Jump to content

London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


Recommended Posts

What will happen to the cauldron? What form and under what mechanism will turn on? Last Friday I interviewed its designer, Thomas Heatherwick, under the condition that the design is confidential and nothing could be said further. Still, from his words I was able to caught up with three conclusions: first, that will be spectacular, futuristic; second, that is fully integrated into the ceremony directed by Danny Boyle; and third, which is something bold, Heatherwick explained that it sought permission from the British Prime Minister, David Cameron, to allow the cauldron to be lit. For now, the cauldron has been built at a secret location in northern England, where he has also already passed tests.

Alberto Lati

13 June 2012

The security thing is major but I don't understand how it links to anything in this thread, The idea London 2012 had to get the PMs permission for the cauldron still isn't something I believe to be true; - I still think people are getting muddled with the fact that Boyle asked the government for more money for the show. So I think your conclusion is based on a flimsy premise anyhow because, in short I don't believe they would normally NEED to get the PM's permission for the cauldron.

Hi Rob

I guess you haven't yet read the above translation (posted 3-4 pages ago) of the 13 June interview of Thomas Heatherwick by Alberto Lati in which the Cauldron designer said that permission from Prime MInister David Cameron himself was obtained for the lighting of the Cauldron.

I've re-posted an extract from that interview above.

This now implies that Friday's lighting method is probably going to be quite unique and unconventional to what we have ever seen before in Opening Ceremonies, perhaps infringing on some national laws.

(the additional funding for the Opening Ceremony is a separate issue).

Since this topic resurfaced in the last 24 hours, there has been several pages of discussion generated around this topic.

Edited by AustralianFan
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 3.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

we know for definite that the orbit can not be the cauldron, because there is a different design team involved

anish kapoor and cecil balmond designed the orbit

and thomas heatherwick for the cauldron.

http://www.dezeen.com/2012/06/15/movie-thomas-heatherwick-on-his-top-secret-design-for-the-olympic-cauldron/

in the above link, thomas says that the cauldron will be at the VIctoria & Albert Museum at 9am on 27/07/12 - well not the actual one, but a model of it!

What's that thing above the yellow lights???

i think it's a reflection of the man's head in the glass behind him.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just been watching the BBC news which has started coming from their studios in the olympic park from today. The stadium is behind and I have to say I looked carefully but could not see anything at all cauldron related! All looked exactly the same.

Dont know if it would be from the right angle though, the Orbit is directly between the stadium and the studios so may be the wrong angle to see anything anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

we know for definite that the orbit can not be the cauldron, because there is a different design team involved

anish kapoor and cecil balmond designed the orbit

and thomas heatherwick for the cauldron.

While there are several possibilities for the Cauldron's home, the Orbit Tower cannot be ruled out completely yet as we simply do not know what collaboration and co-operation has taken place behind the scenes between the various players, designers, engineers, etc.

With this latest news from the Thomas Heatherwick interview posted here in the last 24 hours of Prime Minister David Cameron having given his approval, then can we expect something perhaps quite amazing and stunning on Friday night, unlike any Cauldron lighting we have seen before ?

Edited by AustralianFan
Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching BBC World at the moment...a practise ceremony is underway...looks good but no sign of a cauldron...Like everyone else out there I think the Orbit will have something to do with it. (the IOC did say years ago that they don't want sillyness and oneupmanship - which nealy came undone in Sydney)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The behind-the-scenes story of London 2012 will come out in good time but I strongly suspect that the Cauldron design and approval, and the Cauldron lighting design and approval process has gone like clockwork - the way it was planned to.

I cannot imagine that approval of this will have been forgotten or a last minute rush thing.

Agree very much.

I didn't say there was a breach in security.

There was a shortfall of THOUSANDS of personnel that was only discovered a few weeks before the Games. Yes, they've called in the troops and the situation has been dealt with. The point is that it never should have been an issue in the first place. The security firm should've notified LOCOG and the government months ago -- as soon as they began to suspect a shortfall. Barring that, LOCOG and the government should've been monitoring the situation much more closely and should've discovered the shortfall themselves long ago.

These are serious operational deficiencies. There is simply no other way to describe it.

