s Perth will be in an good shape to host the Olympics and Paralympics Games Perth is growing up now, Also the city of Perth is having the biggest hotel boom in Australia since the lead up to the Sydney Olympics in Sydney and no major events are coming to the city in the next few years. That is very telling WA is losing it wait awhile title now to now being the Way Ahead state we are way ahead with our relationship to Asian countries we deal more with Asia then the rest of the country.

GCL, This is realisim being talked about here...Melbourne is pretty much set and ready to go, minus the serious political and public will, at least until 2028 and I'm sorry to say, Perth is only good for prehaps the YOSGs, CWGs or IAAF WCs or any other major singular sports events or part there of (FIFA or IRB WCs).

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GCL, This is realisim being talked about here...Melbourne is pretty much set and ready to go, minus the serious political and public will, at least until 2028 and I'm sorry to say, Perth is only good for prehaps the YOSGs, CWGs or IAAF WCs or any other major singular sports events or part there of (FIFA or IRB WCs).

The IOC don't want an ready set city to host the games they want legacy and an Brisbane or Perth will give an massive legacy, Melbourne would be great as an back up host city, My mate she has an arena at the Melbourne Olympic Park named after her and she says that sports must be develop and markets in other areas of the the world/country to grow the sports.

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Also the city of Perth is having the biggest hotel boom in Australia since the lead up to the Sydney Olympics in Sydney and no major events are coming to the city in the next few years. That is very telling WA is losing it wait awhile title now to now being the Way Ahead state we are way ahead with our relationship to Asian countries we deal more with Asia then the rest of the country.

I do not understand a word of this.

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The cruise thing is important because people on cruises are exposed to cities they are not familiar with. In Melbourne's case, the fact that it is a cruise ship port is great for people who don't know about Australia's cities and book an Australian cruise. Then they discover that they really liked Melbourne (or Sydney, or Cairns, or whatever) and then go back there on a later holiday.

I live in Seattle, and I know that a lot of Seattle's summer tourists are people who took an Alaskan cruise departing from Seattle and liked the city enough that they wanted to come back later to see the city. Being a cruise ship destination really is a big boost in introducing a city to potential tourists.

But the Olympics are not good value for money if a city's primary goal is to improve tourism. The movie Crocodile Dundee doubled international tourism to Australia within three years. The Sydney Olympics didn't boost tourism for Sydney much at all.

The reason I think Melbourne makes sense as an Olympic host is that the money it would spend on the games would primarily go towards things it needs rather than venues that won't be used much after the games. Cities that think they will receive a massive boost in tourism to offset huge on white elephant venues are almost always disappointed.

But the thing is, I seriously doubt that Barcelona's tourists numbers skyrocketed right after the 1992 Summer Olympics merely bcuz on cruise port-of-calls there people got to see the city first-hand. It may have been a factor, but the rest I'm sure has to do with people who were/are going to Europe anyway, & otherwise wouldn't have included Barcelona on their European interniery pre-1992, then did after exposure of the Olympics.

I think Sydney didn't see that much of an increase in tourism after their 2000 Olympics for a few primary reasons:

1. Sydney is/was Australia's top tourist destination anyway.

2. It's generally incredibly expensive for Americans & Europeans to travel there, & then just to visit one country/region. &

3. It's a long-a$s haul to get there from Europe & North America.

So I don't think the Olympics would do that much for Melbourne, as far as tourism goes, for the above reasons, either.

I think that it's come to a general consensus nowadays that the Olympics aren't necessarily about boosting tourism nor about making money. It's mainly now, about national pride & showing to the world that you're now somekind of global power, particularly in cases like China & Russia. Or in some cases, bettering the city's landscape, like in London's & Barcelona's case.

I think the best thing to underestand about Barcelona, though, is that it was at the right place, at the right time. Barcelona was then IOC president, Juan Antonio Samaranch's, Hometown. And he moved heaven & earth to make sure that his city got the Games. I'm sure the last thing on his mind then was that Barcelona was going to become one of Europe's top three destinations down the road. All the ingredients were just right, & that's why so many cities so desperately try to emulate what they did, but virtually always to no avail.

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The IOC don't want an ready set city to host the games they want legacy and an Brisbane or Perth will give an massive legacy, Melbourne would be great as an back up host city, My mate she has an arena at the Melbourne Olympic Park named after her and she says that sports must be develop and markets in other areas of the the world/country to grow the sports.

Do you actually read what you post or do you just assume we're going to be able to understand your incoherent posts?

Here's the thing, as so often it needs to be stated here.. the IOC is not in a great position now to dictate what they want. If Australia wants to bid for an Olympics, they're going to choose the city that's best for them. You talk about developing in new markets, but is Perth (at best, Australia's 3rd most prominent city, and that's not changing anytime soon no matter how much they grow and develop) going to be the best choice to put that legacy? Melbourne as a back up host? You're out of your mind! (as usual).

Far be it from a Yankee such as myself to talk about what Australia might or might not do, but get over this obsession you have that Perth, because they have little and are ripe for development, is a better choice for an Olympic bid over Melbourne which already has a lot in place. They can get plenty of legacy out of Melbourne and have that legacy be useful. Perth, not so much.

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Seems like from the boards that the climate issue is what could hold back a Melbourne bid compared to the likes of Brisbane. If it is that big of an issue, how did Melbourne cope with the weather during the 1956 Olympics?

They were held in November/December...

The time window is a really new thing from the last few bid cycles, I think. Sydney must have been the last to be outside that window (September/early October).

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