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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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Been reading this thread for a while so thought I'd chip in...

Right, so this evening (Monday) I'm off to see the opening ceremony rehearsal.

Obviously I won't be saying what happens during the show but I'll keep a look out for anything that looks like a cauldron.

-A side note, why are you all so quick to rule out the Obrit? When it was announced - the organisers said they wanted it to become London's answer to the Eiffel tower. What better way for it to become iconic (and known globally) than have the flame from the top of it?

Because it was already confirmed some months ago by LOGOC that the Orbit will not host the cauldron.

Hi Paul and welcome

I would check all the suspect spots while you are there including the Orbit. Hope you enjoy the rehearsal, half your luck to be there and experience it ! :)

Others in this thread might have better info but my recollection was not a denial from LOCOG. So to other Olympic fans who contribute to this thread, please please correct me if I have this inaccurate or if someone can actually recount an actual denial from LOCOG itself. I am an ex-policeman so thats why I am like a dog with a bone and go only on the evidence available.

My recollection was that it was the Olympic Park Legacy Director (or similar title?) who, a few weeks or months ago, answered a reporter's question with a question when asked about gas-lines installed in the Orbit Tower:

"Don't you think I would know if there were gas-lines installed in the Orbit Tower?"

So if the above answer is what the anti-Orbit case is being pinned on then, unemotionally, it is a very flimsy case indeed - if we are looking at irrefutable evidence.

Answering a question with a question is not a denial, but a technique to evade the truth. Politicians are well drilled in doing this - evading the truth by throwing a question back to avoid directly answering it.

So i say again, if someone has something more concrete or more accurate than this, eg an actual denial from LOCOG, please please come forward and correct me and I will happily cross the Orbit off my suspect list of 2.

I have from the beginning of joining this thread simply be going on the evidence in front of us, and I do not have any emotional or design attachment to any location for the Cauldron, the orbit tower or to my other 'suspect' a separate external tower structure.

I actually think the Orbit is very much a 'roughie' in betting terms and my favourite is an external tower structure. But I'll take a bet each way on both as I'm a once a year punter.

So to those against the Orbit as a possible location, take a deep breath, I'm on your side, an Olympic fan in that we are all trying to find a location for the Cauldron.

I am not wedded to the Orbit as either a design, a tower, a sculpture or as a Cauldron location, never have been. Perhaps it will grow on me, I don't know. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. I don't whether I like it or not except to say that it looks better at night all glammed in lights.

On one final point, and please again correct me if I am wrong again, but I didn't think that Olympic Organising Committees were in the business of falling for the trap of denying when asked by reporters about Cauldron locations, because if they were to start that game, then it actually helps the reporters to whittle down their own shortlists of possible Cauldron locations. That just my general impression anyway and I have no evidence that this actually happens in reality.

Regards to all

Philip :)

Edited by AustralianFan
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What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

Everyone, I agree, LOCOG has got us all, not because they are smarter, but because they are bigger Olympic dorks than us. 7 years ago they gave extremely valuable seats to schoolchildren, they have defined whatever norms before them, From logo to stadium design these will be unique games, London has raised the bar above Beijing, not by sheer number but by uniqueness, i will everyday read and view trying to predict what has been set. I have and have and great hopes for London 2012. Here we go all!!!! Keep guessing, keep predicting and for all of our sake, give us a clue London.......

i'm with you... ;)

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Are the media really ever considered about cauldrons and their location or how they're going to be lit?

You always get your op-ed pieces run on host cites' local papers speculating about who may be the one to light the cauldron or about the ceremony in general, but I've never seen a story speculating about the cauldron itself.

Any examples for London's (or any previous host for that matter)?

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Are the media really ever considered about cauldrons and their location or how they're going to be lit?

You always get your op-ed pieces run on host cites' local papers speculating about who may be the one to light the cauldron or about the ceremony in general, but I've never seen a story speculating about the cauldron itself.

Any examples for London's (or any previous host for that matter)?

Sydney certainly did - and had journos casing the Olympic Park in the final weeks to see if they could snap any clues.

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*concerned, not considered

Sydney certainly did - and had journos casing the Olympic Park in the final weeks to see if they could snap any clues.

Ahh ok. I imagine that one was a bit of a mystery too for some time.

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Just throwing my two cents in......

I do not believe it is the orbit, but if it was the orbit, why would the LOGOC admit it? They wouldnt expose the location before the OC! They could just be deterring people from the obvious.... just food for thought.

