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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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You have no evidence of that.

Its certainly more likely than a flaming Cauldron dangerously hanging on wires over performers, elite athletes and the world's media below.

In Sydney the cauldron rode a track less than a few meters away from the audience.

In fact, a cauldron hanging in the centre of a stadium will be further away from people than if it was on the roof.

...and cables hold up many many bridges... There is no reason why they couldn't hold a cauldron up securely.

You have no evidence of that.

You have no evidence he was perfectly inline with he cauldron.

Hard to tell but the angle of the video seems to be slightly from the southeast and the flame seems to be centered. So the flame is not in line with the south north axis of the stadium. Therefore it could be on the rim or dead center of the rigging but not at either end on the rim. The flame looks enormous, and at that intensity might creat a conflict with any of the lighting towers if located anywhere on the rim. At this point it seems to be in the center if the rigging.

I agree with you.

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Hi everyone! I found on google earth the location where the video was broadcasted (I hope it is). Here I did some screenshots :

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/580161og2.jpg

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/350541og3.jpg

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/140536og1.jpg

I hope these pics will help you to establish the location of the cauldron.

Those are great! And I'm surprised it lines up with those entrances. Very very interesting.

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Forgive me if this has been done and dusted long ago (232 pages is a lot to go though), but doesn't anyone else feel that

1. the shape of the Tor is remarkably like a relatively conventional, but I would say Heatherington-esque, cauldron bowl, upside down.

2. the Tor is too substantial and significant a prop not to have a more exciting purpose than be a stand for a tree or a place for people to perform.

So my though is that as part of the performance the Tor is inverted and transfomed into the cauldron bowl, and then sits on top of something, or is conceivably suspended. (I don't buy the argument that suspension is too dangerous - the whole darn upper part of the stadium relies on cables under tension).

Separately, I do buy Bronze's argument that the flame apparent in the video clip is far more likely to be in the centre of the stadium than anywhere else, unless there is reason to believe the camera in question was deliberately positioned to give that effect.

A permanent flame over centre of stadium does seem unlikely though, so I'm guessing the flame in the video is in a temporary location - but that might mean it moves immediately, or possibly even after the ceremony (which I don't think we'd like, would we?)

But, indeed, not long to wait now.....

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Well, apart from possible lack of safety, how would they bring the cauldron up the cables during the show? For the Olympic rings segment it has to not to be there as it seemsthere will be aerial footage of the rings. Perhaps baron is right with his centre-hole-theory, though i'm wondering how it could rise through the cables then.

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So, after putting all the evidence from this site together.... we can deduce some more.... (these pictures that have already bee posted, I'm just reposting)......

Original flame location from video:

anddi0.jpg

Here is the screen cap of the Fisheye webcam showing a flame:

i26q0k.jpg

Here is the daylight view from the webcam, showing the Orbit is on the opposite side:

sq1jx1.png

Here is what I have discovered:

28im1q0.png

This is assuming that everthing posted has been correct!

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The whole idea of the flame hovering in the centre keeps reminding me of the 'unused cloud' which I saw during the rehearsal.

The cloud was sitting on the roof above the tree during the show and was not used when the other 4 big clouds were being walked round for the countryside scene.

The cloud was moved however when the 'British Music/Dancing' scene started and was placed above this stupid house thing they built but didn't have any use.

It's just a thought and I hope the flame isn't sitting on the cloud was that would be cheap and a bit crap.

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Right, had a look through my photos and here are a couple for you lot.

Firstly give you my 'mystery cloud'

29qh84w.jpg

Secondly, you may all find this more interesting. I took a photo of the wires so take a look and see what you think of the floating cauldron idea after seeing this.

25iapmu.jpg

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Now that we have seen, across Olympic Park, the distant video and still images of the Cauldron being tested in the early hours of Friday morning London time, this finally puts to rest that earlier incorrect and alleged ATR report written by an "unknown" person wrongly alleging a senior and widely respected IOC Member had released information about the Cauldron, including that it would only be "seen by those inside the Stadium."

Why do you insist that the article was written by some "unknown" entity? Just because it doesn't have a by-line doesn't mean it has no author; it's author is the staff of ATR, and it directly quotes Oswald. ATR still stands to lose reputation, prestige, and access if it fabricated the quote.

