Sir Rols Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Who said they had to pay? By building these apartments you give them the housing infrastructure the city and country needs post Olympics. The government is indeed currently addressing the housing problem by building such apartments. Do they expect them to afford it? No of course not, they are building such things regardless to provide the necessary housing and to eliminate the slums. Slums the likes of which next host Rio has. But such housing will NOT go to the people who most need it the endemic corruption there would ensure that. Or if it did, it would only be the tiniest of drops in the ocean of what is needed. It;s like suggesting we should build big Westfield Malls in remote aboriginal communities to give them somewhere "nice" to shop - all very well, except they'd have no money to shop in them. I think you should visit Kenya to see what real poverty is like. Obviously you have some mis-guided impression based on watching the Lion King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 This thread feels like something out of the Twilight Zone. I can't believe this is even a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 It won't help it completely obviously, but it would help in some regards. Think of the new light rail lines built for the games, the athlete's village turned public housing, the hotels which could be converted to public apartments if demand is not sufficient post Olympics. On an interesting note, Kenya plans by 2030 to be a basic developed nation. A bold plan for them to achieve. But are the Olympics necessary to improve their daily lives? Not only that, but are light rail lines and token public housing merely a fringe benefit used as justification for hosting the Games? Couldn't any outside assistance be better served educating the country's people, building schools, farms, neighbourhood roads, etc? "nature," for all his faults, admittedly had the best proverbs. He once said you can't cover the sky with your hand. A two week party isn't going to cover up everything that needs fixing in Kenya. (In fact, the only way you can cover the sky with your hand is to cover your eyes with your hand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 But don't you see? You are putting the cart (or Rolls Royce, in this case) in front of the horse. And it isn't exactly a Clydesdale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 But don't you see? You are putting the cart (or Rolls Royce, in this case) in front of the horse. And it isn't exactly a Clydesdale. Another "nature" proverb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Fan Darcy Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I only have 2 things left to say firstly 2024 is not good for them to bid. however i think what David is saying is if they were to host the conditions would improve and like we've seen in Baku since bidding they have started to become more "olympic worthy" planning to build a 60 000 seat stadium. Hopefully if they bid they will improve such areas of living. However we may all be wrong (probably) and nothing will come from nairobi when 2024 deadlines comes. Secondly people didn't think China could host an olympic games back in the 70's yet they just hosted one. Things can change, rapidly. May or may not be the case for Kenya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 This thread feels like something out of the Twilight Zone. I can't believe this is even a debate. Hey, it's the Kenyan Prime Minister who proposes that Nairobi should bid. And if the country does go ahead with such a thing there's no amount of arguing and debating here that will stop it. They won't make the Candidate stage for sure, but will get some infrastructure benefit and more importantly, international exposure, coming out of any bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 But don't you see? You are putting the cart (or Rolls Royce, in this case) in front of the horse. And it isn't exactly a Clydesdale. I love this.^^^ Once again, the Olympics are great, but they aren't sacred. They are not the answer to all humanity's problems. There are FAR better ways to support and build up a struggling third world nation than burdening them with the responsibility of hosting the world's most expensive two-week party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Fan Darcy Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Hey, it's the Kenyan Prime Minister who proposes that Nairobi should bid. And if the country does go ahead with such a thing there's no amount of arguing and debating here that will stop it. They won't make the Candidate stage for sure, but will get some infrastructure benefit and more importantly, international exposure, coming out of any bid. There that's it, thats what David meant not that they should win, that putting a bid forward would put there name out there (doha) and maybe help improve infrastructure in the area to increase chances (baku) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yep, it comes down to Kenya's leadership. At best, this is just a publicity stunt. At worst, this shows a leader who is completely out of touch with the realities of the world and the needs of his people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Forget about Doha putting their name out there. The extreme wealth of the nation of Qatar obviously shows that they can host, but their stubbornness to host in October makes any of their bids pointless, even if EVERYTHING was in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I don't know why people are surprised about this. It's not the first time a Nairobi bid balloon has been raised. At most, they won't make the short list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 This should sum it up: China spent doubled Kenya's entire GDP on the 2008 Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Africa will not host the Olympics Games not for another 26 years they still have bigger fish to fry even in South Africa no city in South Africa is ready to host the Olympics Games any time soon and they still need to build up things needed to win the Olympics Bid South America has just gotten ready to host the Olympics Games and that will be in Rio de Janeiro Brazil 2016 and Brazil was the 8th biggest economy in the world 5th biggest economy Brazil will be when they host the Olympics Games in 2016 I think it will be in 2040 when Africa will host their 1st Olympics and Paralympics Games will be in 2040 in Cape Town South Africa they still have a long way to go to be ready for the Olympics Games Africa.does Nairobi Kenya is a joke Nairobi is the Doha Qatar of Africa it's never going to happen in my life time and I am young person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I don't know why people are surprised about this. It's not the first time a Nairobi bid balloon has been raised. At most, they won't make the short list. I don't know how many people are surprised that Kenya wants to bid (I'm not). The thing that surprises me is that anyone would argue such a bid could be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattperiolat Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Oy vey... As much as any Olympics fan, I'd love to see an Olympics in an African nation. Would show the expansion of the games and the arrival of an African nation on the world stage. BUT... See, I've seen the economic miracles the Games have brought to cities and nations that can both handle the expense and help the cities "arrive" on the global stage, Barcelona and Sydney being two examples. But I've also seen the Olympics crush counties that could not handle the expense and could not possibly reap enough