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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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I agree with you also that its unlikely for any Cauldron to appear inside the Stadium at this late stage. I also now can't see any Cauldron structure being constructed outside the Stadium at any other location besides the Orbit this close to the Games.

It's not unrealistic that they'll still build a cauldron outside the stadium. Torino started assembling its cauldron tower only six weeks prior to the start of the Games. If they use -- just like in Torino -- pre-assembled parts, the final assembly of the cauldron could be pretty quick. Torino took only about three weeks for that.

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All this pushing for the Oribt to be the cauldron seems odd to me. It's not designed for that. If it goes on top of the viewing platform, for example, the whole thing will be obscured from view for people in the Park and in the stadium by the central trunk and the upper loop. I can't see them "attaching" it somehow to the structure in an ad-hoc way to get around this problem as it'd just look bizarre.

Anyway, looky what I've found:

http://www.gamesbids...m/page__st__220

Olympian2004 had it right then. :D

Edited by RobH
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I know this is a little far fetched, but I think it would be awesome to see the cauldron tower coming out of the river...maybe right where those two channel meet just north of the stadium. I think it would sort of fit with the theme of renewing the land from its industrial past, and having it in the river would certainly give enough of a security perimeter.

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The only way it would be The Orbit is if a) they had supercoated the viewing gallery with some kind of heat resistant material so people inside don't die and b)didn't design it with a loop of steel where the flame will be at its hottest.

Plus I doubt LOCOG would give Boris the credit of having his sculpture as the main stage of the Park.

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Reading that Beijing thread is great--the cauldron ideas for that one are ridiculously hilarious in retrospect. Giant fire-breathing swallows! I now want London to start setting up something of interest that must be for the cauldron just for the wacky speculation that would ensue.

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Anything's possible when it comes to Olympic Cauldrons these days. There's a lot we don't know.

Things we do know:

  • at 115 metres (377 feet) tall, the Orbit is so far the only featured and tallest structure outside & close to the Stadium,
  • the Orbit's viewing areas are not open to the public until after the Games according to several recent media reports on-line: why is that?
  • Torino's Cauldron was the only featured and tallest structure outside and close to its Stadium but had no competition in the form of a massive Orbit-like structure,
  • for London, a pre-fabricated cauldron supporting structure could certainly be quickly erected somewhere but where and why would you place it in or around the stadium and not feature it? If it was shorter than the Orbit, how would you visually handle that with the taller Orbit close by?
  • Sydney's Cauldron didn't burn anyone or anything as it travelled up to the top between the crowds either side of it's track in the grandstand,
  • Safety issues re any Cauldron placement will have been addressed by the IOC and LOCOG, and not necessarily in a way that any of us could have envisaged,
  • Visibility of the Cauldron for those inside and outside the Stadium will be maximised within whatever constraints they have - but there are always some of the Stadium crowd that won't be able to see it well - thats always been the case,

I was thinking the Cauldron would be attached off to one side near, but not right at the the top, of the Orbit and not centred under the semi-circle metal garland. The Orbit itself is a bit offbeat and contemporary in its design so the Cauldron's placement would likely be a bit off-centre too. That's my theory anyway.

Edited by AustralianFan
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for London, a pre-fabricated cauldron supporting structure could certainly be quickly erected somewhere but where and why would you place it in our around the stadium and not feature it? If it was shorter than the Orbit, how would you visually handle that with the taller Orbit close by?

That's not really a problem in my opinion, bearing in mind that Vancouver's outdoor cauldron was also towered over by many taller buildings in its vicinity.

I think the main point will be that the flame can be seen prominently by at least the majority of spectators in the stadium, that it will be a focal point for the eyes. And I think that would be the case also with a cauldron which is smaller than the Orbit. As long as the cauldron doesn't stand directly besides the Orbit, it won't be overshadowed really.

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So you have inside knowledge? How come?

No. I don't have any inside knowledge. I group myself with people who really don't know what LOCOG is planning.

I'm just saying that after reading this thread the guesses are all over the place. There are plenty of pros and cons all the way around and it feels like there are quite a few stabs in the dark. I see arguments for and against the Orbit and I don't know which way it will go.

I think LOCOG has done a great job of keeping us in suspense.

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I think LOCOG has done a great job of keeping us in suspense.

