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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

Well, technically, ancient Olympia had that honor; and Innsbruck in the modern era did it first - three 5-ting branded Games.

Really, Baron?

London is the first city named as host of three Games in the modern era. The Ancient Games were a totally different ball game and having rings does not a host-city make. Innsbruck has been the named host city of two winter Games.

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Really, Baron?

London is the first city named as host of three Games in the modern era. The Ancient Games were a totally different ball game and having rings does not a host-city make. Innsbruck has been the named host city of two winter Games.

Innsbruck also just hosted the 1st Youth Olympic Games, an IOC-certified Games. And the fact that:

- the Innsbruck mayor mentioned their 3x in his Welcome Speech with the IOC brass present right there; and

- they used 3 cauldrons AHEAD of London--and the IOC not stopping them,

makes them, to me...the FIRST Modern Era city to host 3 Olympic (Winter) Games. London is the 1st Summer 3-peater, but going by the calendar, Innsbruck beats them by a nose.

Actually, until the IOC and the Olympic historians rejigged the calendar, Athens (you would like that) is technically the first Summer 3-peater. Until about the mid-1980s, the 1906 Intercalated Games were always included in Olympic history books. However, because it had only half the IOC's blessing at the time, messed up the 4-year pattern of history, they decided to declassify those Games, even though many world records were broken for those Games. But it had all the trappings of a regular Olympic Games, plus a number of the IOC nabobs of the time were in attendance. So, technically, Athens could lay claim to being the first summer 3-peater in the complete spirit of the Olympic wor(l)d and ideals over London. (I think this footnote is very important historically.)

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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So here is the latest clue: a giant 6388x2821 panorama of the plaza to the north of the stadium taken yesterday, July 19, and posted to Flickr. Aside from a small fenced off area right where the entry to section 250 is, I see no hints. The "double pod" looks like a food stall. I'm totally stumped. But I figured I would post so others could speculate.

PS the park looks great!

7610408386_a4f56101df_o.jpg

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I don't think anyone in the world considers YOGs to be on a par with the Winter and Summer Games. Most of the world doesnt even know the YOGs exist. Norway is going for 2022 despite YOGs in Lillehammer. If they were really the same thing the Norwegians wouldnt do that.

Innsbruck doesn't qualify. They are not the three-time host of the Winter Olympics. They are the two-time host of Winter Games and host of one YOG.

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So here is the latest clue: a giant 6388x2821 panorama of the plaza to the north of the stadium taken yesterday, July 19, and posted to Flickr. Aside from a small fenced off area right where the entry to section 250 is, I see no hints. The "double pod" looks like a food stall. I'm totally stumped. But I figured I would post so others could speculate.

PS the park looks great!

7610408386_a4f56101df_o.jpg

Great pic.

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Ok to all those in London can you all start taking pictures of other areas of the city for clues? I know I know this is now the request of a desperate Olympics junkie but with no visible clues at the stadium I am starting to wonder about other possible locations where construction might be going on that we might have overlooked.

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Thats one ugly ticket.

That's one expensive ugly ticket!

Looking at that high resolution photo, two minor things of note (and agreed that the pods are all catering venues):

1. The walkway on the opposite bank, down by the river, will be accessible to Olympic Park visitors - note the ramp down, and the three recycling bins

2. The green bridge across to the other side of the river is fenced off, meaning it cannot be easily accessed

(And some of the props from the bike section are still there. Galling!)

307rn9x.jpg

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I didn't take this! It's from this person's photostream -- their photostream was mentioned in one of the other threads here or at skyscrapercity: http://www.flickr.com/photos/72987657@N00. But the only photo that was posted was the table tennis venue.

I would think the green bridge could be blocked off because it is fragile. I guess the area back there where the white plate was is fenced off...so that could be it.

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That fenced in area is suspicious simply because of where it is, but it's also rather small and it looks like nothing is really being built on top of it.

What's going on, London? Where is your cauldron going? I'm starting to think it'll fly into the site or something once it comes time to be lit. :blink:

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Rio is using the existing Maracana for their OC stadium. I have not heard anything about major renovations, certainly nothing close to the scale of Athens.

