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Shrek201

1st-hand impressions of Istanbul and Turkey

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Yes, Baron has a propensity for self-aggrandizement. That's no state secret. But I've never been to Istanbul, so I'm interested in his impressions. I certainly don't regard them as definitive or "expert" by any stretch of the imagination. That said, I think the experience of Joe-tourist is relevant to a discussion of Istanbul as potential Olympic host -- even if he didn't get on the subway.

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Yes, Baron has a propensity for self-aggrandizement. That's no state secret. But I've never been to Istanbul, so I'm interested in his impressions. I certainly don't regard them as definitive or "expert" by any stretch of the imagination. That said, I think the experience of Joe-tourist is relevant to a discussion of Istanbul as potential Olympic host -- even if he didn't get on the subway.

This thread is another perfect example of a thread relevant to this forum turned sour by the frustrations and venalities of an insecure, petty, envious, unhappy soul. Thanks to the likes of you, krow, and that other sociopath, this forum just sinks deeper into a morass of spite and negativity.

How I travel (and obviously, AF, this is not directed at you) is my business, and I don't see by what moral right anyone has a right to judge or criticize how I go about my business or my views. And until such a time as you CAN PAY for my trips and PAY ME to write what you want to read, then you'll just have to put up with it. U can always change the channel you know...or go tour all the subways and sewers of Hades to your heart's (granting even one beats there) content. But no, you choose to be hateful and churlish, you sad, spiteful, self-loathing harpy.

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This thread is another perfect example of a thread relevant to this forum turned sour by the frustrations and venalities of an insecure, petty, envious, unhappy soul. Thanks to the likes of you, krow, and that other sociopath, this forum just sinks deeper into a morass of spite and negativity.

stop projecting. you know very well what the majority of this forum thinks of you. i needn't even remind you about the scores of 'like this post's that i got last time i called you out on your infantile behavior. and then there's the little matter of your account being banned for being so impossibly stubborn and hateful.

you'll note we could probably count the number of other banned users since you originally joined almost a decade ago on two hands, yet you're one of the few who simply can't take the hint. a three month break means everyone is so exhausted at having to deal with your megalomaniac bipolar bullshit that no one wants to see you for three months.

How I travel (and obviously, AF, this is not directed at you) is my business, and I don't see by what moral right anyone has a right to judge or criticize how I go about my business or my views. And until such a time as you CAN PAY for my trips and PAY ME to write what you want to read, then you'll just have to put up with it. U can always change the channel you know...or go tour all the subways and sewers of Hades to your heart's (granting even one beats there) content. But no, you choose to be hateful and churlish, you sad, spiteful, self-loathing harpy.

oh it's plenty my business when you start threads talking up your silly travels.

i just found it patently ridiculous that you traveled like a little old man then had the nerve to start making these definitive pronouncements like "i just don't see how they can pull it off." we have people who LIVE in istanbul to defer to, thank you very much, even if they didn't write a little vanity book that while cute and informative at times, was also riddled with low-res pix and typos every third page. and yes, baron. i actually read the thing.

i guess you're perfectly entitled to make up any opinion you want and stick by it (although whether you're entitled to post it on a board you've been expressly banned from is another matter) just as i am perfectly entitled to drive a chevy through the holes in your reasoning.

i'm not going to sink into a childish round of name calling though, because there's no reason to stoop to your level. suffice it to say that i think many will agree with me when i say i have no idea where you get off climbing on a pedestal to complain this forum is sinking into a "morass of spite and negativity," but you might kindly review some of your own exchanges with other users if you're looking for the real source of the problem.

losing your **** like an animal over a bad amazon review, while hilarious to witness, was not exactly the high point of manners and intellectual discourse on gamesbids.com.

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anything else?

funny how the original post here actually got a few 'likes' (which wasn't even my intent). It's rich how you ridicule a "middle class" way of travel...yet you couldn't even pay full price for the book as others here have so done--in so doing you insult most of the posters here, including myself, who are I believe, of middle-class status. But you, I guess, are the rich, cheap pseudo-elite as I imagine you think you are, who lives in the suburbs east of LA. :rolleyes:

So, I guess my estimates of Istanbul's chances are also way off. Funny how the IOC preliminary Eval Committee came to the same conclusions. :rolleyes: And they, of course, will be viewing and assessing (all) the cities' chances also in the 'little old man's" way--in secluded, especially guided, private caravans; not from the subways and the mobs. Bad IOC; bad, bad IOC. Too bad they couldn't use another pseudo-aristocrat's expertise and know-it-all on their committee.

