Faster Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 The argument against pentathlon is that it is one of the most niche sports at the Olympics (probably is the most niche) and it is expensive to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 f beach volleyball. Why do we have to have that as well as ordinary volleyball? Two words...TV ratings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted August 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 The argument against pentathlon is that it is one of the most niche sports at the Olympics (probably is the most niche) and it is expensive to run. Expensive how? All venues would be built for other sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Expensive how? All venues would be built for other sports. Horses, horses, horses. Oh, and horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 So much of it comes down to whether or not you get a good draw on the horse, You might be able to argue that a few people lose because of a bad horse (though it's unclear how much of that is rider fault vs horse) very little of the competetion comes down to getting a good draw with your horse. The top performerss all get close to maximum scores on the equestrian portion... you'll such much less variation between top performers in the equtrian than in the other diciplines. Horses, horses, horses. Oh, and horses. How much - in rough dollars - do the hourses cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufus Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 The only sports I'd remove, if any, are the ones you can't be good at by the age of 18 unless you're wealthy or have governmental support. Anything without kid-from-the-wrong-side-of-the-tracks-trains-in-a-dilapidated-facility-but-goes-on-to-beat-the-world-bringing-home-gold-to-America disney movie potential, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 The problem with staging the Modern P is that they have to move the whole MP operation over the various venues over several days. Modern Pentathlon is a one day event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 The trouble is with removing Modern Pentathlon (which I agree, is of minimal audience interest) is it's De Coubertin's baby. It's one of the traditions that the IOC would hang on to unless they had no alternative. I doubt it would save much money or free up much logistics if it was removed anyway. The competitor pool for it isn't large compared to other sports, and as has been mentioned, it used existing venues for other sports. Not a great deal to gain from the IOC dumping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triffle Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 The trouble is with removing Modern Pentathlon (which I agree, is of minimal audience interest) is it's De Coubertin's baby. It's one of the traditions that the IOC would hang on to unless they had no alternative. I doubt it would save much money or free up much logistics if it was removed anyway. The competitor pool for it isn't large compared to other sports, and as has been mentioned, it used existing venues for other sports. Not a great deal to gain from the IOC dumping it. Other than allowing a genuine sport like Squash, Karate or Softball to be included on the Olympic programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Other than allowing a genuine sport like Squash, Karate or Softball to be included on the Olympic programme. All of which would be more expensive in terms of venue requirements, and bring in more athlete mouths to feed, than Modern Pentathlon. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no interest in MP, and would not miss it or probably even notice it if it went. But it's just not an event that placed much in the way of burden on the backs of the OCOG, and considering its sentimental value to the IOC as its very "own" contribution to the sports roster, I think they'd be more keen to cut back on events in other disciplines before they dump de Coubertin's "baby". Let's face it, if they were serious about cutting costs, they'd get rid of the likes of sailing and equestrian. But you'd see screams of outrage from many (including us Australasians) if ever that was suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufus Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'd be fine dropping the horsies. I quite like Modern Pentathlon, but I'd switch out the horsies for cycling, maybe a single circuit of the Mountain bike course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksheep Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 any sport such as Football where winning the Gold Medal is not the pinnacle of that sports achievements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'd be fine dropping the horsies. I quite like Modern Pentathlon, but I'd switch out the horsies for cycling, maybe a single circuit of the Mountain bike course? There you go, I like the horses. Shows how fraught cutting anything can get. To my taste, I'd like to trim those sports where the Olympics is just a sideshow. Golf, tennis and perhaps football. Though I went to Murray's Wimbledon Gold and have to say it ws one of the highlights of London for me. And football at least does spread the games around a country. But, well, I'm prepared to be consistent and accept losing those three if it came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 All of which would be more expensive in terms of venue requirements, and bring in more athlete mouths to feed, than Modern Pentathlon. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no interest in MP, and would not miss it or probably even notice it if it went. But it's just not an event that placed much in the way of burden on the backs of the OCOG, and considering its sentimental value to the IOC as its very "own" contribution to the sports roster, I think they'd be more keen to cut back on events in other disciplines before they dump de Coubertin's "baby". Let's face it, if they were serious about cutting costs, they'd get rid of the likes of sailing and equestrian. But you'd see screams of outrage from many (including us Australasians) if ever that was suggested. Nope. Only softball would bring a substantial amount more then MP. Karate is 130 and Squash would be 64 less then MP. Also Karate could double up a facility with wrestling for example. Rio is building 3 new facilities for MP, something either Karate or Squash do not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Other than allowing a genuine sport like Squash, Karate or Softball to be included on the Olympic programme. If those are the best alternatives, then MP should absolutley stay. All have serious flaws at least as significant as MP's, without the Olympic tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 any sport such as Football where winning the Gold Medal is not the pinnacle of that sports achievements Well, for Football it's not the picacle for the men's version, but I would argue that the Olympics is definitively the pinnacle of women's Football and IMO Football is worth keeping for that alone. In Canada, at least, the highlight of the games was definitively the women's Football tournament. If those are the best alternatives, then MP should absolutley stay. All have serious flaws at least as significant as MP's, without the Olympic tradition. Curious about what are the serious flaws with Squash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triffle Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 All have serious flaws at least as significant as MP's, without the Olympic tradition. Not only is MP's participation levels minuscule, the vast majority of the population in most countries I'd expect to have never even heard of MP. I'd say that's a fairly significant flaw, superseding all others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Curious about what are the serious flaws