If this can happen with something as major as thousands of security personnel, then they can certainly fail to get the PMs approval for a cauldron until 45 days before the Games. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not even saying they shpuld have had the PMs permission earlier because I don't know the specifics. I'm saying that a delay in going through official channels seems totally plausible considering recent events.

There is a simple and clear explanation for this shortage of security personnel. All qualified individuals instead preferred to volunteer and perform with Ceremonies--any of the 4...or even the Medal ceremonies!! :lol: Imagine the 35,000 applications for the Ceremonies positions. Why, all of that would've fulfilled the security personnel needs. But no...everybody wants to perform!! B) Everyone is such a ham!! :ph34r:

And Doha and Baku have the nerve to try and bid for an Olympics???

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just seen some latest pictures, theres something being buil to the South of the stadium near the orbit! Any ideas?

Not sure but is that the tower outside the Ikea store? Anyone know?

(or has the Ikea tower already been constructed?

Link to post
Share on other sites

What you say is true but LOCOG trusted G4S with the security and it was G4Ss fault not LOCOGs, they simply let them down and now it has been fixed, everything else is going to plan I'm sure. Just because there is one problem doesn't mean the whole thing is going to pot. If G4S were in control then I'd be making suggestions that other areas may be experiencing problems, but they're not...

Yes. G4S screwed up -- big time. But oversight in these matters is absolutely essential. Did LOCOG and the government basically take a hands-off approach and say "we've signed a contract. We're sure you'll deliver. You need nothing from us"? It sounds like it. That's totally inappropriate for something of this magnitude.

Somebody from LOCOG and the government should've been in regular contact with G4S and should've been monitoring the situation all along.

The cauldron approval SHOULDN'T have been a rush job (and maybe it wasn't), but the government shouldn't have had to call in the troops a few weeks before the Games either. Neither of those things should ever happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The security thing is major but I don't understand how it links to anything in this thread, The idea London 2012 had to get the PMs permission for the cauldron still isn't something I believe to be true; - I still think people are getting muddled with the fact that Boyle asked the government for more money for the show. So I think your conclusion is based on a flimsy premise anyhow because, in short I don't believe they would normally NEED to get the PM's permission for the cauldron.

Baron said it was impossible that LOCOG got the PMs permission a mere 45 days ago. He questioned the timeline and the veracity of the story.

AustraliaFan had already brought up the security issue in a brief mention. I explained how the security problems proved that serious delays in going through official channels are clearly possible and therefore the "45 days" is not inconceivable. That's how it relates.

I am NOT saying "everything is going to pot."

While there are several possibilities for the Cauldron's home, the Orbit Tower cannot be ruled out completely yet as we simply do not know what collaboration and co-operation has taken place behind the scenes between the various players, designers, engineers, etc.

With this latest news from the Thomas Heatherwick interview posted here in the last 24 hours of Prime Minister David Cameron having given his approval, then can we expect something perhaps quite amazing and stunning on Friday night, unlike any Cauldron lighting we have seen before ?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone!

I've finally joined the conversation after a long time reading everyone's thoughts! But as a Brit, it makes me feel very happy that even this one part of the ceremony is generating so much excitement!

Firstly, a question- early on in this thread someone posted a link to this:

http://planning.london2012.com/upload/publicaccessODAlive/OLY-OLF-APP-DWG-PDZ3-SSU-PAR-001%20%282268%29.pdf

This seems to show an area where the cauldron could be- is this now obsolete? (Apologies if it's been covered earlier in the thread, I've not had time to read every page! :P )

I know a lot of people think the torch could be on top of the Orbit Tower- personally I'm not convinced, although wouldn't it be a fantastic moment if they surprise us all?

A couple of pages back someone posted a picture of a tower outside an Ikea? Can anyone explain what this is? :unsure:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Baron said it was impossible that LOCOG got the PMs permission a mere 45 days ago. He questioned the timeline and the veracity of the story.

AustraliaFan had already brought up the security issue in a brief mention. I explained how the security problems proved that serious delays in going through official channels are clearly possible and therefore the "45 days" is not inconceivable. That's how it relates.

I am NOT saying "everything is going to pot."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys, you totally got wrong what was said in the Mexican interview with Thomas Heatherwick respectively in Mexico68's post.