I guess I should take it as a compliment of some sort that u are more consumed about me, about how I travel, how I write, other facets of my private life--than I am about you. It's kinda creepy and sleazy.

May you never 'grow old,' krow. The world would lose such an 'innocent,' totally useless, totally pointless gem. :rolleyes:

Time to jump in the shower.

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anything else?

funny how the original post here actually got a few 'likes' (which wasn't even my intent). It's rich how you ridicule a "middle class" way of travel...yet you couldn't even pay full price for the book as others here have so done--in so doing you insult most of the posters here, including myself, who are I believe, of middle-class status. But you, I guess, are the rich, cheap pseudo-elite as I imagine you think you are, who lives in the suburbs east of LA. :rolleyes:

So, I guess my estimates of Istanbul's chances are also way off. Funny how the IOC preliminary Eval Committee came to the same conclusions. :rolleyes: And they, of course, will be viewing and assessing (all) the cities' chances also in the 'little old man's" way--in secluded, especially guided, private caravans; not from the subways and the mobs. Bad IOC; bad, bad IOC. Too bad they couldn't use another pseudo-aristocrat's expertise and know-it-all on their committee.

I guess I should take it as a compliment of some sort that u are more consumed about me, about how I travel, how I write, other facets of my private life--than I am about you. It's kinda creepy and sleazy.

May you never 'grow old,' krow. The world would lose such an 'innocent,' totally useless, totally pointless gem. :rolleyes:

Time to jump in the shower.

oh baron. i didn't give you my HOME ADDRESS, you know. lol, i didn't want to have something bad to say about your book and have you show up at my house. although i feel lots better since i don't live on any of the guided tour routes, so i know you couldn't possibly stop by.

and typical you, ignoring everything but what you want to focus on. i don't have any problem with middle class people, obviously, or with guided tour packages per se. i have a problem with you doing the barest of minimums, casually dropping in and seeing a sanitized tourist version of the city then giving your "impressions" like they mean anything at all. they don't, and i'm sick of explaining this point over and over again, so if you haven't gotten it by now it's safe to say you'll remain just as clueless no matter what i say.

now i'm off to go poll anyone who's ever been to newark airport on what their impressions of NYC's olympic chances are from seeing the skyline from the tarmac.

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Er, what the f'ck is this thread about?

Last I thought it was simple impressions of a trip to Turkey for which I went on a pleasure trip primarily and NOT on an IOC-Olympic-exploring trip. Being an Olympic aficionado, I squeezed in and gleaned some impressions of Istanbul as an Olympic wannabee in whatever free time I had but not to detract from my primary pleasure purposes. But oh no, the views which were entirely my own, NEVER claimed that they would be the be-all, weren't good enough for Mr. Know-it-all Krow who hasn't even set foot there...whereas at least 3 of us here (you, Kenadian and I) have actually touched Turkish and Istanbul soil. I got castigated that because I didn't get to the subway, I was in no position to formulate any valid opinions, etc.,...and other ridiculous garbage spewing from a seriously damaged mind.

I was slammed for traveling the way I chose, could and could afford--mind you, NOT asking anything from him -- without the schmuck even knowing what ground we covered, and which I shall not bother to elaborate.

As I said, it's turned into some demented thread just because I did not consult with the Grand Poobah that the posts were not to his du jour liking. Well, last I checked the Ottomans no longer live at the Topkapi nor Turkey and have been scattered to the 4 corners of the earth. Didn't expect to find one in southern California who evaluated my trip as a FF because I did not step into the Istanbul subway. Krow, do alert me when you will next lead a Subways of the World tour, and I will be sure to make myself scarce.

Jeez, excuse me for living!!

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ugh it's back.

i just can't wait for london to be over and for you to kindly get that life you've promised us is waiting for you.

better yet, just get banned again.

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Here's my erudite response to all this: Yuck!

Krow, you're at your best when you wittily expose some of the amusing contradictions of Olympic world.

Baron, you're at your best when you offer intelligent analysis with a twist of humor.

Neither of you is at your best here. Let's not all allow ourselves to be dragged down to the egomaniacal pettiness of you-know-who. I've succumbed to that temptation myself on occasion and it just isn't worth it. If these boards aren't fun, why are we here?

