Philadelphia 2028

[Athensfan]

1980 and 1984 were both in the USA on opposite sides of the country.

Even though the games have grown, so has sport in general and many locations already have a number of the facilities in place with big stadiums and arenas.

I can imagine a Western Winter Olympics and a Eastern Summer Olympics held within 2 years of each other.

Not in the USA in the 21st century. Those days are over. The US will not host two Games any less than 10 years apart. I think even 10 years is unlikely.

[Blacksheep]

If Asia wins 2020 I see that 2024 might be for Europe... Then 2028 might be the North America turn... (Toronto or Chicago/LA/an american city)

I think Paris 2024 will be a 110% total French effort where they will do everything to make it completely faultless.

I still think the US should bid, but similar to sticking your toe in the water before the whole foot goes in in 2008

Not in the USA in the 21st century. Those days are over. The US will not host two Games any less than 10 years apart. I think even 10 years is unlikely.

Ultimately but if Europe wins in 2022, do they back to back Europe for 2026 as well.

They've done Athens and Turin, London and Sochi, and maybe Pyeongchang and Tokyo - as there are only two countries in North America having a double back to back might be unavoidable especially if the field is light.

[Athensfan]

Back to back WOGs in Europe are totally possible. It's Europe! Plenty of candidates and the IOC is lopsidedly European.

[intoronto]

I think that often we too frequently look at both the locations of Summer and Winter games in tandem which the latter because of topography requirements are from a much narrower potential audience

1992-1994 = 3 games all Europe

2004-2006 = Athens and Turin, both Europe

2012-2014 = London and Sochi, both Europe.

if its 2018 and then Tokyo = both Asia.

I can see both 2022 and 2024 (Paris?) going to Europe

then 2026 and 2028 both North America

then 2030 (China?) and 2032 Africa

I never said it would be - however I did suggest that it would make Philadelphia a surprisingly strong contender if the city was chosen by the USOC added to it being a part of the US not previously visited by the Olympics

1980 and 1984 were both in the USA on opposite sides of the country.

Even though the games have grown, so has sport in general and many locations already have a number of the facilities in place with big stadiums and arenas.

I can imagine a Western Winter Olympics and a Eastern Summer Olympics held within 2 years of each other.

After all in the USA, the games are privately funded, so its a case of whether the individual hosts have the corporate financial strength to fully finance the games.

Off course they don't have too, but considering we have three winter Olympics in a row with Asia likely out of the question with a back to back wins from PC and Tokyo that means without the USA (or Canada, which seems unlikely) we will have 3 in a row European WOG.

[Blacksheep]

Back to back WOGs in Europe are totally possible. It's Europe! Plenty of candidates and the IOC is lopsidedly European.

I don't think the IOC is as anti-American as has been made out.

Yes politics play a part, but reading about the Chicago failure something which was raised as a possible problem was the difficulty of even visiting America these days. Maybe in 2026/2028 the world won't be so dangerous.

Whilst a certain regionality does play a part, the IOC could justify the first US winter games in 24 years and the first summer games in 32 years especially if opening new parts of the USA never visited by the Olympic family before.

[Athensfan]

Off course they don't have too, but considering we have three winter Olympics in a row with Asia likely out of the question with a back to back wins from PC and Tokyo that means without the USA (or Canada, which seems unlikely) we will have 3 in a row European WOG.

No. Harbin will break that up. 2022 (almost certainly Europe). 2026 (Europe or Harbin). 2030 (Europe or Harbin). At most there would be two back to back European WOGs and its possible that even that won't happen.There's nothing that says the IOC must come back to North America and it's reasonable to think the frequency of Asian hostings will increase. That's why the US does not HAVE to bid for a WOG. The IOCs greatest incentive to give the US a WOG is to make sure they don't get a SOG anytime soon.

[intoronto]

No. Harbin will break that up. 2022 (almost certainly Europe). 2026 (Europe or Harbin). 2030 (Europe or Harbin). At most there would be two back to back European WOGs and its possible that even that won't happen.There's nothing that says the IOC must come back to North America and it's reasonable to think the frequency of Asian hostings will increase. That's why the US does not HAVE to bid for a WOG. The IOCs greatest incentive to give the US a WOG is to make sure they don't get a SOG anytime soon.