No. They just wouldn't confirm or deny it. Denying it and then it turning out to be there, would be tantamount to "lying" or misrepresentation. But if it has been officially denied; then we should take it at that.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Answering a question with a question is not a denial, but a technique to evade the truth. Politicians are well drilled in doing this - evading the truth by throwing a question back to avoid directly answering it.

So i say again, if someone has something more concrete or more accurate than this, eg an actual denial from LOCOG, please please come forward and correct me and I will happily cross the Orbit off my suspect list of 2.

So to those against the Orbit as a possible location, take a deep breath, I'm on your side, an Olympic fan in that we are all trying to find a location for the Cauldron.

I am not wedded to the Orbit as either a design, a tower, a sculpture or as a Cauldron location, never have been. Perhaps it will grow on me, I don't know. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. I don't whether I like it or not except to say that it looks better at night all glammed in lights.

On one final point, and please again correct me if I am wrong again, but I didn't think that Olympic Organising Committees were in the business of falling for the trap of denying when asked by reporters about Cauldron locations, because if they were to start that game, then it actually helps the reporters to whittle down their own shortlists of possible Cauldron locations. That just my general impression anyway and I have no evidence that this actually happens in reality.

No. They just wouldn't confirm or deny it. Denying it and then it turning out to be there, would be tantamount to "lying" or misrepresentation. But if it has been officially denied; then we should take it at that.

LOCOG have not denied or confirmed any location for the Cauldron

(have they ?)

The Legacy Director of Olympic Park was evasive in answering a question with a question: "Wouldn't I know if gas-lines were installed in the Orbit?"

As said in my earlier post today, I am more than happy to cross off the Orbit off my shortlist of two if someone has a concrete denial from LOCOG itself saying it is not on the Orbit.

But I don't think anyone in LOCOG would ever deny or confirm anything about something so secretive. I wouldn't if I was them.

Edited by AustralianFan
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I have to admit, I'm ready to cash in my chips too and admit they got us. I have no clue where the cauldron will be and honestly, the revelation at this point might as well be a spoiler.

With that, I'm out. See you guys (and gals) Saturday morning after the American East Coast transmission of the OC is complete and we'll debrief then.

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Sydney certainly did - and had journos casing the Olympic Park in the final weeks to see if they could snap any clues.

I'll have to find a picture of me on the Stadium Australia pitch about three weeks out from the opening ceremony. Where the stage was to be eventually was all covered, but so too was the area where the fountain/tracks leading up to the top were. If I were to do it now...I'd have guessed the cauldron was there.

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For all of you doubting and making fun of what I wrote here before, here is the article in one of the world's oldest and most respected sport newspapers. Hope you all can read Spanish or at least Google it. http://www.oem.com.mx/esto/notas/n2578635.htm

Alberto Lati has been televisadeportes.com specialized envoy for the Olympics and World Cups. He has been in London for over a year and has one of the best dream jobs in the world. He is also dying to discover all the inner works of the ceremony and has talked to many more people from IOC and LOCOG than we can ever dream of.

You can keep track of his discoveries at twitter.com/albertolati or watch him on TDN or Canal de las Estrellas networks, available worldwide.

Hope I can bring another one here soon.

PS He clearly states that Heatherwick himself told him that it was the lighting method that required an auth from the PM, whom, by the way, at that time, was visiting Mexico. Orbit fans, read the article carefully.

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He clearly states that Heatherwick himself told him that it was the lighting method that required an auth from the PM, whom, by the way, at that time, was visiting Mexico. Orbit fans, read the article carefully.

Hi Mexico68 and thankyou for posting the link with the Heatherwick interview and the bit about the British PM's approval being required for the lighting.

I thought that was the case in earlier posts, but wasn't sure who had said that and when.

Are you able to translate the relevant paragraph in the interview at all?

(or can give tips on the keywords to use in the google search?)

Thanks :)

Edited by AustralianFan
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Now I'm more intrigued about the lighting method. What could the method possibly be that required special permission from the Prime Minister of all people?

He's the one with the British nuclear launch codes.

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Hi Mexico68 and thankyou for posting the link with the Heatherwick interview and the bit about the British PM's approval being required for the lighting.

I thought that was the case in earlier posts, but wasn't sure who had said that and when.

Are you able to translate the relevant paragraph in the interview at all?

(or can give tips on the keywords to use in the google search?)