That said, I have viewed the video repeatedly and I have no other explanation for the ball of light in the middle of the stadium other than: it's the cauldron.

Now, even if the cauldron is, in fact, visible from outside the stadium (as it now appears it will be), I still don't think the ATR article was false. Instead, it appears that Oswald was simply lying - or, to state it a little more gently, he was employing a bit of old-fashioned misdirection to throw off obsessives like ourselves. :) That's why he leaked it to a trade publication and not the BBC, for example, where it would get more play. His reputation needn't be tarnished, in any event; sometimes a bit of obfuscation is necessary to keep a secret as big and important as this.

Couple of other comments:

1) It has been well-reported that Daniel Craig as Bond will be descending from a helicopter into the stadium, right? If so, there will need to be a (temporary) gap in the wires above the stadium large enough to make that feasible. Perhaps a large section of the wires can be moved off to the side temporarily?

2) As many have noted, it appears from the video that the cauldron will be lit in its final position, and that final position is somewhere above the roof level. This means either: a) the cauldron will be lit by someone standing on the roof; or (B) it will be lit from a distance. I think, given the hype surrounding the "method" of lighting, it is unlikely that the method will just be the final torchbearer dipping the torch into the cauldron while standing next to it. Instead, the cauldron will be lit from a distance, perhaps from the floor of the stadium. [Wild speculation: Perhaps using missiles/rockets or a javelin.]

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I have been lurking for what seems like the last 100 pages, but I think I have something that might affect the discussion--this Yahoo! Sports article about how Roger Bannister has suddenly become the favorite in British betting to light the cauldron. The important thing here is NOT Bannister himself (it could still be someone else), but the story as to HOW he became the favorite; evidently #savethesurprise does NOT apply at William Hill or Ladbrokes :P :

The reason behind the flood of money wagered on Bannister is believed to stem from the two full rehearsals for the Opening Ceremony that have taken place this week.

Even though the dry runs did not reveal the identity of the torch bearer, witnesses told how the occasion seemed to be set up to accommodate a track athlete and possibly an older figure. Event organizer Danny Boyle has pleaded with the volunteers and crowds who watched the rehearsal to "save the surprise" – even setting up a Twitter petition based around that theme. Some though, could clearly not resist trying to profit from the experience.

"I am not going to place a bet but it did look like it was set up for a runner from the past," said one Olympic volunteer. "When you try to imagine which famous figure would fit best into the way the Ceremony was conducted, Bannister was the obvious one to come to mind."

That suggests the cauldron will be lit on the stadium floor, at a low enough level where an older track athlete (maybe Bannister, maybe someone else) could easily light it. Together with what's been posted here today (including the new cable picture which pretty much nixes the center of the stadium), I suspect it'll be raised from the edge of the field to the "most logical position"; it may OR may not be the "mystery cloud".
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That suggests the cauldron will be lit on the stadium floor, at a low enough level where an older track athlete (maybe Bannister, maybe someone else) could easily light it. Together with what's been posted here today (including the new cable picture which pretty much nixes the center of the stadium), I suspect it'll be raised from the edge of the field to the "most logical position"; it may OR may not be the "mystery cloud".

An anonymous Wikipedia user edited Bannister's page to say he was chosen to light the cauldron. It has since been removed. :)

If Bannister is to light it on the stadium floor, how can one explain the cauldron rehearsal video in which it appears to be lit in its final position above the roof line?

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Is that even a flame? I don't see one there.

Good point...thats why I stated if everything is true..... I did not originally post that picture....someone posted that picture around the time the video was released and said they saw something flickering there on the webcam

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Right, had a look through my photos and here are a couple for you lot.

Firstly give you my 'mystery cloud'

29qh84w.jpg

Mystery cloud? Wasn't it used in Green/Pleasant, & after its use there, the 3 clouds just get parked to the side? (It could be hiding a very lightweight cauldron...but how do you clear it from all that "cloud material" (whatever that cotton-candy material is)...and they have to put that whole thing together again this morning? The clouds have nothing directly to do with a cauldron.

Actually, this whole Opening Ceremony is really just a digital production. It does NOT exist.

Hole-in-the-ground. It's been there since April.

