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Toronto City Council Overwhelming Votes On 2024 Summer Olympic Bid


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Calgary and Montreal hosted within 12 years of each other and Canada's performance back then was much worse back then, compared to right now.

Yeah, but it was the WINTER Games (which Canada is much better at anyway, & would've been their first) that followed those 12 years after '76.

Plus, Calgary's only competition was Cortina D'ampezzo, which had already hosted, & Falun, Sweden, which was not as technically sound of a bid like Calgary's was.

This time, it's the other way around. Where there's stiffer & more compelling competition for the SUMMER Olympics.

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The city is obviously going to choose the 2024 Olympic bid over the 2025 Expo. It's a no brainer. And since this is being studied now and its getting early publicity we can guarantee an official bid even though it is early out. The previous bid cycles we only heard rumors of a bid happening behind closed doors. Nothing ever was officially announced until the bid deadline approached. The city will have hosted the Pan Am's in 2015. It would be in their favour to continue off the heels of that. The morale and excitement level of Torontonians should be high around that time and the approval rating should be great.

Wow. Guarantee an official bid? Based on one city council vote? Hmmmm...

Well if the USA bids doesn't matter who wins because that will be the biggest obstacle. From what I have heard and read an Istanbul bid would have Europe/Asia blocked as well maybe the IOC wanting to return to an "older host"

That's a matter of opinion. I'm not convinced Istanbul would block either Tokyo or Paris. I think it could shave a bit off of Durban and would definitely rule out Doha and Baku.

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The whole "an Istanbul win would rule out Asia & Europe" is so overblown, it's not even funny. There's no logical evidence or even a hypothesis for this. Other than some bias binoculars & ears most likely hearing & reading those things.

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Yes, Calgary and Montreal were 12 years apart, but look at WHEN that happened. The US got a slew of Games. Europe had a higher percentage too.

This is a different era. Non-traditional hosts are increasingly viable. That changes the rotation. The IOC is not strapped for options. They are not going to let ANYONE host two Games within 14 years -- not the US, not China and definitely not Canada. Those days are gone. The most likely way Toronto wins 2024 is if everyone else steers clear of the race because of SA and then the IOC realizes SA can't deliver. Toronto would be a reliable back-up plan.

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Yes, Calgary and Montreal were 12 years apart, but look at WHEN that happened. The US got a slew of Games. Europe had a higher percentage too.

This is a different era. Non-traditional hosts are increasingly viable. That changes the rotation. The IOC is not strapped for options. They are not going to let ANYONE host two Games within 14 years -- not the US, not China and definitely not Canada. Those days are gone. The most likely way Toronto wins 2024 is if everyone else steers clear of the race because of SA and then the IOC realizes SA can't deliver. Toronto would be a reliable back-up plan.

Rome was the heavy favourite for 2020 while they were still in it- just 14 years after Torino- and that was a Summer Games. While they were in the race, PC's 2018 win was seen as a bigger detriment to Tokyo than Italy's financial troubles were to Rome (Rome didn't seem to suffer from the perception of financial trouble that Madrid did and does). It was only after Rome left the race that PC's 2018 win didn't seem to matter anymore to Tokyo's chances, because Madrid and Istanbul had even bigger challenges than Tokyo.

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Comparing Italy to Canada is not an apples to apples comparison, though. It's much the same like comparing it to the U.S. It's not the same argument. Italy is still a better summer sports powerhouse & has clout in the Olympic realm.

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Rome was the heavy favourite for 2020 while they were still in it- just 14 years after Torino- and that was a Summer Games. While they were in the race, PC's 2018 win was seen as a bigger detriment to Tokyo than Italy's financial troubles were to Rome (Rome didn't seem to suffer from the perception of financial trouble that Madrid did and does). It was only after Rome left the race that PC's 2018 win didn't seem to matter anymore to Tokyo's chances, because Madrid and Istanbul had even bigger challenges than Tokyo.

But because Rome dropped out, it can't be used as supporting evidence. Saying "they might have won" does not help. They might also have been defeated which would have supported my position. The Bid Index ranked Rome below Istanbul, Tokyo and Madrid, so "favorite" is a matter of opinion. As it is, Rome 2020 proves nothing.

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I think you'll find Istanbul was ranked above Madrid and just below Tokyo.

It still amazes me that people think Istanbul is risky. Granted it has not held a 2 week multi sport event but few cities have. Over the last few years Istanbul has hosted a very large number of major European and World Sporting events, and has some of the best stadiums in Europe if not the World, for athletics, football and indoor events.

