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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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All signs point to this area. The lighting on the stadium, the TOR is just on the other side, the "blueprints". I would agree with all of these, but the only issue is that it is in the main flow of pedestrian traffic. If you view every entrance/exit ramp the pathways are clear. Tens of thousands of people need to enter and exit through these areas. London has been very wise about human flow patterns, the cauldron and tower would only block and markedly decrease the flow through the area. I do however feel that this is the side of the stadium where the cauldron would exist. This is my theory because the large screens mounted on the other side of the stadium would allow those sitting on the north side to view the "moment".

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What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

This photo actually jogged my memory of a Jason Hawkes photo from a few weeks ago -- it's a nice panorama that you can zoom in on: http://www.jasonhawkes.com/blog/360/buildBFianl/virtualtour.html. If you zoom in on the circled area in that picture, you will see a break in the shard pattern right where the circle is that appears to be some construction. By the time this picture was taken, it's hard to see the break unless you zoom in and have it circled (thanks dah05). There also appears to be some construction in the Hawkes photo to the left of the two square pods.

It seems like the circle is the most likely spot. But the other construction site to the left might indicate a triangular structure or base, much like the light towers in the stadium. The center of the triangle would be in line with the middle of the stadium. And the "double pod" could support wires and motors that would lower the triangle to lean out over the edge of the stadium and then pull it back to upright. Just a thought...

The only odd thing about these locations is that they would impede some of the traffic coming over those two bridges. But otherwise this seems about right.

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Beijing actually was one of the beautiful cauldrons, with a majestic tall and yet broad flame. It looked much better than those chimney-type cauldron pipes that were used in Athens, Torino and Vancouver.

Los Angeles 1984 also used a re-furbished 1932 chimney Cauldron - but it looked ugly.

Also hate any Cauldron at other Games supported by a scaffolding-style tower (Atlanta included), looks very messy and detracts from the Cauldron and the flame itself.

Of this group above, I really only liked Athens' Cauldron and its elegancy. The haunting music, back-lighting and the way it "bowed down" beautifully to be lit and then rose again. Sydney's too was elegant, metallic and beautiful too, reminiscent of a sleek flying saucer, ready to lift off the supporting column.

The worst and most bizarre ever I think was Atlanta's large and scorched "large fries" Cauldron of 1996. The worst lighting method too, slow and clumsy. A shame too as that was the Centennial Games celebrating 100 years of the modern Olympic Games era.

But among the best Cauldron moments I think was the suprise Atlanta reveal of Muhammed Ali as the final torchbearer, just magic.

Edited by AustralianFan
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I will never truly understand why after the Barcelona Lighting that Atlanta went with such a **** lighting sequence. The choice of Ali was perfect, and the cauldron itseld was nice, depicting a scroll but that scaffolding was just hideous, it should have been on a pole, similar to the torch. and i am sure that they could have came up with a more spectacular lighting to fit with the greatest sportsman of the century.

They started off well with the flame entering from the centre of the stadium and also being run up that awesome ramp

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I still think there's been some muddling here. I think the PM's approval was given for the whole ceremony when Boyle and his team asked for a substantial budget increase. I don't think Cameron specifically gave permission for the cauldron placement.

Thanks Rob, got the earlier story mixed up as thought the PM approved the lighting method :)

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Didn't the Atlanta lighting have issues though? As in, it wasn't supposed to be slow and clumsy, but Muhammad Ali lit the wrong end?

I dont know about any issues with Atlanta's lighting except that it went downhill from after Ali wa revealed. Does anyone else know of this (?) I couldnt see that he lit the wrong end judging only from the tv footage - I dont think there was a 'wrong end'.

It was a simple small capsule shaped thing on the cable up to the Cauldron and after Ali touch the torch and flame against it, the capsule thing ignited and very painfully slowly started moving and eventually gathered speed (too late) nearer to the Cauldron. So I'm guessing a problem or poorly designed cable mechanics, not which part of it was lit.

I will never truly understand why after the Barcelona Lighting that Atlanta went with such a **** lighting sequence. The choice of Ali was perfect, and the cauldron itseld was nice, depicting a scroll but that scaffolding was just hideous, it should have been on a pole, similar to the torch. and i am sure that they could have came up with a more spectacular lighting to fit with the greatest sportsman of the century.

They started off well with the flame entering from the centre of the stadium and also being run up that awesome ramp

i agree with you about the emergence of the flame from the centre, up the ramp and then the choice of Ali, just magnificent. He did deserve better than what followed after he lit it,

But honestly, Atlanta's actual Cauldron was butt ugly, similar to a big red large fries holder from Macdonalds.