Mexico68 only said that coincidentally, David Cameron was visiting Mexico at the time when that Mexican journalist interviewed Heatherwick. That doesn't mean that Heatherwick had to travel to Mexico to meet Cameron and to ask him for his permission. Why should a Briton have to travel to a country thousands of miles away just to meet his Prime Minister and ask him? That makes no sense.

And Heatherwick didn't actually mention a date when he (or Boyle or LOCOG) asked Cameron for his permission. So that could have been already in 2011, the year when Heatherwick was appointed the designer of the cauldron.

I suppose that it's getting a bit too much for us all. We are now starting to rack our brains about things that have never been said. ;)

P.S. Here's Mexico68's original quote:

PS He clearly states that Heatherwick himself told him that it was the lighting method that required an auth from the PM, whom, by the way, at that time, was visiting Mexico. Orbit fans, read the article carefully.

"at that time" refers to the time of the interview, not the time of Cameron's authorisation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just seen some latest pictures, theres something being buil to the South of the stadium near the orbit! Any ideas?

image-6-for-olympics-weather-gallery-766004397.jpg

Not quite sure what you mean by 'south' here, given that this photo is taken from the North West of the stadium. If you're referring to the tower to the left of the picture, that's a long-under-construction residential block.

Firstly, a question- early on in this thread someone posted a link to this:

http://planning.lond...0%282268%29.pdf

This seems to show an area where the cauldron could be- is this now obsolete? (Apologies if it's been covered earlier in the thread, I've not had time to read every page! :P )

A couple of pages back someone posted a picture of a tower outside an Ikea? Can anyone explain what this is? :unsure:

Welcome thepianoman!

I think you'll find different opinions about the planning application. In my opinion it's a no-brainer that this is where the cauldron will stand, but I'm very ready to be proved wrong. (Although not on the Orbit thank you.)

The Ikea tower marks the site of a big residential/commercial development in Stratford, and is not directly linked with the Olympics. (Apologies for linking to the Mail.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was addressing Baron's point of view. Not the article. If you read my earlier posts I explain that I'm not at all convinced Baron's interpretation is what happened. I also said I wasn't convinced that LOCOG was even tardy in getting the PMs approval.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris Hoy has been nominated to carry the British flag in the Opening Ceremony, which surprised me a little - I had him marked as a potential cauldron lighter.

Regarding how it may be lit, I half expect something astonishing and aerial (which might require governmental permission) but I've been monitoring the NOTAMS for London City airport and there's nothing particularly notable here. (NOTAMs are safety bulletins for aerodromes.) This:

H3511/12 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QWELW/IV/BO /AW/000/015/5133N00001W002
A) EGLC  1207211900 C) 1207272359
D) 1900-2359
E) MULTIPLE AERIAL ACTIVITIES WI AREA BOUNDED BY 513432N 0000341W
513422N 0000119E  513213N 0000120E  513147N 0000052W  513225N
0000246W  513432N 0000341W. INCLUDING FIREWORK DISPLAYS UP TO 800FT
AGL AND INTENSE HELICOPTER ACTIVITY (STRATFORD)
12-07-0619/0621/0114/0119/AS 6
F) SFC G) 1500FT AMSL
CREATED: 18 Jul 2012 20:42:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Means that there will be lots of aerial activity in the Olympic Park area until midnight on the 27th (although expect this to be extended), but nothing about 1,500' and no fireworks above 800'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If this can happen with something as major as thousands of security personnel, then they can certainly fail to get the PMs approval for a cauldron until 45 days before the Games. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not even saying they should have had the PMs permission earlier because I don't know the specifics. I'm saying that a delay in going through official channels seems totally plausible considering recent events.

See above.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you'll find different opinions about the planning application. In my opinion it's a no-brainer that this is where the cauldron will stand, but I'm very ready to be proved wrong. (Although not on the Orbit thank you.)

The Ikea tower marks the site of a big residential/commercial development in Stratford, and is not directly linked with the Olympics. (Apologies for linking to the Mail.)

Thanks kinetic! Surely if there's been no other planning applications, this is surely the cauldron's location? Is that area where the Orbit currently stands?

Chris Hoy has been nominated to carry the British flag in the Opening Ceremony, which surprised me a little - I had him marked as a potential cauldron lighter.

