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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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That wouldn't completely jibe with the quote. The article states: "

IOC coordination commission chair Denis Oswald tells

ATR

there definitely is a cauldron, but confirms it will only be visible within the Olympic Stadium." (My emphasis.) So even if it were lit in the stadium, then moved to a place visible outside the stadium, Oswald would still be lying. But, as you note, that would not be unprecedented; nor would it be terribly surprising.

I'd call it a "white lie"; the lighting "will only be visible within the Olympic Stadium", but not the burning flame. That would be less of a lie than Atlanta. ;)

I did not intend to imply that you did.

I wasn't sure, so I was just being clear. In any case, whoever put it in Wikipedia may have done so on the way from the OC--after a quick stop at the betting parlor, that is. :P
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Your comment doesn't make sense. It is fabric...but that is why Vancouver had a cauldron/brazier coming out of the ground...NOT suspended on/from the roof. And then you're saying because it is fabric, the chances are higher that a burning cauldron would appear here in London, suspended? Huh? :blink:

I'm just giving reference to another stadium that you all would be familiar with, to hopefully help people understand what the roof is made out off, I'm not suggesting any direct correlation. To your latter comment about the composition of the roof, yes I am saying because its fabric, there is a higher chance of a suspended cauldron because i am concerned that the fabric might burn.

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As far as the ATR article, I think my suggestion explains it: The lighting itself will be well within the stadium, as ATR reported; but the cauldron will then move to the stadium rim. But then it's not the first time OC organizers have lied about the cauldron lighting; I recall newspaper articles in 1996 suggesting the lighter would run thru a skybridge from the Atlanta stadium up a stairway inside the cauldron tower, but we all know now that's NOT how Muhammad Ali did it. ;)

#1 - I don't think Oswald was 'lying.' All he said was that he knew the cauldron would be visible from inside the stadium. He didn't saw it could NOT be partially seen from outside. And like other cauldrons, they do a 'small-burn' during the day; and then amp it up a little at night. And at Salt Lake for example, I saw the manuals, they even have what's called a "ceremonial" burn, i.e., FULL-BLAST.

#2 - Atlanta, Armajani designed the whole thing (tower, bridge) in full expectation that they would have someone running from the stadium, up those crazy stairs & actually get close to the red thing. All that was even tested w/ 4 women runners in Minneapolis (where Armajani'ss tudio is) in winter 1996. (Even that, the whole running thing fromt he base to the top took nearly ten minutes.) It was not until June or thereabouts that Billy Payne and Dick Ebersole decided they would go for Ali (who had also then accepted). Only problem was, he was already a sick and, a big man whom they could NOT transport to the top of the tower by helicopter because the chopper would've disrupted the ceremony; there was no heliport up there.

And after the flames were lit, he would have to walk down the tower himself because the chopper could not pick him up. But they still wanted to use Ali; so all that running business was junked...and what you saw was a totally scaled-down version of what might have been had they used 3 or 4 runners inside that cage-like thing. (See full story of this episode on page 107 of my book!) ;)

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Had another look through my photos from Monday.

This perfectly shows what I was talking about.

The difference between the clouds which were used and the cloud which sat on the roof.

I don't actually want the cauldron to be or to be on the cloud but its a nice bit of speculation.

50nz47.jpg

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I'm just giving reference to another stadium that you all would be familiar with, to hopefully help people understand what the roof is made out off, I'm not suggesting any direct correlation. To your latter comment about the composition of the roof, yes I am saying because its fabric, there is a higher chance of a suspended cauldron because i am concerned that the fabric might burn.

I understand your concerns about the fabric, of course.

The thing people are forgetting is that I believe the cauldron rose from the ground, on a rising platform/device that probably rose 25-30 feet (which would be as high as the Lake Placid platform) into the air; and then it started shooting flames upwards last night. And as I said, since that was the first time, there was a lot of pent-up gas in the pipes, therefore you were getting HUGE flames. But all that had nothing to do with a 'suspended' cauldron. The flames were just high because (i) there was all that pent-up gas; (ii) they were still calibrating the amount of gas to (iii) get the right 'ceremonial burn,' as they say.