Edited by AustralianFan
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I dont know about any issues with Atlanta's lighting except that it went downhill from after Ali wa revealed. Does anyone else know of this (?) I couldnt see that he lit the wrong end judging only from the tv footage - I dont think there was a 'wrong end'.

It was a simple small capsule shaped thing on the cable up to the Cauldron and after Ali touch the torch and flame against it, the capsule thing ignited and very painfully slowly started moving and eventually gathered speed (too late) nearer to the Cauldron. So I'm guessing a problem or poorly designed cable mechanics, not which part of it was lit.

i agree with you about the emergence of the flame from the centre, up the ramp and then the choice of Ali, just magnificent. He did deserve better than what followed after he lit it,

But honestly, Atlanta's actual Cauldron was butt ugly, similar to a big red large fries holder from Macdonalds.

I've never heard that before, that Ali did anything wrong. But it definitely took longer for the flame to travel up to the cauldron than planned... If you watch the Atlanta Olympic Broadcasting's clean feed of the ceremony it sounds like someone pauses the music track when they realise just how long it is taking.

Yes, Atlanta's cauldron was quite ugly compared to most but strangely I have always been fond of it. In fact that's pretty much how I feel about the whole Atlanta 1996 Games lol. There were problems, perhaps some tacky moments but there were also some truly grand moments and I have always been fascinated by them (okay, with that comment please nobody start the Gamesbids annual Atlanta argument lol).

I believe it was discussed here years ago that the original concept for the Atlanta lighting was for torchbearers to run up the stairs of the cauldron tower, but NBC(?) kicked up a stink about it not being practical for camera angles etc. So although that wouldn't have been that much more spectacular than what actually took place, the fact that they had to change their lighting concept does in part explain why it was such a poor answer to Barcelona's flaming arrow. And it does show that there was a purpose to the tower itself and why it had all those stairs (I.e. it could have just been a simple tower like Torino's).

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I dont know about any issues with Atlanta's lighting except that it went downhill from after Ali wa revealed. Does anyone else know of this (?) I couldnt see that he lit the wrong end judging only from the tv footage - I dont think there was a 'wrong end'.

It was a simple small capsule shaped thing on the cable up to the Cauldron and after Ali touch the torch and flame against it, the capsule thing ignited and very painfully slowly started moving and eventually gathered speed (too late) nearer to the Cauldron. So I'm guessing a problem or poorly designed cable mechanics, not which part of it was lit.

i agree with you about the emergence of the flame from the centre, up the ramp and then the choice of Ali, just magnificent. He did deserve better than what followed after he lit it,

But honestly, Atlanta's actual Cauldron was butt ugly, similar to a big red large fries holder from Macdonalds.

Hahaha a fries holder from Macdonalds... Thats a good analogy.

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Los Angeles 1984 also used a re-furbished 1932 chimney Cauldron - but it looked ugly.

I beg your pardon. LA's classic deco-influenced cauldron was designed as the apex of the Coliseum's iconic peristyle. It is simple, elegant and in perfect harmony with the architecture of the period.

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I beg your pardon. LA's classic deco-influenced cauldron was designed as the apex of the Coliseum's iconic peristyle. It is simple, elegant and in perfect harmony with the architecture of the period.

Yes, it suits the stadium nicely. But the flame on its top is not very impressive. It's actually a giant candle.

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I beg your pardon. LA's classic deco-influenced cauldron was designed as the apex of the Coliseum's iconic peristyle. It is simple, elegant and in perfect harmony with the architecture of the period.

It's still ugly, I'm sorry to say.

Yes the LA Colliseum used in the 1932 and 1984 Games looked splendid and was art deco influenced. Also their 1984 Opening Ceremony was grand, hollywood style and stunning.

During the 1984 lighting, the flame burnt up through the Olympic rings, then got to the actual Cauldron which was disappointingly chimney style in appearance, with an awful black painted top. It still looks ugly to this day on the top of the Stadium. Its unfortunate that for both the LA and Atlanta Games, their Cauldron choices were very poor.

However, the organisers of the 1984 Summer Games were the first to be 'privatised' and also the first to make a profit.

Remember too that the 1928 Amsterdam Games just before the 1932 LA were the first Games of the modern era that a Cauldron was lit at an Olympic Games, so Cauldron design was very much in its infancy.

With a modern themes like the flying rocket man at the 1984 Opening Ceremony, it's a pity they didn't also update the Cauldron.

Correction: the 1932 Games also made a profit :) .

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It goes to show just how dramatic the transformation of the area has been, that the green bridge is one of the few remaining parts of the old site.