It has held a Champions League Final, A FIBA World Championship and a World Indoor Athletics Championships ... in the last 5 years, all successfully. They have an 75,000 seat Olympic stadium, two football stadiums of 50,000+ one of which has a sliding roof and 4 major indoor arenas of capacity between 12,000 and 22,000 seats. Risk is often associated with the construction of venues and cost overruns .... well Tokyo is riskier because they don't even have their main stadium built yet.

Likewise why is Rio or South Africa risky? Brasil is the 6th largest economy in the world and was hosting a very successful Pan-American Games only 5 years ago. In the last 15 years, South Africa has hosted a Rugby World Cup, a Cricket World Cup, an All African Games and a FIFA World Cup.

For me, cities bidding with bids full of conjecture and artist impressions of future facilities are far more riskier than cities with stadia like the Ataturk Olympic Stadium or the Moses Mabhida Stadium already built and open

No Istanbul was ranked lower then Doha on the evaluation report thing

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Comparing Italy to Canada is not an apples to apples comparison, though. It's much the same like comparing it to the U.S. It's not the same argument. Italy is still a better summer sports powerhouse & has clout in the Olympic realm.

The difference between comparing Canada and Italy is negligible. It's not like comparing Canada to the US or China or Russia. Italy if anything is a middle Olympic power, a notch above Canada but nothing special that it deserves greater special treatment than Canada would. And while the difference between Rome 1960 and Rome 2020 would be greater than Montreal's 1976 and Toronto's 2024, it's not the biggest difference in the world either. Other middling countries like Australia (at the time) and Japan have either won or been strong contenders in similar time frames (40-50 years apart).

And while Italy has more clout than Canada in the Olympic realm, that's not a question of whether one deserves the Olympics after a certain time frame. That's more a question of how well one country can lobby better than another.

But because Rome dropped out, it can't be used as supporting evidence. Saying "they might have won" does not help. They might also have been defeated which would have supported my position. The Bid Index ranked Rome below Istanbul, Tokyo and Madrid, so "favorite" is a matter of opinion. As it is, Rome 2020 proves nothing.

How can you say Rome proves nothing when they made a formal bid and was seen as the heavy favourites? This isn't some phantom hypothetical bid, theirs was a real bid for a time, and was agreed at large by others of being a strong contender (let alone favourites). This counters any argument that a country can't get a Summer Games 14 years after a Winter Games.

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But Australia hasn't hosted 2 Winter Olympics, either. And Australia is a greater Summer Olympic power. And I don't really consider the comparison with Canada & Italy as "negligible". Really, on a bias supporter would make such a statement, sorry. One also has to take into account the Eurocentricness of the IOC as well, that makes them vote how they do.

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But Australia hasn't hosted 2 Winter Olympics, either. And Australia is a greater Summer Olympic power. And I don't really consider the comparison with Canada & Italy as "negligible". Really, on a bias supporter would make such a statement, sorry. One also has to take into account the Eurocentricness of the IOC as well, that makes them vote how they do.

I said "at the time." When Sydney won in 1993, they were hardly the summer Olympic power they are now. And we're not talking about hosting 2 Winter Olympics, we're talking about whether a country can host the Summer 14 years after the Winter.

If you want to argue that the US is first in line before Canada, that's one thing. To say that a country like Canada can't get 2024 after 2010, or can't get 4 Olympics in 50 years, that's another thing. Like I said, this isn't the first time a non-superpower has come close to 4 Olympics in 50 years. Tokyo was seen as a legitimate contender for 2016. That would've given Japan 4 Olympics in 52 years, and in the same order that Canada is gunning for (summer, winter, winter, summer). And had Italy won 2020, that would've been 4 for them too in 60 years. Now you can say that that hasn't happened, so it doesn't prove anything, or that Italy/Japan are on a different level than Canada, but you're not going to convince me that Italy/Japan would get any more special treatment than Canada would. US/China/Russia/Germany yes, the others, no.

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How can you say Rome proves nothing when they made a formal bid and was seen as the heavy favourites? This isn't some phantom hypothetical bid, theirs was a real bid for a time, and was agreed at large by others of being a strong contender (let alone favourites). This counters any argument that a country can't get a Summer Games 14 years after a Winter Games.

If Rome had won, you could use them as evidence that the IOC has no problem with one country hosting two Games so close to each other. But it's not over until the IOC votes. Some people thought Chicago 2016 was a heavy favorite too -- especially at the very beginning. If they had dropped out just before the start of the 2016 race, you could've cited them to prove your point too. Except that would've been misapplied. Just like your Rome 2020 illustration is misapplied. Just because some people saw Rome as a favorite (not everyone by a longshot -- remember Bid Index that ranked them 4th), doesn't say anything about how the IOC felt about the bid.