I see. Well, but I don't think that LOCOG does that completely on purpose -- it's actually our fault that we are so desperate about not knowing yet what the cauldron will look like or even where it will be. As I said, they still have plenty of time even now to build a complete cauldron tower. It could take another four, five or even six weeks before we get any clue about the cauldron. But I highly doubt that they can keep it secret until the very last minute. Even Beijing and Vancouver, despite all their efforts with the rubber hangar respectively the scaffolding, didn't manage that.

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I'm always torn on these cauldron threads as the games approach. On the one hand, I'm too curious and can't not look. On the other, I really don't ant to know too much - I still like to have something to be surprised about with the ceremonies!

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Was thinking about Sydney's cauldron ceremony. It was the most jaw dropping and surprising cauldron moment for me. Technically it is the most difficult amongst all but they pulled it off beautifully albeit the stucked moments.

Made me think of things that can go wrong in a cauldron ceremony. Can you imagine what I'd the flying torch bearer in Beijing dropped the torch while running mid-air?? That will be the most awkward and biggest f-up in history. I don't even know what can they do if that really happen. Can you imagine his nerve when he's running up there? Trying his best to grip the torch while harnessed running must not be easy!

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Re: the whole huge structure near the stadium thing, don't forget Beijing's Ling Long Pagoda, which was very close to the main stadium.

[imghttp://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/67041720.jpg[/img]

67041720.jpg

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Re: the whole huge structure near the stadium thing, don't forget Beijing's Ling Long Pagoda, which was very close to the main stadium.

[imghttp://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/67041720.jpg[/img]

67041720.jpg

Sorry I disagree, it was not very close from the main stadium.... compared to London, it would mean that the cauldron tower will be on the opposite land across water from the main stadium concourse...

Personal Pic (stadium & cauldron at the background faraway !)

31530534827052776052052.jpg

Nasa Pic (Olympic Green) !

beijing_WV1_2008194_lrg.jpg

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Was thinking about Sydney's cauldron ceremony. It was the most jaw dropping and surprising cauldron moment for me. Technically it is the most difficult amongst all but they pulled it off beautifully albeit the stucked moments.

Made me think of things that can go wrong in a cauldron ceremony. Can you imagine what I'd the flying torch bearer in Beijing dropped the torch while running mid-air?? That will be the most awkward and biggest f-up in history. I don't even know what can they do if that really happen. Can you imagine his nerve when he's running up there? Trying his best to grip the torch while harnessed running must not be easy!

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3DDco5Qbs&t=3m20s

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OMG is this for real?! What a joke... I don't even get how it goes from one sequence to another. First the torch was carried by a couple of runners (without flame on it). The guy continues to sing on stage and the focus seems to be on the singer not the torch runners. Then there's the ship and some people climbing up the mast. Next thing we see is suddenly a roman woman was flying mid air holding a burning 'javelin' (where does the flame come from?). She flew towards the cauldron tower, and before she gets close to it the cauldron lit itself and she also spontaneously threw the javelin towards the cauldron. I believe the intention is for her to fly over/ near the cauldron enough to throw the javelin in. But somehow someone on ground navigate her off-target and there's no way she can throw the javelin from so far away, hence that haphazard 'throw' which looks more like she dropped the javelin.

Complete mess, worst case scenario ever. Its kinda hilarious in a way. Never in a million years London's ceremony will be anywhere near this joke.

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My gosh, that is a monumental stuffup in the S.E.A. Games video.

Actually, talking about timing of cauldron lightings, when video of the Barcelona 92 Cauldron lighting is slowed right down, you can clearly see the archer's flaming arrow disappear down outside the stadium after it passed over the Cauldron. Until I saw that, I always thought the arrow landed in the Cauldron. The question is if the Cauldron was ignited remotely as a backup, or if the flaming arrow was shot close enough to ignite the gas vapour in the Cauldron as it passed over it. Either way it looked fantastic at normal speed.

Good pics Kev re the 2008 Beijing Ling Long Pagoda tower which looks to have been quite a distance from the stadium. Good idea to get satellite or google earth pics to get a plan view. Might have to do that for London soon.

Interesting about Vancouver is that the primary cauldron lit during the 2010 Opening Ceremony was inside a fully enclosed stadium and therefore relatively low in size. The secondary identical cauldron they lit afterwards in the open city square was so more people could share in it throughout the Games. From my recollections I think those Games were the first time the Olympic Cauldron has ever been lit inside a fully enclosed building. .