And if it is Bannister, then it jibes perfectly that he would just light a lower cauldron at stage-level; and then it rises ever-higher on a platform.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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#1 - I don't think Oswald was 'lying.' All he said was that he knew the cauldron would be visible from inside the stadium. He didn't saw it could NOT be partially seen from outside.

Read the quote again: "IOC coordination commission chair Denis Oswald tells ATR there definitely is a cauldron, but confirms it will only be visible within the Olympic Stadium." (my emphasis)

If he has been quoted accurately, then Oswald is saying it will not be visible from outside the stadium.

I'd call it a "white lie"; the lighting "will only be visible within the Olympic Stadium", but not the burning flame. That would be less of a lie than Atlanta.

True... I guess that would be what we call "plausible deniability" :)

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Had another look through my photos from Monday.

This perfectly shows what I was talking about.

The difference between the clouds which were used and the cloud which sat on the roof.

I don't actually want the cauldron to be or to be on the cloud but its a nice bit of speculation.

50nz47.jpg

From that shot I do NOT think that's the cauldron; the flames would engulf the cables & pulley assembly, which wouldn't last for long. OTOH, a movable cauldron like Sydney's might work with a special cable harness.
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Had another look through my photos from Monday.

This perfectly shows what I was talking about.

The difference between the clouds which were used and the cloud which sat on the roof.

I don't actually want the cauldron to be or to be on the cloud but its a nice bit of speculation.

50nz47.jpg

It's a giant spider's nest?? :blink:

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By the way, I've seen this image before, but it just popped up on the BBC News liveblog and it got me thinking....

_61859937_ticket.jpg

Those - I don't know what to call them.. sticks? horns? pistils? - kind of look like they could be part of a sculpture made by the same guy who created this:

250px-B_of_the_Bang_(landscape).jpg

It would be amusing if the cauldron was right there on the OC ticket for everyone to see!

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I think that as we brits are nostalgic and love reminiscing, and no one is sure of any evidence of a cauldron. The 1948 cauldron was in a similar position to the tree and mound. There must be a logical reason why the stadium seating accommodates this raised area.

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By the way, I've seen this image before, but it just popped up on the BBC News liveblog and it got me thinking....

_61859937_ticket.jpg

Those - I don't know what to call them.. sticks? horns? pistils? - kind of look like they could be part of a sculpture made by the same guy who created this:

250px-B_of_the_Bang_(landscape).jpg

It would be amusing if the cauldron was right there on the OC ticket for everyone to see!

Already been speculated here ad infinitum. Doesn't lead anywhere (yet).

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I understand your concerns about the fabric, of course.

The thing people are forgetting is that I believe the cauldron rose from the ground, on a rising platform/device that probably rose 25-30 feet (which would be as high as the Lake Placid platform) into the air; and then it started shooting flames upwards last night. And as I said, since that was the first time, there was a lot of pent-up gas in the pipes, therefore you were getting HUGE flames. But all that had nothing to do with a 'suspended' cauldron. The flames were just high because (a) there was all that pent-up gas; ( B) they were still calibrating the amount of gas to © get the right 'ceremonial burn' as they say.

And if it is Bannister, then it jibes perfectly that he would just light a lower cauldron at stage-level; and then it rises ever-higher on a platform.

The problem with a center-of-stadium cauldron is seen in one of the earlier photos, which shows a group of cables from all rims of the stadium coming together at the center; if the cauldron were there, that cable assembly probably went up in smoke last night. I'm pretty sure the final location is on the rim, but it'll have to move from the floor for Bannister (or the like) to light it.
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nu4m, try this experiment at home:

  • attach a small ball of putty (or playdough or similar) to the edge of a bowl.
  • place the bowl on a table
  • then get down and look at the bowl from about 3 metres away and with your eyes at a position where the putty ball is exactly halfway between each side of the bowl as you are looking at it.