Regarding how it may be lit, I half expect something astonishing and aerial (which might require governmental permission) but I've been monitoring the NOTAMS for London City airport and there's nothing particularly notable here. (NOTAMs are safety bulletins for aerodromes.) This:

H3511/12 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QWELW/IV/BO /AW/000/015/5133N00001W002
A) EGLC  1207211900 C) 1207272359
D) 1900-2359
E) MULTIPLE AERIAL ACTIVITIES WI AREA BOUNDED BY 513432N 0000341W
513422N 0000119E  513213N 0000120E  513147N 0000052W  513225N
0000246W  513432N 0000341W. INCLUDING FIREWORK DISPLAYS UP TO 800FT
AGL AND INTENSE HELICOPTER ACTIVITY (STRATFORD)
12-07-0619/0621/0114/0119/AS 6
F) SFC G) 1500FT AMSL
CREATED: 18 Jul 2012 20:42:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Means that there will be lots of aerial activity in the Olympic Park area until midnight on the 27th (although expect this to be extended), but nothing about 1,500' and no fireworks above 800'.

I'd imagine that the "intense helicopter activity" is probably TV related i.e. aerial shots of the stadium and surrounding area during the opening ceremony?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks kinetic! Surely if there's been no other planning applications, this is surely the cauldron's location? Is that area where the Orbit currently stands?

Nope, the Orbit to the south-east of the stadium. Without being overly self-referential, I've explained why I think it's not the Orbit here and here.

I'd imagine that the "intense helicopter activity" is probably TV related i.e. aerial shots of the stadium and surrounding area during the opening ceremony?

I've been told that in the peak period in London, there will be five OBS aircraft in the air (e.g. triathlon and marathon events).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. G4S screwed up -- big time. But oversight in these matters is absolutely essential. Did LOCOG and the government basically take a hands-off approach and say "we've signed a contract. We're sure you'll deliver. You need nothing from us"? It sounds like it. That's totally inappropriate for something of this magnitude.

Somebody from LOCOG and the government should've been in regular contact with G4S and should've been monitoring the situation all along.

The cauldron approval SHOULDN'T have been a rush job (and maybe it wasn't), but the government shouldn't have had to call in the troops a few weeks before the Games either. Neither of those things should ever happen.

I'm sure the cauldron lighting was imagined by heatherwick a year ago when it was announced he was designing the cauldron, I think there probably has been no change to the original proposal by the government.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure the cauldron lighting was imagined by heatherwick a year ago when it was announced he was designing the cauldron, I think there probably has been no change to the original proposal by the government.

To be quite frank I have no idea of what's going to be the design of the cauldron, where it is, who's going to light it or how its going to be lit, I'm starting to ponder whether to just wait for the opening ceremony as I think nothing is going to be leaked even though we're so close to the start of what will be the greatest Olympics ever (even better than Sydney's!!!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that if the information reported in the Heatherwick interview is correct (?) (about the PM's special permission being given for the lighting method) is currently covered by law, then that legislation must in itself give the Prime Minister of the day discretionary powers for one-off infringements of those laws, eg it is in the national interest ---> ie the safe lighting of the Cauldron.

So what sort of 'national laws' would apply here?

National airspace Laws above the City, Olympic Park and /or the Stadium ?

National Heritage or Landmark Laws ?

National Security or Dangerous Goods Regulations regarding transportation and ignition of combustible materials in public spaces, etc ?

The possibilities are endless. But I would like to know how accurate that Heatherwick interview that Mexico68 kindly posted earlier today :) .

Any volunteers to translate from Spanish ?

Knowing London you probably need permission from the Prime Minister just to light a naked flame in an urban park after 10.30pm. Is it possible though that the talk of his "permission" is just him upping the ceremonies budget to enable them to do it?

Just been watching the BBC news which has started coming from their studios in the olympic park from today. The stadium is behind and I have to say I looked carefully but could not see anything at all cauldron related! All looked exactly the same.

Dont know if it would be from the right angle though, the Orbit is directly between the stadium and the studios so may be the wrong angle to see anything anyway.

I really hope it isn't the Orbit but with most broadcasters now in place you have to think all will ultimately have the cauldron in full view once it's lit as that after all is the money shot, not the tower of junk.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...