Jump to content

London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 3.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

Oh there's no argument. We know with 100% certainty that the Olympic Cauldron will not be at the top of the Orbit Tower. Some norty boy keeps bringing it up though.

No it won't be, but it's a POSSIBILITY and AustralianFan is looking at all the options.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally made it to the brilliant Heatherwick Studio exhibition at the V&A today - I would strongly encourage anyone interested in art or design to go along.

I enquired about the model of the Cauldron that will be we wheeled out following the Opening Ceremony. The lady there remained tight-lipped, but told me that she'd seen 'part of it', and that I must come back to see it because 'it's going to be beautiful'. Not a lot of clues to go on, but the Cauldron has at least her approval.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What seems obvious is that not too long after London's successful bid in 2005 people would have got round the table to discuss major 'Games' items. Among these would have included the manner of lighting the cauldron given the position from Barcelona onwards where increasingly different/novel methods have been employed. What nobody knows is whether a decision on this was made prior to the stadium design being finalised or not. Let's concede that it could be more difficult to design a retro cauldron/lighting later on and superimpose this on a stadium which could not be readily modified. Let's also recognise that the cauldron and its lighting method are increasingly seen as intrinsically linked. The days when someone designed a bowl and all that was required was for a flight of steps or an elevator to be added seem long gone. The announcement that Heatherwick was designing the cauldron (just the surround of the burner itself?) was made public in 2011..that does not mean his studio was not involved on this project long before that date.Surely his studio would have liaised with the stadium designers at an early stage if only to know what the means of supporting any cauldron would be. Given the nature of his many designs it seems barely credible that he would have agreed to design the 'bowl' if its means of support were in the hands of a third party which could massively detract from his own design. Keeping things secret are part of the modern games and it seems to me that some underground silo or compartment could have been incorporated into the stadium design early on. An alternative is for a prefabricated tower to be erected outside the stadium even during the evening of the ceremony: crane technology would allow for this.

Having said all this I realise these comments do not move things forward much if at all....I really think we are going to see something completely different this time in London both in terms of the cauldron and it's lighting. It's the most deeply symbolic moment of the opening ceremony and the Heatherwick studio will have been well aware of this. Looking at a portfolio of their many designs over the years you are struck by their flair and originality. Prepare yourself for a series of beautiful 'moments' on 27 July.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

welcome jack B. OK, this is the old chicken-or-the-egg conundrum insofar as doing a sensible stadium-cauldron scenario...

1. It's either the Sydney (probably the Egg way)...when Ceremonies maestro, Ric Birch, was on board right from the start. He had conceived Sydney's lighting even before Sydney won the Games (kept it close to his vest all during the bid process); and as soon as Sydney won, he worked with the stadium's architects so that his vision was incorporated into their plans. (Sochi's, it seems, might be following Sydney's m.o. because the original roof design was supposedly halted or replaced until they could think of a unique Lighting scheme. So it remains to be seen on Sochi.)

2. All the others (the Chicken way). Stadium came first. They did NOT work with any Ceremonies/production people previously to concieve a unique lighting; thus, everything, like London now, is post-facto.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say the decisions would be taken side by side - the cauldron lighting and position would certainly have been in mind in selecting the stadia, even if they didn't know then how it would happen.

Thanks AussieFan for all the pics - hadn't seen a few of the Winter ones especially. Is there any video online of the Lake Placid one - the only clip I've seen pretty much cuts straight from them lighting it to it hitting the top. Also had to laugh last night after recent discussions here when the BBC named Muhammad Ali lighting the flame in Atlanta 1996 as the greatest Olympic moment - but they sped up the clip so the lighting actually looked a lot more effective.

Back to Torino and the fireworks effect - I agree that was one lighting I didn't like as the flame appeared to make no contact with the cauldron. Athens did something similar for the 2004 Paralympics - and did it better IMO and in such a way they could possibly argue the flame did travel to the cauldron. I think Sydney used a similar technique for their Paralympics but I can't find the vid (Paralympic Cauldron lighting vids are almost non existent on Youtube!)

Maybe if London do something we've kind of seen before they might have perfected the comet approach with the flame seemingly of it's own free will reaching the cauldron. My gut instinct though is with the secrecy surely it can't be anything too risky - David Cameron's permission or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2. All the others (the Chicken thing). Stadium came first. They did NOT work with any Ceremonies/production people previously to concieve a unique lighting; thus, everything, like London now, is post-facto.

Not so sure about that. Beijing definitely had the lighting in mind. Do u all remember the original plans for the stadium during the bid process. It looked nothing like the plans they had after they won the bid and i am talking like the next day the stadium design changed. Cauldron fit so seamlessly with the architecture of the stadium and you have to add the branding with the scroll Idea with the torch which also fit with the paper theme of the ceremony. Personally I think Sydney changed the game with the whole designing a stadium for your cauldron. For Athens I believe it was too late in the planning phase for them to pick up on that. construction would have started on their stadium before they could take notes from sidney but Beijing definitely did and I bet 1 billion dollars so too did London.

From what I see I think we are going to see a seamlessly fluid opening ceremony with a Cauldron lighting that ties everything together. The fact that we still don't know where and how is a testament to the fact that this has been in the forks from the start seeing the foundation for whatever it is has already been in place.