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Don't encourage him. I really don't understand what salubrious or positive effect the stunt accomplished.

Of course, I would respond.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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Don't encourage him. I really don't understand what salubrious or positive effect the stunt accomplished.

Of course, I would respond.

I'm confused by this post. PM me if u want.

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I think both of you (Baron and krow) have made some interesting points and it leads back to why inspection visits should not be reinstated.

"Dear IOC member - here is an overhead view of our main stadium - but look here - Turkish delight! Nom nom nom! You have now experienced our culture. Vote please or should I cover your palm with gold?"

I've been to Madrid twice - I even watched some football there and *gasp* visited a prospective venue and used the subway to get there - but that sure as he!l would not allow me to make a formative view of the cities capabilities to host an Olympics. As a huge fan of independent travel the thought of even a day tour fills with me with dread however it is a reliable option to make sure you get the most bang for your back - so I don't see why Baron should be crucified for that. It's not my bag but thats just me.It has to be said though - this could be the frontrunner for post of the year -

baron gets the scoop on istanbul's olympic chances... by visiting the tourist hotspots on a guided tour. diabetic-friendly snack pack and bottled water waiting for you when you get back from the gift shop.

Bitchy yes, but undeniably funny. Even in your faux indignation Baron I am sure that raised a chuckle!

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Bitchy yes, but undeniably funny. Even in your faux indignation Baron I am sure that raised a chuckle!

Not really, considering I am borderline diabetic. But hey, if making fun of afflictions and limitations is now de rigeur, then all gloves and bets are off. Pups, and it wasn't faux. I mean who the hell is he is to judge/criticize how I go about my private life,time and spending. It's NONE of his F*CKING BUSINESS!! And he's too old to be a cute whippet anymore.

Anyway, enuf time spent on a totally pointless, churlish, unpleasant, odious cause.

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I agree that supervised bid city visits should be reinstated. It's crazy to ask people to choose between places they've never seen. Somebody just has to babysit those morally loose IOC members (no small task, I realize).

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Not really, considering I am borderline diabetic. But hey, if making fun of afflictions and limitations is now de rigeur, then all gloves and bets are off. Pups, and it wasn't faux. I mean who the hell is he is to judge/criticize how I go about my private life,time and spending. It's NONE of his F*CKING BUSINESS!! And he's too old to be a cute whippet anymore.

Anyway, enuf time spent on a totally pointless, churlish, unpleasant, odious cause.

Does krow know you are borderline diabetic? I didn't know that. I know about the other health issues but didn't know that. I hope you are able to manage it and you keep kicking on for some time yet.

As for the faux indignation comment - the two of you are having a whale of a time going at each other - thus it is hard to sympathise when krow is obviously (successfully) trying to get a rise out of you and you respond by feeding his the attention that his comments really didn't justify.

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I've been to Istanbul three times and think it is an extraordinary city, and would make for an interesting games, even though I usually haunt the Greek quarter, where they have little good to say about the Republic or the bid. I think London has shown how historic cities can frame venues to make visually enduring memories, and Istanbul could certainly do that as well.

I agree with some of the posts that suggest crossing the Bosphorus is a chore, but it has got significantly better in the last decade, and it wouldn't be too difficult to get a much larger waterbus fleet to cope with the demand. The public transport system is crowded and hot (but so is the Tube in London), and unlike Paris or London with relatively stable populations, Istanbul has tidal influxes of people from Anatolia which are difficult to plan for unless you take a Chinese approach and ban free movement.

It probably won't matter to the IOC, but seeing the amount of gay material on this board, it is disappointing that Turkey still hasn't done a lot to improve the lot of its LGBT citizens. I only know 3 gay turks, and each one has been attacked, one by his family, and one put in hospital. None of them want to go back. It probably is a bit better in Istanbul, but decisive action from the government would send a message.

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As a Gay person only Spain has full and equal rights for me and Tokyo Japan we LgayBT people are protected from discrimination but in Turkey LGBT people are not protected from discrimination Turkey is a very homophobic nation and the last place that I want to see the Olympics Games in is a Homophobic Nation Japan is coming around and becoming LGBT Friendly country I don't see Turkey ever becoming LGBT friendly and also Women rights in Turkey Women rights in Turkey is not great as well they still have honour killings in Turkey Human rights in Turkey is not that great even in China Women have far better rights then they do in Turkey I do not see Turkey hosting the Olympics Games for a long time.