benift from the Olympic makeovers, Athens being the example. If a country's economy nor the city infrastructure can support the cost of the makeover, infrastructure upgrades nor be in a position to reap future benefits, they have no business bidding. Athens is the cautionary tale, folks. Greece will recover, but it is going to take a very very VERY long time. Frankly, it's a lesson that has been taught twice with Montreal being the other example. But some just refuse to learn. Bottom line - based on where Nairobi and Kenya are in the global scheme of things, this screams bad idea. It would slam Kenya economically into a hole they would not recover from and any progess they have made would would be lost so rapidly, it's not even funny. Tis all well and good to want to make nations better for the future, but it should not come at the expense of that nation's ability to support itself. As the old saying goes, give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime. If we want an Olympics in Kenya, then Kenya needs to make strides in that direction and we can discuss a Games toward then end of this century, not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I have a long fascination with the Montreal Games. Many reasons for this fascination, but one of them has always been 'this is a wealthy country and Montreal was a city that hosted a wildly successful Expo just 9 years earlier...how did they muck up so much in 1976?' - so I've read a lot on the topic. Everyone knows the stories of the strikes, the mayor, the architect, the complexity of the stadium, the terrible economy of the 1970s, the the political situation in Quebec, and so one. But one of the most interesting assessments was that culturally, Canada was probably not yet ready for the Summer Olympics in the 1970s. Certainly, Montreal at that time was the country's largest city, vibrant and alive, had a brand new Metro, hosted one of the century's greatest World Fairs and was well known and well connected to the world. The fundamental infrastructure wasn't the problem. Primarily, the problem was that Canada was a country with only one true sports obsession - ice hockey. Sure, Canada a had clutch of Olympic medals from each Olympiad and across a variety of sport. But Olympic sports weren't deeply engrained into the Canadian psyche. That meant the Montreal '76 organizers would have to do everything from scratch - that included building a sporting culture so there would be the technical knowledge on hand to organize and execute the Games. That wasn't as simple as pouring concrete (which in Montreal's case, wasn't simple either). In the end, Montreal 1976 has mixed legacies. Canada gained vital Olympic experience and developed a greater passion for sports outside of hockey. But Montreal suffered crippling debt and a bruised reputation for decades to come. So the point here? If the wealthy, prosperous, well-developed city of Montreal with a sporting history that at least was home to one of the most legendary and successful franchises in professional sport wasn't truly ready to host the Olympic Games of 1976, how can a city with only the most basic of infrastructure, in a country with an economy only a fraction the size of Canada's, with a sporting legacy that really only comes in running and boxing (sports that don't really require expensive training venues) possibly be considered as a place to be selected in 5 years to organize and stage the most complicated sporting event on Earth 12 years from this very very very limited starting point? The answer is: 'IT CAN'T'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY20?? Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 That meant the Montreal '76 organizers would have to do everything from scratch - that included building a sporting culture so there would be the technical knowledge on hand to organize and execute the Games. That wasn't as simple as pouring concrete (which in Montreal's case, wasn't simple either). That's interesting. I've always thought Montreal's failures were exclusively limited to construction of venues and cost overruns, I didn't know the 1976 Games had glaring organizational and logistical mishaps as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 No...everything I read said the Montreal Games were pretty well organized on that side of the equation. It just took a gargantuan effort to get them there. But for a city/country that was mostly impassioned to sports performed on ice, the idea of a velodrome was a strange concept. So imagine that in a country where people like the Maasai make houses out of cow dung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY20?? Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ah ok, understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olympikfan Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I thought that the Olympics are a global event. Last time I checked Nairobi is part of the sports world. What about the argument that the Olympic help improve infrastructures (public transit, airport) sports fatalities that will leave a true lasting sport legacy because African athletes would now have state of the art facilities to train. OR do the Olympics belong to the city that can hand over the biggest check. Besides Canada has had its turn to the Olympics. Its Africa time to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I thought that the Olympics are a global event. Last time I checked Nairobi is part of the sports world. What about the argument that the Olympic help improve infrastructures (public transit, airport) sports fatalities that will leave a true lasting sport legacy because African athletes would now have state of the art facilities to train. OR do the Olympics belong to the city that can hand over the biggest check. Besides Canada has had its turn to the Olympics. Its Africa time to shine. That's like saying the Bolshoi should hire a 300 pound, one-legged prima ballerina because she deserves her chance to shine. It's like saying US track and field should have me run the 100m. The goods aren't there. I simply cannot deliver. No matter how much I'd love to upset Usain Bolt, I wasn't made that way. The ingredients aren't there for Nairobi. They CANNOT do it. It has nothing to do with elitism. It is simply impossible for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 You are comparing a city and country to people? If Kenya had absolutely little Olympic tradition and history then sure. But they do. And they deserve the chance. They won't win, but they deserve the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 ^ I never understand your vehement arguments about these cities "deserving a chance", if u yourself admit that they won't win anyway., i.e. Baku-ku, Edmonton N now Nairobi. It's a MOOT point then! There's nothing to argue further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 We live in a world which gives people a chance. For example, we have various political parties which stand no chance at an election, yet we still give them a chance to voice their views and get meager votes. They won't win, but we give them a chance. Why should we deny those that want to aspire to an Olympics a chance? Just because we know at the end they won't win? If that were the case, then at the very start we'd just have told Baku and Doha to forget about it. We let them bid as to offer them a chance and submit their proposal. Oh and Baku will end up winning someday, their bid will come stronger and stronger. Doha will never win (mostly due to dates) and Edmonton could win, we just have to wait and see if they ever want an Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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