Actually, what's that little white cubicle to the right of it (of the picture I mean)? Why is it all covered up?

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Mystery cloud? Wasn't it used in Green/Pleasant, & after its use there, the 3 clouds just get parked to the side? (It could be hiding a very lightweight cauldron...but how do you clear it from all that "cloud material" (whatever that cotton-candy material is)...and they have to put that whole thing together again this morning? The clouds have nothing directly to do with a cauldron.

Actually, this whole Opening Ceremony is really just a digital production. It does NOT exist.

Hole-in-the-ground. It's been there since April.

That cloud does to appear to have more of a rectangular shape than the others.......

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That is not correct. Since the camera is at the same direct line of sight level as the Stadium roof top, we dont know where it is at roof top level except that it is horizontally in a central postion as we look at the stadium

----> but that does not mean it is actually sitting above the arena somehow suspended on wires.

The assumption that it must be in the middle of the stadium is not correct.

It could be on this side of the stadium roof edge or the other side.

According to the BBC the roof isn't metal, it's fabric like the the BC Place in Vancouver was during the games, so the Idea of a suspended cauldron is not too far fetched...

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In past Olympics, has the cauldron design, location and the person lighting it ever been such a mystery?

I think the Sydney cauldron was a secret but did people guess Kathy Freeman?

The cauldron lighter is usually a secret till the OC itself, though IIRC some did guess Cathy Freeman. OTOH, I don't recall the cauldron design AND location being THIS secret before, not even at Sydney (the location was known, but not the design) or Beijing (the design was leaked a few days before).

As far as the ATR article, I think my suggestion explains it: The lighting itself will be well within the stadium, as ATR reported; but the cauldron will then move to the stadium rim. But then it's not the first time OC organizers have lied about the cauldron lighting; I recall newspaper articles in 1996 suggesting the lighter would run thru a skybridge from the Atlanta stadium up a stairway inside the cauldron tower, but we all know now that's NOT how Muhammad Ali did it. ;)

(@tractarian: Just to clarify, I did NOT use Wikipedia in my research; as I said it may OR may not be Bannister. I used only the linked article, which suggested guesses from OC volunteers as the reason WHY Bannister went from 23:1 odds to being pulled from the boards at 1:1. Those guesses could also have inspired the Wikipedia edit--or not.)

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According to the BBC the roof isn't metal, it's fabric like the the BC Place in Vancouver was during the games, so the Idea of a suspended cauldron is not too far fetched...

Your comment doesn't make sense. It is fabric...but that is why Vancouver had a cauldron/brazier coming out of the ground...NOT suspended on/from the roof. And then you're saying because it is fabric, the chances are higher that a burning cauldron would appear here in London, suspended? Huh? :blink:

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As far as the ATR article, I think my suggestion explains it: The lighting itself will be well within the stadium, as ATR reported; but the cauldron will then move to the stadium rim. But then it's not the first time OC organizers have lied about the cauldron lighting; I recall newspaper articles in 1996 suggesting the lighter would run thru a skybridge from the Atlanta stadium up a stairway inside the cauldron tower, but we all know now that's NOT how Muhammad Ali did it. ;)

That wouldn't completely jibe with the quote. The article states: "

IOC coordination commission chair Denis Oswald tells

ATR

there definitely is a cauldron, but confirms it will only be visible within the Olympic Stadium." (My emphasis.) So even if it were lit in the stadium, then moved to a place visible outside the stadium, Oswald would still be lying. But, as you note, that would not be unprecedented; nor would it be terribly surprising.

Just to clarify, I did NOT use Wikipedia in my research; as I said it may OR may not be Bannister.

I did not intend to imply that you did.

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Your comment doesn't make sense. It is fabric...but that is why Vancouver had a cauldron/brazier coming out of the ground...NOT suspended on/from the roof. And then you're saying because it is fabric, the chances are higher that a burning cauldron would appear here in London, suspended? Huh? :blink:

The covering of the roof has nothing to do with the structure it self..... Chicago is trying yo say thay since the roof is fabric, you cannot "sit/mount" the cauldron on the roof. Just because the covering on the roof is fabric, does not mean you cannot suspend a cauldron from wires attached to the roof structure.... just sayin

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