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As a Gay person only Spain has full and equal rights for me and Tokyo Japan we LgayBT people are protected from discrimination but in Turkey LGBT people are not protected from discrimination Turkey is a very homophobic nation and the last place that I want to see the Olympics Games in is a Homophobic Nation Japan is coming around and becoming LGBT Friendly country I don't see Turkey ever becoming LGBT friendly and also Women rights in Turkey Women rights in Turkey is not great as well they still have honour killings in Turkey Human rights in Turkey is not that great even in China Women have far better rights then they do in Turkey I do not see Turkey hosting the Olympics Games for a long time.

But the selection of IOC host cities is NOT done thru LGBT filters and lenses. There are the Gay Games for that. Again, this is a slightly askew view. The IOC can't win for living. :rolleyes:

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As a Gay person only Spain has full and equal rights for me and Tokyo Japan we LgayBT people are protected from discrimination but in Turkey LGBT people are not protected from discrimination Turkey is a very homophobic nation and the last place that I want to see the Olympics Games in is a Homophobic Nation Japan is coming around and becoming LGBT Friendly country I don't see Turkey ever becoming LGBT friendly and also Women rights in Turkey Women rights in Turkey is not great as well they still have honour killings in Turkey Human rights in Turkey is not that great even in China Women have far better rights then they do in Turkey I do not see Turkey hosting the Olympics Games for a long time.

If China can win a bid with their human rights record - Turkey can win with a homophobic record.

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As a Gay person only Spain has full and equal rights for me and Tokyo Japan we LgayBT people are protected from discrimination but in Turkey LGBT people are not protected from discrimination Turkey is a very homophobic nation and the last place that I want to see the Olympics Games in is a Homophobic Nation Japan is coming around and becoming LGBT Friendly country I don't see Turkey ever becoming LGBT friendly and also Women rights in Turkey Women rights in Turkey is not great as well they still have honour killings in Turkey Human rights in Turkey is not that great even in China Women have far better rights then they do in Turkey I do not see Turkey hosting the Olympics Games for a long time.

not homophobic... the most reputed singer ever is a gay zeki müren and turks called him as the sun of art, altough another best and most known singer is bülent ersoy a transexual 3 times married... mostly whle singers are gay and people knows that.. and athletes too...

people ont want their sons to be a gay and gays dont want their families know their special lives. like me;) i know no ones cares if m gay or not but i dont want to share my private life with my family and they dont ask it too...

as a conclusion Turks are not homophobic ... gays are so into our lives and culture even in our history but its st sacred nobody want s to say or share,,,

god knows how many times we sing tis songs wit friends and family drinking rakı and eating..... RIP zeki müren...:(

and last clip of bülent ersoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlKfOMPXess

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not homophobic... the most reputed singer ever is a gay zeki müren and turks called him as the sun of art, altough another best and most known singer is bülent ersoy a transexual 3 times married... mostly whle singers are gay and people knows that.. and athletes too...

people ont want their sons to be a gay and gays dont want their families know their special lives. like me;) i know no ones cares if m gay or not but i dont want to share my private life with my family and they dont ask it too...

as a conclusion Turks are not homophobic ... gays are so into our lives and culture even in our history but its st sacred nobody want s to say or share,,,

god knows how many times we sing tis songs wit friends and family drinking rakı and eating..... RIP zeki müren... :(

Zeki was a man?? :wacko: The Turkish Liberace!!

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Zeki was a man?? :wacko: The Turkish Liberace!!

indeed, and he was a real living god for people here. when his car stuck in he traffic people carry his car ( thats true cause my fatrher was one of dem) .. thats how we loved and respect him. best Istanbul turkish speaking human ever and best classical turkish music singer song writer performer...

its so funny to say turks are homopfobic while we adore a guy like this. but its his special life and noone ever asked or talked about it.

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Where are they thinking about putting the Olympic Stadium and Athletes Village?

Any idea on a date for the games?

Not clear yet. According to their Mini Bid Book they'll use Atatürk Olympic Stadium for the Athletics and a new stadium near the Bosphorus for the ceremonies with the Athletes' village besides Atatürk Olympic Stadium, but there are also plans to build a stadium and village as part of the Yenisehir project about 35km from Istanbul itself.

August, 7th until August, 23rd are their proposed dates.

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