I know it's something which has surely been discussed before but still not happy about the Opening Ceremony and the athletics being in different stadiums - especially having watched the BBC's 50 Greatest Moments this week and so many of the athletics moments being in the shadow of the flame. Will there be a second at the athletics venue?

Actually bringing it back to London will there be smaller flames at "satellite" venues - I'm sure I've seen that in previous games.

It seems an unwritten 'tradition' to re-light the previous Cauldron if you have hosted a Games before.

eg Los Angeles, Innsbruck ( I couldn't find record of a Cauldron at the 1932 Lake Placid Games )

So while Thomas will have a new Cauldron for 2012, will they do it out of respect for the 1948 Games before the big one is lit?

Or could London get away with not re-lighting the 1948 Cauldron ?

Does the 1948 cauldron even still exist, and if so where is it. I can't say I've ever known of it to be lit in London during an Olympics (other than 1948 of course!)

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cheers to you londonbound for that flickr link -

we can't really see the 'famous' white plate - but on the same pic you crobbed i noticed

this fenced off area just next to the stadium > what is going on there?

picture1zdq.png

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cheers to you londonbound for that flickr link -

we can't really see the 'famous' white plate - but on the same pic you crobbed i noticed

this fenced off area just next to the stadium > what is going on there?

/\/\ Interesting. If that is a clue, then indeed the cauldron will be on the roof because they would be hooking up the gas lines there to snake it/them upwards.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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# 1550 Cauldron Lighter 20000 Club ~ It's NOT until the 3rd or 4th year (going by the normal pace of things) that they start signing up Ceremonies people. Look at Rio's case. Selected in 2009. It was only earlier this year that they signed Ric Birch & Marco Ballich to do their Ceremonies, and that is because Birch & Ballich can also put together the Handover segment of Brazil. The Stadium is being renovated; so they probably won't get tot he cauldron issue I'd say until next year. What Birch-Ballich & their Brazilian partners have to do for the next year is lay out the scenario & ground work for the Opening/Closing ceremonies; cost those out; and then present their ideas to the IOC. That's when they can start thinking of the cauldron-lighting scenario.

I hear what you say, but again it is chicken v egg. If there is a great cauldron/lighting idea don't you think that would impact on the initial plans? I do, for to take the view that you go well down the planning road and then have to limit your options, or even reject a wonderful idea, because it couldn't then be incorporated into the grand scheme of things just doesn't make sense. That view perhaps might hold water if nobody had any serious proposals about the cauldron/lighting. However, this is the hub of what I have been arguing......it is a really important part of the opening ceremony....it's the Games' most symbolic ritual and the host city wants to either outdo the previous city or, at the very least match it. So my view is that ideas would have been sought and considered at an early stage and if favoured would be incorporated into the construction/modfication proposals. It's a question to which we don't know the answer as regards London, but earlier blogs prove that you are wrong in the case of Sydney because the cauldron idea came right at the outset so that allowed Stadium Australia's construction to incorporate it. In any event this blog wouldn't be here if people didn't agree with how significant the Olympic flame/cauldron/lighting is.

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# 1550 Cauldron Lighter 20000 Club ~ It's NOT until the 3rd or 4th year (going by the normal pace of things) that they start signing up Ceremonies people. Look at Rio's case. Selected in 2009. It was only earlier this year that they signed Ric Birch & Marco Ballich to do their Ceremonies, and that is because Birch & Ballich can also put together the Handover segment of Brazil. The Stadium is being renovated; so they probably won't get tot he cauldron issue I'd say until next year. What Birch-Ballich & their Brazilian partners have to do for the next year is lay out the scenario & ground work for the Opening/Closing ceremonies; cost those out; and then present their ideas to the IOC. That's when they can start thinking of the cauldron-lighting scenario.