The ball of putty is the cauldron.

Even though the bowl is perfectly circular, from the right angle it can appear to be centrally located - even though it is not actually in the middle of the bowl itself. Its an optical illusion.

I am American, how many feet is in 3 meters, lol

And I love that you have done this experiment at home.

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Right to answer your question, the 'mystery cloud' is in the middle of the pyramid which is directly above the tree.

The cloud was moved inwards towards the centre slightly during the rehearsal but had no apparent function.

I don't actually think it is the cloud so sorry for bringing this up ;D

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*lol* It's only about 3 1/2 hours to go to the opening ceremony, and here we are, still guessing where that cauldron could go. ;) Once again, London did a splendid job keeping it secret.

And even now, the whole cauldron story is shrouded in mystery.

1) It's remarkable that no one besides that one guy in the far distance from the stadium filmed the fireworks rehearsals and put it on Youtube. If we had more videos (especially videos taken from a closer distance to the stadium), we could verify more easily whether that really is a flame we are seeing in the clip or not. But maybe there were more videos on Youtube and they were taken offline quickly because they showed to much?

2) As it was already pointed out, the cables above the stadium's infield actually prevent a flame in the centre being high enough to be visible also from the outside. The only explanation for that could be that in fact, the flame sits on the roof. But then we should have seen some construction activity on the roof, since I deem it impossible to install a cauldron there without any visible preparation work.

3) A cauldron hovering above the infield is impossible not only due to the cables, but also because it poses a serious risk having gas lines in mid-air above the infield.

So that still leaves the question: Where will it go? I won't bother guessing. I will rather lean back, wait the remaining hours and then just watch it. Maybe that's what we all should do. Lean back and enjoy it!

Again: Splendid job, London! ;)

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I think that as we brits are nostalgic and love reminiscing, and no one is sure of any evidence of a cauldron. The 1948 cauldron was in a similar position to the tree and mound. There must be a logical reason why the stadium seating accommodates this raised area.

Since Barcelona 1992, they have more or less placed a 'stage' to the left of the Tribune of Honor. That is more the 'tradition' carried on rather than any allusion to 1948. 1948's location was, I believe, also similar to Berlin's 1936 (altho that was by what's called the "Marathon Gate"). However, Barcelona placed their stage, and NOT the cauldron, beneath Montjuic's Marathon Gate.

The problem with a center-of-stadium cauldron is seen in one of the earlier photos, which shows a group of cables from all rims of the stadium coming together at the center; if the cauldron were there, that cable assembly probably went up in smoke last night. I'm pretty sure the final location is on the rim, but it'll have to move from the floor for Bannister (or the like) to light it.

I didn't say it was suspended in mid-air. The cauldron will rise from a platform in the ground to many feet in the air. And naturally, the flames would then add another how-many-feet for a total height.

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*BREAKING NEWS*

I will be able to tell you with absolutely no doubts where the cauldron is located, what it looks like, and the method of lighting!

I'll just have to wait 6 or 7 more hours for my source to confirm it.

:P

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*BREAKING NEWS*

I will be able to tell you with absolutely no doubts where the cauldron is located, what it looks like, and the method of lighting!

I'll just have to wait 6 or 7 more hours for my source to confirm it.

:P

As I'm right in the middle of NBC land, your source will still beat mine. :o

I didn't say it was suspended in mid-air. The cauldron will rise from a platform in the ground to many feet in the air. And naturally, the flames would then add another how-many-feet for a total height.

I was assuming that. The cable assembly I was talking about would STILL have been flame-broiled by last night's test, as it appears to be DIRECTLY OVER the center of the stadium. :P
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I was assuming that. The cable assembly I was talking about would STILL have been flame-broiled by last night's test, as it appears to be DIRECTLY OVER the center of the stadium. :P

I agree with you. But how else do you explain those flames then? But either they're repairing the damage from last night this morning or maybe they put in flame-proof cables there knowing they would be singed by flames??

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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