The IOC didn't vote on Rome therefore they are evidence of nothing.

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I said "at the time." When Sydney won in 1993, they were hardly the summer Olympic power they are now. And we're not talking about hosting 2 Winter Olympics, we're talking about whether a country can host the Summer 14 years after the Winter.

If you want to argue that the US is first in line before Canada, that's one thing. To say that a country like Canada can't get 2024 after 2010, or can't get 4 Olympics in 50 years, that's another thing. Like I said, this isn't the first time a non-superpower has come close to 4 Olympics in 50 years. Tokyo was seen as a legitimate contender for 2016. That would've given Japan 4 Olympics in 52 years, and in the same order that Canada is gunning for (summer, winter, winter, summer). And had Italy won 2020, that would've been 4 for them too in 60 years. Now you can say that that hasn't happened, so it doesn't prove anything, or that Italy/Japan are on a different level than Canada, but you're not going to convince me that Italy/Japan would get any more special treatment than Canada would. US/China/Russia/Germany yes, the others, no.

But you said "within the same time frame of 40-50 years". Australia did NOT host 2 other Olympic Games within that same time frame though, is my point. Whereas Canada has.

And really, now you're going to compare the World's 3rd largest economy & with a population still 4 times greater than Canada? N I'm not saying that a country "can't" get..... only that it's highly UNLIKELY, considering all the variables. Two very different things.

And yeah, Tokyo was "seen" as a legitimate contender for 2016 & that "would've given" Japan 4 Olympics Games in 52 years, but yet they still LOST. The capital of the 3rd largest economy in the world & with a population of over 135 million, still did not manage to get the IOC to give them the 2016 Games. They went out in the 2nd round. So that example is not making any strides for your argument.

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But Australia hasn't hosted 2 Winter Olympics, either. And Australia is a greater Summer Olympic power. And I don't really consider the comparison with Canada & Italy as "negligible". Really, on a bias supporter would make such a statement, sorry. One also has to take into account the Eurocentricness of the IOC as well, that makes them vote how they do.

Yup Australia can't have a winter games and does pretty good at medals for summer, better then Canada actually and people laugh at a 2024 aussie bid but canada can have so soon after 2010, yes winter and summer are different but to me that should jeopardize, no it doesn't necessarily jeopardize USA but they do even better then Australia at medals and are good at both Summer and Winter. (i'm not arguing with you arguing with others)

I said "at the time." When Sydney won in 1993, they were hardly the summer Olympic power they are now. And we're not talking about hosting 2 Winter Olympics, we're talking about whether a country can host the Summer 14 years after the Winter.

If you want to argue that the US is first in line before Canada, that's one thing. To say that a country like Canada can't get 2024 after 2010, or can't get 4 Olympics in 50 years, that's another thing. Like I said, this isn't the first time a non-superpower has come close to 4 Olympics in 50 years. Tokyo was seen as a legitimate contender for 2016. That would've given Japan 4 Olympics in 52 years, and in the same order that Canada is gunning for (summer, winter, winter, summer). And had Italy won 2020, that would've been 4 for them too in 60 years. Now you can say that that hasn't happened, so it doesn't prove anything, or that Italy/Japan are on a different level than Canada, but you're not going to convince me that Italy/Japan would get any more special treatment than Canada would. US/China/Russia/Germany yes, the others, no.

Italy and Japan were in top 10 summer medals for 2008 Canada wasn't

which was same as 2000 and 2004

How can you say Rome proves nothing when they made a formal bid and was seen as the heavy favourites? This isn't some phantom hypothetical bid, theirs was a real bid for a time, and was agreed at large by others of being a strong contender (let alone favourites). This counters any argument that a country can't get a Summer Games 14 years after a Winter Games.

I didn't see Rome as heavy favourites and i'm sure others didn't too, Torino was a problem + the fact that they aren't a stable economy right now and had dilemmas building up at that point berlusconi stepping down, etc etc, i didn't think the IOC would award them the games anyway

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No Istabul was ranked below Doha which wasn't shortlisted. The working group ranked Istanbul the lowest if the three.