with Squash. Seems only to be a 'Commonwealth' sport...But there's no reason for it not to be there as part of the raquet program. Some of these 'sports' my seem strange to us BUT perfectly acceptable to others as the IOC tries to include all nations a chance to 'own a gold' so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Going back and looking at Squash only a select few countries have ever won medals at the WC, still better then table tennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Curious about what are the serious flaws with Squash. Lack of spectator appeal, plus need for a specialized otherwise unusable venue. MP has flaws, but it is at least a great ticket to get to watch live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobart Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 BMX is popular? Only in English-speaking countries I guess. English speaking countries does not mean worldwide. I think we can compare BMW with skeleton in Winter games. For sure it is fun, but that's all. I am sure the people of Latvia 2 Gold, Columbia 1 silver 1 bronze, Netherlands 1 bronze and France 1 gold 1 silver would all be interested in knowing they are now considered English speaking. 2 Olympics 12 medals and 7 of the 12 from NON English speaking countries. Someone also suggested moving indoor sports like Handball or Basketball to the Winter Olympics but this wouldn’t cut costs just make the Winter Games bigger and often they are hosted by smaller cities anyway. I think the best option is to cut events within some sports like Mix doubles from Tennis, Table tennis, Badminton and team event in Fencing. Golf should also be cut should never have been added to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logico Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Lack of spectator appeal, plus need for a specialized otherwise unusable venue. MP has flaws, but it is at least a great ticket to get to watch live. Squash has now a special venue that can be assembled in every site, even in front of pyramids, if necessary, and than dismantled and sent to another place/country/event. It has transparent walls for TV and spectators view with other electronic devices to make ball more visible and so involving spectators in the game. Squash is young side, to match one of the actual IOC principle (involve more young people in olympics): i think a 20-30-40 years old prefer squash game than weightlifting or golf, or equestrian. Any way squash isn't yet in olympics so, coming back to the topic, I think some sports give medals to very few countries, like badminton, table tennis, fencing, pentathlon, equestrian. Pentathlon and equestrian are, furthermore, too much european oriented disciplines, very few results for south america, africa, asia (only some royal family from middle east in equestrian). very bad to watch awarding cerimony with same flags for 1st, 2nd, even 3rd place (see table tennis with China, fencing with Italy...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 Squash has now a special venue that can be assembled in every site, even in front of pyramids, if necessary, and than dismantled and sent to another place/country/event. It has transparent walls for TV and spectators view with other electronic devices to make ball more visible and so involving spectators in the game. Squash is young side, to match one of the actual IOC principle (involve more young people in olympics): i think a 20-30-40 years old prefer squash game than weightlifting or golf, or equestrian. Any way squash isn't yet in olympics so, coming back to the topic, I think some sports give medals to very few countries, like badminton, table tennis, fencing, pentathlon, equestrian. Pentathlon and equestrian are, furthermore, too much european oriented disciplines, very few results for south america, africa, asia (only some royal family from middle east in equestrian). very bad to watch awarding cerimony with same flags for 1st, 2nd, even 3rd place (see table tennis with China, fencing with Italy...) Every continent but Oceania has won Fencing medals at the last Olympics, and even just within Europe we had medals from countries as diverse as Italy, Hungary, Norway and Russia. Point being, it's not like Fencing has a poor medal spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDS69 Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Deciding which sports should stay and go is always difficult, but I feel that the following three sports should go: rhythmic gymnastics, synchronized swimming, and modern pentathlon. The other two components of Olympic gymnastics (artistic and trampoline) have a better international spread than rhythmic gymnastics, which has been dominated exclusively by Russia since after the 1996 Summer Olympics. Ditto for synchronized swimming. It doesn't seem like there is a concerted effort to make those sports truly competitive. I think that they think that since Russia is the dominant force (and since they're hungry to continue cracking the Chinese market), there's no need to grow the sport any more than it needs to. I watched an Olympic modern pentathlon competition for the first time on television during London 2012, and while the combined final event does add excitement, I think that modern pentathlon is somewhat of an anachronism. Of those three sports, I'd be most hesitant to remove modern pentathlon. Aside from removing whole sports, I think that many of the current sports should be revamped and reduced, like track cycling was after the 2008 Summer Olympics. I'd also like to see quotas reduced in many of the combat sports. When taekwondo was added to the Olympic program, they limited the events to four per gender and a maximum of two athletes per gender per country. Boxing, judo, and wrestling could use a quota reduction. No more than five men per country in boxing, and no more than four men and four women in judo, weightlifting and both freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling. And in weightlifting and shooting, only one entry per country per event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logico Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Every continent but Oceania has won Fencing medals at the last Olympics, and even just within Europe we had medals from countries as diverse as Italy, Hungary, Norway and Russia. Point being, it's not like Fencing has a poor medal spread. Okay, let us study it better and make some consideration: fencing fencing is in Olympics since the first edition, that means 27 Olympic Games,99 countries and 3973 qualified participants. Only 34 countries in the whole history received medals. Among the first 10, only one is not european, among the other 10 only 3 are not european, from the 44 medals for 1st place (Italy) we arrive immediately to have only 8 medals at the 5th place (Germany). In London only 13 countries received medals, 5 from europe, 3 from asia, 2 fron america, 1 from africa This means in my opinion that fencing is an exlusiveli Eurocentric sport, with some exeption and, though I am Italian, I really am imbarrassed as sportman to see 3 italian flags on the podium. Table tennis. Only 11 countries received medals in all TT Olympic history. 22 medals to China, 3 Korea, ....one gold to sweden... The rest of the world is not present Again, I like very much TT (badminton too) but I think the Olympics are a Universal event for the World, not for a bunch of heroes for almost the same countries. For this goal they already have their World and continental Championships. In Olympics should be different, Olympics are not a sum of all sport World championships: look at Athletic, swimming, taekwondo, judo, cycling, rowing, they gave medals to many countries all around the world, they and others disciplines ARE the Olympic Games for the umanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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