Thanks :)

The Google translation of the relevant paragraph:

What will happen to the cauldron? What form and under what mechanism will turn on? Just last Friday I interviewed its designer, Thomas Heatherwick, on condition that the design is confidential and nothing that I could express. Still, his words caught up with three conclusions: first, that will be spectacular, futuristic, and second, which is fully integrated into the ceremony directed by Danny Boyle, and third, which is something bold, Heatherwick explained that it sought permission British Prime Minister, David Cameron, to make such a cauldron with such power. For now, the cauldron has been built at a secret location in northern England, where he has also already passed tests.

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The London Cauldron lighting will be B I G !!

Don't forget the other critcal clue to the London 2012 Cauldron posted earlier is that this might be the first Summer Olympics Opening Ceremony where the permission of the Prime Minister had to be obtained in order for the Caudron lighting to proceed.

That sounds to me like a Cauldron ignition that is big, high and/or very unconventional to what we have seen in the past and perhaps aerial related, something that might infringe the airspace regulations laws or other nationally significant government laws.

Now I'm more intrigued about the lighting method. What could the method possibly be that required special permission from the Prime Minister of all people?

I think that if the information reported in the Heatherwick interview is correct (?) (about the PM's special permission being given for the lighting method) is currently covered by law, then that legislation must in itself give the Prime Minister of the day discretionary powers for one-off infringements of those laws, eg it is in the national interest ---> ie the safe lighting of the Cauldron.

So what sort of 'national laws' would apply here?

National airspace Laws above the City, Olympic Park and /or the Stadium ?

National Heritage or Landmark Laws ?

National Security or Dangerous Goods Regulations regarding transportation and ignition of combustible materials in public spaces, etc ?

The possibilities are endless. But I would like to know how accurate that Heatherwick interview that Mexico68 kindly posted earlier today :) .

Any volunteers to translate from Spanish ?

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Are you able to translate the relevant paragraph in the interview at all?

(or can give tips on the keywords to use in the google search?)

I'll give it a try...

It basically says the caldron design is spectacular and futuristic and that the caldron lightning is integrated with the OC direction. It also says that Heatherwick has asked David Cameron's permission to use that particular kind of lightining and that the caldron was built in northern England where it has been through tests already.

Maybe they are not using gas pipe lines but other methods and that's what they need the PM permission for...

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And if the cauldron and method of lighting are so unusual, what does that mean for the identity of the lighter? If a satellite is going to zap the cauldon with a laser does poor old Roger Bannister have to go into outer space? Obviously that's a crazy example. I'm just trying to imagine how the traditional honored post of cauldron-lighter could work with a very unconventional method of lighting... Will be interesting to see. I really hope it WORKS. If its a dud that would be awful.....

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I'll give it a try...

It basically says the caldron design is spectacular and futuristic and that the caldron lightning is integrated with the OC direction. It also says that Heatherwick has asked David Cameron's permission to use that particular kind of lightining and that the caldron was built in northern England where it has been through tests already.

Maybe they are not using gas pipe lines but other methods and that's what they need the PM permission for...

Thanks for the translation Olympian.br

The PM's permission on the lighting method now does indeed put the London Cauldron in a whole new ball park.

Yes you're quite right, they could use another ignition source to light it and perhaps fuel it ongoing.

But gas is cheap, versatile (eg under water) and more stable if controlled safely so it will probably be gas that keeps the Cauldron going once it is lit.

How is it going to be lit though?? By laser, pyrotechnics, gasline, fuel lines? its all up for guesses at this stage, let alone where it actually is.

I better make sure my dvd player /recorder still records properly. For Beijing, it cut out just as Li Ning started rising up.

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lol Unless they are planning to use coal instead of gas as a fuel source to reflect the industrial days lol just kidding. still think we may be reading too much into the Prime Minister's approval but hey with nothing else to go on anything is possible.

I had thought the PMs role might have been exaggerated too, but then again we keep hearing about it....

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So, Heatherwick had to wait until David Cameron was in Mexico in early June, so like 45 days ago, for the G20 meeting in Los Cabos (or a concurrent state visit) to ask for his permission?? They couldn't have asked his office while the PM was still in London...like about a year ago or so?? And what if the PM had refused?

:blink:Tres, tres bizarre et incredbile!!

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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So, Heatherwick had to wait until David Cameron was in Mexico in May for the G20 meeting in Los Cabos (or a concurrent state visit) to ask for his permission?? They couldn't have asked his office while the PM was still in London...like about a year ago or so?? And what if the PM had refused?

:blink:Tres, tres bizarre et incredbile!!

1. maybe it was just accidental because the time......

2. a year ??? i think it will take very long time to design the cauldron so a year ago?? i don't think so

3. if the pm had refused? no cauldron of course!!! no until they had a safe design

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