Bid Index

Istanbul 60.20

Tokyo 59.92

Madrid 55.10

Doha 53.08

Baku 43.08

Power Index

Tokyo 67

Instanbul 65

Madrid 65

Doha 63

Baku 61

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Bid Index

Istanbul 60.20

Tokyo 59.92

Madrid 55.10

Doha 53.08

Baku 43.08

Power Index

Tokyo 67

Instanbul 65

Madrid 65

Doha 63

Baku 61

From the actual bid document

Thank you trebor for this

Istanbul (85.50 - 110) Avg 6.98

Tokyo (101.50 - 123.00) Avg 8.02

Baku (62.50 - 93) Avg 5.55

Doha (89.00 - 114.50) Avg 7.27

Madrid (103.00 - 123.50) Avg 8.05

Venues Village IBC/MPC Sport Enivor Accoum Tranp Medical Safety Telec Energy Legal Support Finance TOTAL

Istan

Low 6 6 6 5.5 5 6 5 7 6 6 6 7 8 6 85.50

High 8 8 8 7 7 8 7 8 7 8 8 9 9 8 110.00

Avg 7 7 7 6.25 6 7 6 7.5 6.5 7 7 8 8.5 7 6.98

Tokyo

Low 7 8 8 7 5.5 9 8 8 7 9 5 7 6 7 101.50

High 9 9 9 8 8 10 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 8 123.00

Avg 8 8.5 8.5 7.5 6.75 9.5 8.5 8.5 8 9 6.5 8 7.5 7.5 8.02

Baku

Low 4 5 4 3.5 4 3 4 5 4 5 4 6 7 4 62.50

High 7 8 6 5.5 7 5 7 7 6 7 5.5 7 9 6 93.00

Avg 5.5 6.5 5 4.5 5.5 4 5.5 6 5 6 4.75 6.5 8 5 5.55

Doha

Low 5 7 7 5 4 5 6 8 6 7 7 6 8 8 89.00

High 8.5 9.5 9 7.5 6 8 8 9 7 8 9 7 9 9 114.50

Avg 6.75 8.25 8 6.25 5 6.5 7 8.5 6.5 7.5 8 6.5 8.5 8.5 7.27

Madrid

Low 8 7 6 7.5 7.5 8 8 8 7 9 8 7 7 5 103.00

High 9 9 9 8.5 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 9 8 123.50

Avg 8.5 8 7.5 8 8.25 8.5 8.5 8.5 7.5 9 8.5 8 8 6.5 8.09

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From the actual bid document

Thank you trebor for this

Istanbul (85.50 - 110) Avg 6.98

Tokyo (101.50 - 123.00) Avg 8.02

Baku (62.50 - 93) Avg 5.55

Doha (89.00 - 114.50) Avg 7.27

Madrid (103.00 - 123.50) Avg 8.05

Venues Village IBC/MPC Sport Enivor Accoum Tranp Medical Safety Telec Energy Legal Support Finance TOTAL

Istan

Low 6 6 6 5.5 5 6 5 7 6 6 6 7 8 6 85.50

High 8 8 8 7 7 8 7 8 7 8 8 9 9 8 110.00

Avg 7 7 7 6.25 6 7 6 7.5 6.5 7 7 8 8.5 7 6.98

Tokyo

Low 7 8 8 7 5.5 9 8 8 7 9 5 7 6 7 101.50

High 9 9 9 8 8 10 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 8 123.00

Avg 8 8.5 8.5 7.5 6.75 9.5 8.5 8.5 8 9 6.5 8 7.5 7.5 8.02

Baku

Low 4 5 4 3.5 4 3 4 5 4 5 4 6 7 4 62.50

High 7 8 6 5.5 7 5 7 7 6 7 5.5 7 9 6 93.00

Avg 5.5 6.5 5 4.5 5.5 4 5.5 6 5 6 4.75 6.5 8 5 5.55

Doha

Low 5 7 7 5 4 5 6 8 6 7 7 6 8 8 89.00

High 8.5 9.5 9 7.5 6 8 8 9 7 8 9 7 9 9 114.50

Avg 6.75 8.25 8 6.25 5 6.5 7 8.5 6.5 7.5 8 6.5 8.5 8.5 7.27

Madrid

Low 8 7 6 7.5 7.5 8 8 8 7 9 8 7 7 5 103.00

High 9 9 9 8.5 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 9 9 8 123.50

Avg 8.5 8 7.5 8 8.25 8.5 8.5 8.5 7.5 9 8.5 8 8 6.5 8.09

Clearly the IOC however place greater emphasis on certain elements than others and whilst the IOC marginally gave Doha an advantage, it was exactly that - marginal - and other elements not as quantifiable also come into play.

Doha's points were falsely inflated in such areas as 'Energy' and 'Finance' but in areas such as environment like fell behind and only had a max of 6 - clearly environment for Athletes and Spectators is vital and holds a value far greater than other areas evaluated.