I hear what you say, but again it is chicken v egg. If there is a great cauldron/lighting idea don't you think that would impact on the initial plans? I do, for to take the view that you go well down the planning road and then have to limit your options, or even reject a wonderful idea, because it couldn't then be incorporated into the grand scheme of things just doesn't make sense. That view perhaps might hold water if nobody had any serious proposals about the cauldron/lighting. However, this is the hub of what I have been arguing......it is a really important part of the opening ceremony....it's the Games' most symbolic ritual and the host city wants to either outdo the previous city or, at the very least match it. So my view is that ideas would have been sought and considered at an early stage and if favoured would be incorporated into the construction/modfication proposals. It's a question to which we don't know the answer as regards London, but earlier blogs prove that you are wrong in the case of Sydney because the cauldron idea came right at the outset so that allowed Stadium Australia's construction to incorporate it. In any event this blog wouldn't be here if people didn't agree with how significant the Olympic flame/cauldron/lighting is.

OK, Paul...here's what u don't get. Yes, in a perfect world, there should be a PERFECT order of things. But it's NOT a perfect world we live in. ANd because of intellectual property rights, even if people send in their ideas 20 years before, the Organizing Committee/Ceremonies people really DON'T bother to look at UNSOLICITED suggestions. They dream up their own schemes; and they do so when they are HIRED. They are hired to do that, and they work with what's there. Sydney/Ric Birch was the exception because he was on board (as a member of their Board of Directors) from the very start. So, again, that is the rare exception.

If Japan or Spain wins 2020, and they have a showman on board, then they could conceivably incorporate a scheme early enough if that person had some CLOUT on their CODA (or whatever the Delivery Authoirty will be), since their Oly stadia will be undergoing major repairs. The fulcrum is who is in a position of power to influence the stadium design early on -- and whose scenario will be approved by like 30-50 members of the Board of Directors of Organizing Committees. Yes, they are THAT large, and they are not all showbiz people, so their dreaming up/conceptualizing of a 3-D scheme would not be their strong suit. Early major decisions for a COOG in its early formative stages usually require Board approval...which is why miniscule things as a cauldron scheme doesn't play into the picture until much later.

And they are NOT going to hold back a multi-year construction schedule of the main stadium just because of a cauldron problem. People can adapt to the situation. That's how it's been for some 80 years and there is NO COMPELLING reason to change it...other than just for show reasons.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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JackB, you can also display the posts you are referring to - by clicking the "Quote" button below that respective post. It would be a lot easier for us to read than if we have to go back through the pages and find the number of the post you are referring to.

Anyway: Londonbound, that picture is a fantastic find. It's especially remarkable because it shows so many different areas where we already guessed the cauldron would go. The little garden north of the stadium on the opposite side of the canal, the service pods, the roof, the Orbit... And none of them look as if a cauldron is constructed there. :D One could really despair of it. ;)

And yes, I wondered about the fenced area, too. But to me, it appears much too close to the stadium and too narrow to be some kind of cauldron foundation. And I also highly doubt, Baron, that they will hook up the gas pipes there and snake them upwards. That would be very unsafe -- especially in that area that is the immediate entry and exit area for the spectators. Not to mention the wrap. If the roof really is the cauldron location, I suppose that they have a far more solid gas pipe already installed in the stadium's girders for months or years.

On a side note: Today in my work as a journalist, I saw a picture by the German Press Agency dpa apparently showing tourists taking pictures near the canal on the opposite side of that "mysterious" concrete square. One couldn't see the square in that picture, but one could see that little old bridge near it -- you know, the one that already existed before the Olympic Park was remodelled. And the doors of the fence at its ends were opened, I believe that some tourists even walked on that bridge. I was amazed that they can get that close to the stadium already now. Anyway, nothing appeared as if they are building a cauldron there either.

So that probably rules out another one of our original guesses. The only possibility for a cauldron in that area would be my (vague) guess in the other thread, a barge carrying some sort of telescopic or erectable cauldron tower. But I don't really believe in that scenario either.

So, all in all, I'm still as clueless about the cauldron's location as seven years ago when London was awarded the Games. ;)

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Olympian - the Park is still closed to tourists. There are a lot of volunteers (cast and Gamesmakers) wandering around though as well as sponsors' tours etc.

Ah, thanks for the information! And good to see that you didn't let yourself be frightened off by Colonel Iredale. ;)

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