I don't think Harbin is a realistic choice, considering the resort town is over 200km away from the main city.

I don't think Harbin is a realistic choice, considering the resort town is over 200km away from the main city.

+ 2026 if Harbin wins that means upto 3 Asian games in less then 10 years.

[Blacksheep]

I think Jilin is a more realistic option. It has already paired with larger cities to host Universiades

[Quaker2001]

Wow, already 6 pages in a thread on Philadelphia, I love it. Although it seems the past 2 pages have become a pissing match, so let's attempt to get this one back on topic. Blacksheep, you're absolutely right.. Quaker2001 is a reference to having graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, so yes, if there's an expert on this forum on Franklin Field, it's me. And here's the problem..

That 9 lane track looks regulation, but it's not. The inside of lane 1 I believe is only 356 meters around. It's lane 4 that represents the 400m length. As you can see, you have that brick wall goes right up to the outside of the last lane. So even if adding seats to Franklin Field happened, you still wouldn't have the track. So in essence, you'd have to completely demolish the stadium and rebuild it from scratch in order for it to be viable. And I have a feeling Penn won't be too keen on letting that happen. For a long time, I though the University of Pennsylvania would be a great hub of action. There's a lot of housing, a couple of major venues including a nearby, not to mention 1 of the transportation hubs in 30th Street Station within walking distance. But Penn has done a lot of renovation/beautification to the area in recent years, so suddenly that doesn't seem like the safest option.

The problem with Philadeliphia, IMO, is that they suffer from a little bit of an inferiority complex being situated between the capital of the US and the financial capital of the world. But I think that's what they would use as motivation. New York bid for the Olympics and as soon we lost, it was like "whatever, we have more important things to worry about." Philadelphia might be in it for the long haul to justify themselves as a major city. They may be a level below New York and LA and Chicago, but I think they're big enough to mount a challenge (although I know many here will disagree with that). Still, the problem remains that any venue plan is going to be less than adequate, so it probably needs to be a long term project. That all said, if New York is not destined to land an Olympics in my lifetime, my secondary pipe dream would be for Philadelphia to land it. I can envision the Liberty Bell in the logo already!

[Blacksheep]

Wow, already 6 pages in a thread on Philadelphia, I love it. Although it seems the past 2 pages have become a pissing match, so let's attempt to get this one back on topic. Blacksheep, you're absolutely right.. Quaker2001 is a reference to having graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, so yes, if there's an expert on this forum on Franklin Field, it's me. And here's the problem..

That 9 lane track looks regulation, but it's not. The inside of lane 1 I believe is only 356 meters around. It's lane 4 that represents the 400m length. As you can see, you have that brick wall goes right up to the outside of the last lane. So even if adding seats to Franklin Field happened, you still wouldn't have the track. So in essence, you'd have to completely demolish the stadium and rebuild it from scratch in order for it to be viable. And I have a feeling Penn won't be too keen on letting that happen. For a long time, I though the University of Pennsylvania would be a great hub of action. There's a lot of housing, a couple of major venues including a nearby, not to mention 1 of the transportation hubs in 30th Street Station within walking distance. But Penn has done a lot of renovation/beautification to the area in recent years, so suddenly that doesn't seem like the safest option.

The problem with Philadeliphia, IMO, is that they suffer from a little bit of an inferiority complex being situated between the capital of the US and the financial capital of the world. But I think that's what they would use as motivation. New York bid for the Olympics and as soon we lost, it was like "whatever, we have more important things to worry about." Philadelphia might be in it for the long haul to justify themselves as a major city. They may be a level below New York and LA and Chicago, but I think they're big enough to mount a challenge (although I know many here will disagree with that). Still, the problem remains that any venue plan is going to be less than adequate, so it probably needs to be a long term project. That all said, if New York is not destined to land an Olympics in my lifetime, my secondary pipe dream would be for Philadelphia to land it. I can envision the Liberty Bell in the logo already!

Cheers Quaker,

2 questions ...