It should be noted that the difference between Min and Max in a number of elements for Doha are quite big - for examples venues it was MIN 5 MAX 8.5 ........... in all of the criteria, the Istanbul bid never had more than 2pts between MIN and MAX evaluation

Even the Tokyo bid had two criteria (Support and Energy) where the difference was 3pts.

So in fact the Istanbul bid is not risky because the IOC are far better placed to know exactly what they are getting.

After all Madrid had the best overall evaluation and no-one rates them as better than 3rd favourites.

Which is why the unofficially indexes are more representative as they tend to be more reflective of those qualities which are not measurable. Lets not forget that neither London nor Rio were in the top 2 of the initial technical evaluations.

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Yeah, but it was the WINTER Games (which Canada is much better at anyway, & would've been their first) that followed those 12 years after '76.

Plus, Calgary's only competition was Cortina D'ampezzo, which had already hosted, & Falun, Sweden, which was not as technically sound of a bid like Calgary's was.

This time, it's the other way around. Where there's stiffer & more compelling competition for the SUMMER Olympics.

Much better? They did not win a single gold in Montreal and Calgary, in contrast they won 14 which is more then all of Asia and Oceania won in Vancouver. Thus proving Canada was not a sporting power in both those years yet they got the event.

Comparing 2004 with 2008 in terms of medals

2004 2008

Japan 37 25

Italy 32 27

Canada 12 18

There you go while the two countries above are slightly on the decline Canada increased its total and its goal for 2012 is top 12 (or about 25 medals which would tie it with Japan).

"Plus, Calgary's only competition was Cortina D'ampezzo, which had already hosted, & Falun, Sweden, which was not as technically sound of a bid like Calgary's was."

Oh Cortina hosted already, but you think LA can beat Toronto which hasn't hosted in 2024? Falun might not have been technical but the most technical bid does not win all the time, so Falun could have sprung a surprise. However 1984 was in Europe it probably was time to give it to another continent.

This time, it's the other way around. Where there's stiffer & more compelling competition for the SUMMER Olympics.

Durban, Paris and the USA are competition and with some maneuvering and luck Toronto has a chance to nab 2024.

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Rome was the heavy favourite for 2020 while they were still in it- just 14 years after Torino- and that was a Summer Games. While they were in the race, PC's 2018 win was seen as a bigger detriment to Tokyo than Italy's financial troubles were to Rome (Rome didn't seem to suffer from the perception of financial trouble that Madrid did and does). It was only after Rome left the race that PC's 2018 win didn't seem to matter anymore to Tokyo's chances, because Madrid and Istanbul had even bigger challenges than Tokyo.

Some felt that way, not everyone. I've been on record long before Rome dropped out that PC 2018 to Tokyo 2020 was never as big of a hinderance as some would make it seem. Beijing nearly won 2000 after Nagano 1998 (and it was still an Asia-Pacific city that won). Then PC comes within a couple of votes of winning 2010 right after Beijing 2008. And I think it shows just how much PC's win does anything to Tokyo that 1 candidate drops out and suddenly everyone sees the light, that maybe it wasn't such a big deal in the first place because it's not like an entire continent has been taken out of the picture.

Again, I think we here, because of the way we view these races, tend to put way too much emphasis on turns and rotations and time being hostings and who has been waiting long enough and who has hosted too many times or too few times. When it comes down to it, these bits and pieces of geopolitics will probably play a factor, but IMO not to the extent that sometimes we make it seem here.

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Oh Cortina hosted already, but you think LA can beat Toronto which hasn't hosted in 2024? Falun might not have been technical but the most technical bid does not win all the time, so Falun could have sprung a surprise. However 1984 was in Europe it probably was time to give it to another continent.

Durban, Paris and the USA are competition and with some maneuvering and luck Toronto has a chance to nab 2024.

Again, let's compare apples to apples, shall we. Comparing Cortina D'ampezzo with Los Angeles? Yeah, okay. N besides, we don't even know who the actual U.S. would/could be. Same goes for Toronto. The city is far from making a decision on the matter. Not to mention, if it'll get provincial, federal & NOC support.

And Durban, Paris & an American bid would be more than just "competition". All 3 of those would be COMPELLING, formidable opponents to any Toronto bid.

N yeah, you're right. The most technical doesn't always win. N that was greatly proven when Toronto lost to Beijing.

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Again, let's compare apples to apples, shall we. Comparing Cortina D'ampezzo with Los Angeles? Yeah, okay. N besides, we don't even know who the actual U.S. would/could be. Same goes for Toronto. The city is far from making a decision on the matter. Not to mention, if it'll get provincial, federal & NOC support.

Province and Federal governments + NOC all are on board.

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