Another point here is LOCOG knows they can't compete with Beijing on the size and scale of their ceremony but they sure can be innovative

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so sure about that. Beijing definitely had the lighting in mind. Do u all remember the original plans for the stadium during the bid process. It looked nothing like the plans they had after they won the bid and i am talking like the next day the stadium design changed. Cauldron fit so seamlessly with the architecture of the stadium and you have to add the branding with the scroll Idea with the torch which also fit with the paper theme of the ceremony. Personally I think Sydney changed the game with the whole designing a stadium for your cauldron. For Athens I believe it was too late in the planning phase for them to pick up on that. construction would have started on their stadium before they could take notes from sidney but Beijing definitely did and I bet 1 billion dollars so too did London.

From what I see I think we are going to see a seamlessly fluid opening ceremony with a Cauldron lighting that ties everything together. The fact that we still don't know where and how is a testament to the fact that this has been in the forks from the start seeing the foundation for whatever it is has already been in place.

No. Zhang Yimou was NOT yet picked when they put their stamp on the Herzog-de Meuron design of Bird's Nest. The only thing that supposedly, Zhang was able to add to the stadium design was the 20-foot scrim which went around the lip of the stadium (to be used for projections). To me, the while scroll idea was a post-stadium-conception idea which jelled, luckily for the CHinese, almost seamlessly with the whole Scroll theme. (Y do u htink they started everything at 8-08-08? :lol: ) However, still a good 2/5ths of the stadium was NOT ABLE to witness the actual lighting of the flame. I DON'T call that far-sighted planning.

The other previous LIGHTINGs have been seen by everyone in the stadium...even in Barcelona when altho the cauldon was behind us, we still saw that arrow fly through the night air, and with just a little turning of the neck, saw it light the cauldron before our eyes. Many thousands in Beijing (and I guess Torino) were denied the actual lighting moment. They could only watch on the jumbotrons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good Point but I think you forget the mentality of the people you are dealing with. The lighting of the Cauldron was not meant to be seen by the people who didn't see it. It was supposed to be fore the international television audience and the dignitaries and media. All about the show of power to the world not to it's own people. Come on these people put a pretty girl in place of the one that actually sang the song just because she was more television friendly. I think they were too far sighted in their planning lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good Point but I think you forget the mentality of the people you are dealing with. The lighting of the Cauldron was not meant to be seen by the people who didn't see it. It was supposed to be fore the international television audience and the dignitaries and media. All about the show of power to the world not to it's own people. Come on these people put a pretty girl in place of the one that actually sang the song just because she was more television friendly. I think they were too far sighted in their planning lol

Look in some of the other threads here. The IOC Charter specifically states that their cauldron must be seen by (most) people at the event. Of course, there are exceptions (as in the aforementioned cases); but even Vancouver which had an entirely enclosed stadium, fulfilled the IOC's cauldron dictates. So my point is, because of inherent structural considerations...and, yes, they DO NOT have Ceremonial thinkers in there way ahead of time, the cauldron just gets put wherever they can fit it in.

In a perfect world, yes, they would have Show Production people on board early, but....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so sure about that. Beijing definitely had the lighting in mind. Do u all remember the original plans for the stadium during the bid process. It looked nothing like the plans they had after they won the bid and i am talking like the next day the stadium design changed. Cauldron fit so seamlessly with the architecture of the stadium and you have to add the branding with the scroll Idea with the torch which also fit with the paper theme of the ceremony.

All renders of stadiums shown during the bid phase change. Take at look at Sydney's and London's, for example. They're just renders, not actual designs with engineering and costs and whatnot taken into account.

Beijing held a competition to choose its stadium design. The Bird's Nest won. And then the 2008 ceremonies team had to stage their show and design a cauldron with the venue they were given. They did a really good job coming up with a cultural segment and cauldron lighting sequence that played off one of the stadium's unique architectural features, that thick roof rim. The rim's size was always going to be that big, but I believe it was the specific material/fabric that covered it that was what ceremony organizers played with and altered in order to play projections on it.

It had nothing to do with Beijing wanting to make the lighting "international tv audience-focused." Let's not be cynical.

Architecturally, I don't think Beijing's cauldron particularly matches the Bird's Nest harmoniously. But its red and silver color brought it together aesthetically with the rest of the stadium so it didn't stick out in an ugly way. But I would say Beijing did the best job synthesizing its lighting sequence with its stadium design, closely followed by Sydney.

Athens had the one cauldron that best matched its stadium's architecture (as it was all designed by Calatrava), closely followed by LA.

And Salt Lake and Beijing had the cauldrons that best matched their Games' Look and Image.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

What is 'part of it'? NOT good enough. The stem? The bottom? More importantly where?? You should've wrestled her to the ground, Mitch, until she took you to the backroom and let you take a foto!! :lol:

Haha. I think I could've got more out of her, actually. But we got talking about how well it'd been kept a secret and I bottled it - I don't want to spoil the surprise for myself!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the cauldron location...

Getty images has some pictures of the area north of the stadium from the last few days. For instance this one dated July 17. There is no sign of any work going on outside the first ring of pods. So I think we can rule out the white square on the edge there that people were so interested in as of last week. I still think near the "double size pod" is the right position.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Soooo forgive me if this has been suggested before, but:

We've seen photos of a spotlight on the roof of the stadium. And then another photo emerged of another spotlight next to it. And Heatherwick himself said it wasn't just going to be a 'thing', it was going to be an event. What if those spotlights were for people. And instead of two, there's a spotlight behing EACH pyramid on the roof. For somebody with a torch to light a flame on top of each pyramid section. In in an instant, the cauldron has is revealed to have been right infront of our very own eyes.

Is there a rule saying there must only be one cauldron? Perhaps the plan is to have flames burning atop the stadium from each pyramid for the entirety of the games.

It's a bit of a mental suggestion...but there ya go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...