1) Is Franklin Field historically protected? Would University of Penn be open to the exterior being retained for historic reasons but the interior being gutted and rebuilt in a horse shoe form, maybe with a third tier just for the games but removed afterwards leaving a modern stadium inside a retained exterior?

sorry that's two questions

2) do you still live in Philadelphia? I see that Atlanta are already talking of replacing the Georgia Dome for the NFL Falcons and that is only 20 years old. Come 2028, the Eagles Lincoln Financial Field will be 25years old and I wonder if a new stadium might be converted post games for the Eagles with the Lincoln being knocked down afterwards?

[Blacksheep]

This sort of thing

[Athensfan]

This sort of thing

Forget Philadelphia, I'd much rather see that!

[Blacksheep]

Forget Philadelphia, I'd much rather see that!

Except the Trojans want football only.

But it illustrates how an old stadium with an attractive facade can be respectively updated in any city - except Chicago

[Athensfan]

Harbin may not be ideal, but it seems to be the Chinese preference. Because the bid comes from China, the IOC will take it very seriously.

Certainly Harbin 2030 looks better in terms of continental rotation, but I don't think 3 Asian Games in 10 years is impossible -- particularly when two of them are Winter and all three are hosted by different countries. That sort of thing has happened before in North Anerica and Europe. Why not Asia, considering their rising influence?

[intoronto]

Harbin may not be ideal, but it seems to be the Chinese preference. Because the bid comes from China, the IOC will take it very seriously.

Certainly Harbin 2030 looks better in terms of continental rotation, but I don't think 3 Asian Games in 10 years is impossible -- particularly when two of them are Winter and all three are hosted by different countries. That sort of thing has happened before in North Anerica and Europe. Why not Asia, considering their rising influence?

Two Asian Winter Games before USA gets one or even Canada again? I don't see it. Maybe after the USA and Europe host China would be the ideal spot.

[Athensfan]

Two Asian Winter Games before USA gets one or even Canada again? I don't see it. Maybe after the USA and Europe host China would be the ideal spot.

Canada or the US could land 2024 or 2028. Also, if the obvious choices don't bid (think Durban, Rome) all bets are off and anything can happen. There may not be any WOG bids from North America.

[Quaker2001]

1) Is Franklin Field historically protected? Would University of Penn be open to the exterior being retained for historic reasons but the interior being gutted and rebuilt in a horse shoe form, maybe with a third tier just for the games but removed afterwards leaving a modern stadium inside a retained exterior?

2) do you still live in Philadelphia? I see that Atlanta are already talking of replacing the Georgia Dome for the NFL Falcons and that is only 20 years old. Come 2028, the Eagles Lincoln Financial Field will be 25years old and I wonder if a new stadium might be converted post games for the Eagles with the Lincoln being knocked down afterwards?

Not sure if it's protected, but I have a feeling it is. Either way, I don't think it's an option to leave the exterior standing and to rebuild the interior because of space limitations. Remember that you'd need to push the brick walls back to accommodate a full-sized track and then you're not going to have enough room to hold the extra capacity. Beyond that, Penn has made some improvements to the space immediately surrounding the stadium, so they might not be too receptive to having all that go for nothing. It should also be noted that the Palestra (often referred to as "college basketball's most historic arena") underwent a major renovation back in 2000 when I was still in school, but they only made improvements to the concourses in the arena, not the court or the seating arenas. That's how Penn views the history of their buildings.

I do not still live in Philadelphia, I moved back to New York when I graduated, but I still go down to Philadelphia a few times a year. Being a big fan of the NFL, I've heard the rumblings about the Georgia Dome. Supposedly their motivation is that they want a stadium with a retractable roof. Most football fans think the whole thing is a joke that they want a new stadium after only 20 years. I wouldn't apply that logic to Philadelphia.. it will probably take a lot longer than 2028 before they want to replace the Linc

[FYI]

I don't know much about cities bidding in there own country just assumed they picked, so did Philly try to go for 2016 but Chicago was picked.

Yes - for 2016, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston & Philadelphia all went before the USOC to get their nomination. Both Houston & Philadelphia were quickly dropped when the USOC conducted an informal poll with some IOC members to gauge their knowledge & interest with the cities in question. So Houston & Philadelphia didn't perfrom too well in it. So then it was left between Chicago, Los Angeles & San Francisco.