The uniqueness of London is that they seem to have deliberately built this giant eye-catching structure right next to the Stadium, so close in fact that you can see right into the centre of the Stadium floor from near its top. LOCOG wants us to believe that it, the Orbit, is merely a sculpture for sight seeing and artistic purposes (yeah, pull the other one).

In no way am I hung up on the Orbit, but it remains No.1 suspect for me for the time being. Good on 'em for keeping us guessing. I think London will do an outstanding precision job all round with these Games.

Edited by AustralianFan
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Actually, talking about timing of cauldron lightings, when video of the Barcelona 92 Cauldron lighting is slowed right down, you can clearly see the archer's flaming arrow disappear down outside the stadium after it passed over the Cauldron. Until I saw that, I always thought the arrow landed in the Cauldron. The question is if the Cauldron was ignited remotely as a backup, or if the flaming arrow was shot close enough to ignite the gas vapour in the Cauldron as it passed over it. Either way it looked fantastic at normal speed.

;) You can't know that -- but that has been a major topic several times here on this board. There's even a video taken from outside the stadium where you can clearly see that the arrow passed the cauldron:

And it could be that the video also answers the question whether the cauldron was lit automatically or whether the arrow ignited the gas vapour. Watch for the delay -- the flame only shoots upwards after the arrow has passed it, not at the same moment. Additionally, the flame shot upwards and you can't see that the flame actually originated from above and shot down into the gas vapour and into the cauldron, as you might expect from a arrow crossing flying through a stream of gas. I'm not a specialist on these matters, though. But I fear that -- stunning as it was -- the cauldron lighting in Barcelona wasn't purely genuine. They apparently lit the cauldron automatically.

Interesting about Vancouver is that the primary cauldron lit during the 2010 Opening Ceremony was inside a fully enclosed stadium and therefore relatively low in size. The secondary identical cauldron they lit afterwards in the open city square was so more people could share in it throughout the Games. From my recollections I think those Games were the first time the Olympic Cauldron has ever been lit inside a fully enclosed building.

Not quite. It was the first time that the cauldron has been lit in a fully enclosed building at the opening ceremony, yes. But the Winter Games had indoor closing ceremonies in their figure skating or ice hockey arenas for many years (I believe, from 1956 to 1984), and for many of those closing ceremonies they had a special cauldron within the arena.

You can see it, for example, here in the video of the Lake Placid 1980 closing ceremony:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmOyvQKx1QI

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Oh wow, that video is a revelation. All these years I have always thought the arrow lands straight into the cauldron, which I thought was just spectacular. It's still a great move nevertheless, just that in hindsight, yes it might be too big a risk to take to expect him to shoot so accurately in a live broadcast.

Wonder if anyone gets hurt outside the stadium when the arrow lands? LOL or they already prepared a clearing on the landing spot. :)

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Good pics Kev re the 2008 Beijing Ling Long Pagoda tower which looks to have been quite a distance from the stadium. Good idea to get satellite or google earth pics to get a plan view. Might have to do that for London soon.

Last time I checked neither Google nor Bing were up to date with London. Hopefully they'll get some new maps and aerial shots before the Games! :D

Here's the latest map though from the new 2012 website if you want to get an overview of the Park:

http://www.london2012.com/mm%5CDocument%5Cspectators%5CVenue%5C01%5C25%5C01%5C45%5CNEWMAP_Neutral.pdf

The uniqueness of London is that they seem to have deliberately built this giant eye-catching structure right next to the Stadium, so close in fact that you can see right into the centre of the Stadium floor from near its top. LOCOG wants us to believe that it, the Orbit, is merely a sculpture for sight seeing and artistic purposes (yeah, pull the other one).

Not quite. The Orbit is not LOCOG's baby. They had no say in how this was built, nor what it is for. It was a project foistered upon London 2012 by the Mayor essentially. So yes, I think it is just a viewing tower and wouldn't have come into LOCOG's thinking when planning the cauldron. It's a noisy neighbour, not part of the LOCOG household.

I just cannot see, with all the practical limitations I and others have already pointed out (frying tourists, and steel loops obscuring the flame), plus the fact that Orbit is not a project of LOCOG's that it's going to be housing the cauldron. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am.

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