Then like a couple of months later, San Francisco officially withdrew their 2016 bid after the pending deal with the 49's about a brand-new stadium in the city fell apart (much like New York's 2012 stadium deal, but at least this time it happened in the domestic 2016 process rather than in the international phase a month before the 2012 final vote). So then Chicago & Los Angeles were the only two left standing after that, & you know the rest.

Certainly, if Philadelphia wants to try again, they should go for it. With both New York & Chicago in doubt that they would try again, Philadelphia could make a good case. It's certainly a much better option than the likes of lets say, Minneapolis, St. Louis or even Phoenix,

[FYI]

I don't think Harbin is a realistic choice, considering the resort town is over 200km away from the main city.

The resort distance for a Harbin candidacy is neither here nor there. It's still not that much farther than Denver to Vail is, at 100 miles, but yet many here deem Denver's candidacy as so superior.

Plus, Harbin is in China. Like Beijing (& the Russians with Sochi) the Chinese will throw everything they got once again to their first-ever Winter Olympics, & the IOC knows it.

Rogge has pretty much said that the Chinese still have to wait a bit longer for another Summer Olympics, but he didn't say anything about a Winter Olympics not being a good possiblity in the near-term.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

If Asia wins 2020 I see that 2024 might be for Europe... Then 2028 might be the North America turn... (Toronto or Chicago/LA/an american city)

What about Africa for 2028?

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

This sort of thing

Where's that? I'd definietely vote for that city! Ahah i love a good stadium!

I've joined the hosting dilemna a bit late but here's what i think

If tokyo wins 2020 which it has a high possibility i think that will jeopardize Harbin, pyongchang 2018 tokyo 2020 that'd set them back at leats til 2030

if asia wins 2020 maybe america 2022? or europe (possibly) and europe 2024, 2026 loser of 2022, 2028 america or africa 2030 maybe harbin 2032 loser of 2028 or europe or asia?

[Athensfan]

That would be the existing Los Angeles Coliseum plus a proposed roof. It is a great stadium and should only be renovated with the Olympics in mind.

There was actually a different (and VERY beautiful) roof concept floating around several years ago, but I can't find it now....

[Blacksheep]

That would be the existing Los Angeles Coliseum plus a proposed roof. It is a great stadium and should only be renovated with the Olympics in mind.

There was actually a different (and VERY beautiful) roof concept floating around several years ago, but I can't find it now....

I think a lot of the money for it is coming from USC and they are insisting on no running track.

However it does show how you can sensitively update an old stadium. With older stadiums the seating angle is much shallower, so if you gut the inside you can still keep the exterior facade but modernise the interior.

It is also in line with what Rogge/IOC said about lessening the 'environmental' footprint of the games - utilising existing facilities

[Athensfan]

As of now, the fate of the Coliseum is uncertain. The big issue is funding. Although there are various theories, nothing has been conclusively decided.

Please stop reporting that USC will be eliminating the track. Some hold that view, but not everyone. As of now there is no clear plan.

I live less than half an hour from the Coliseum and will continue to watch the situation closely. However, the debate has been going on for many years.

[Quaker2001]

As of now, the fate of the Coliseum is uncertain. The big issue is funding. Although there are various theories, nothing has been conclusively decided.

Please stop reporting that USC will be eliminating the track. Some hold that view, but not everyone. As of now there is no clear plan.

I live less than half an hour from the Coliseum and will continue to watch the situation closely. However, the debate has been going on for many years.

The track is already gone. They got rid of it in the renovations back in 1993 which were made in an effort to improve seating for football (when the Raiders were still in town). When they did that, they lowered the field and added several rows of seats and there were plans for more renovations, but the earthquake in 1994 and the departure of the Raiders put those on hold. So the stadium as it exists now could no longer accommodate the track unless those new seats were removed. See below, its fairly easy to spot where the sections of new seats were put in.

As for future renovations, here's what some research has revealed.. the exact terms of the lease between USC and and the coliseum are a little sketchy, but 1 of the provisions says that USC must make the Coliseum "available to any Olympic and International Special Olympic events." It remains to be determined if such a provision will be made if a new agreement is formulated. Either way, if there are major renovations made to the Coliseum, such as what is depicted above, you can be pretty sure that 1 of their main goals will be to get fans closer to the action which likely means there will be little, if any consideration for putting a track in the stadium.