719249732_2eff39895a.jpg

Carpenters Lock / Bridge over City Mill River by captainzep, on Flickr

I'm liking SwissO's theory about the white plate on the island. It's on a direct line from the bell, through the Tor, and satellite imagery from a couple of years ago shows that the plate was in place as the stadium was being fitted out (this image is from June 2010):

heatherwicksarc.jpg

There's one other confidential reason why I'm pretty confident about this location for the cauldron, which I can't reveal here. So I'm writing it on this piece of imaginary paper, and putting the paper in this imaginary envelope, which I'll open on July 28th to prove the sceptics that I'm not mad!

There is a dot/mark in the exact same place the x is on the picture I posted yesterday.

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It's still ugly, I'm sorry to say.

Yes the LA Colliseum used in the 1932 and 1984 Games looked splendid and was art deco influenced. Also their 1984 Opening Ceremony was grand, hollywood style and stunning.

During the 1984 lighting, the flame burnt up through the Olympic rings, then got to the actual Cauldron which was disappointingly chimney style in appearance, with an awful black painted top. It still looks ugly to this day on the top of the Stadium. Its unfortunate that for both the LA and Atlanta Games, their Cauldron choices were very poor.

However, the organisers of the 1984 Summer Games were the first to be 'privatised' and also the first to make a profit.

Remember too that the 1928 Amsterdam Games just before the 1932 LA were the first Games of the modern era that a Cauldron was lit at an Olympic Games, so Cauldron design was very much in its infancy.

With a modern themes like the flying rocket man at the 1984 Opening Ceremony, it's a pity they didn't also update the Cauldron.

I VIOLENTLY disagree with you on this.

The cauldron and the peristyle work together as a unified icon not only of Lis Angeles, but of the Olympic Games. Together they are elegant and harmonious -- perfectly in proportion. Even if the cauldron were ugly (WHICH IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT), changing it would destroy the peristyle and ruin the Coliseum's status as a historic site.

I don't understand why you recap the ceremonies content, the profitability of the Games, etc. -- points that are universally known on these boards and extremely well known to me since I was there and own the official report of the Games.

Who cares if there's a rocket man and a cauldron dating to the 30s? Since when is honoring history -- especially when it's done with such architectural style and integrity -- incompatible with contemporary elements. "Bulldoze a historical treasure because it's not the same vintage as the ceremony content." Seriously?

The ceremony was primarily historical on nature anyway. It featured pioneers in covered wagons, "Rhapsody in Blue", and old Gospel music. Exactly which period is the architecture supposed to match?

The cauldron and peristyle are a stunning historical landmark and I would take any action necessary to prevent them from being changed.

Obviously you have no appreciation for the history or architecture and your aesthetic judgements are absolutely baffling to me.

Then again, you're an Aussie. Sydney picked a UFO cauldron design, removed it from the stadium, threw away the original base and propped up the pseudo-space age disc on a random assortment of pipes after the Games.

That suggests

1.) a preference for the pseudo-futuristic (which I personally find cheesy).

2.) no attempt to integrate cauldron and stadium.

3.) no respect for history or legacy.

In that sense I suppose your view makes sense, but I see absolutely ZERO merit to your argument that LA's cauldron be pulled down in favor of something "futuristic."

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Then again, you also think the Orbit is a good place for London's cauldron and you have no problem with asking Heatherwick to work with Kapoor's monstrosity. I think that tells us all we need to know about your taste where cauldrons are concerned.

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The Stadium is nice, the Cauldron is ugly.

So you're just going to keep repeating "ugly" ad if that proves something? You can't detach the cauldron from the peristyle without destroying the venue. Evidently grace, unity and architectural cohesion are worhtless to you. As I said, your opinion of the Orbit as a cauldron location explains everything here.

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As I said, it's still ugly in my opinion.

Calm down, we agree to disagree,

However, I agree with you about what they have done with Sydney's Cauldron, it's a real shame they threw away that magnificent supporting column as the current display in Olympic Park, Homebush, looks forlorn - especially when we remember how good it looked during the Games blazing away high up there in the stands in 2000.

I look forward to seeing Heatherwick's Cauldron for 2012, whereever it is placed.

Edited by AustralianFan
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Didn't the Atlanta lighting have issues though? As in, it wasn't supposed to be slow and clumsy, but Muhammad Ali lit the wrong end?

Can't find a video anywhere but I'm sure when they relit it for the Paralympics it happened alot quicker - though it's possible they lit it a bit higher up (did the lighter raise themselves up similar to how they did in Beijing?)

For me Athens was perfect after a spectacular but over complicated affair in Sydney. Also liked the way the Olympic rings were lit during the ceremony - if a flame has to fly to meet the target that's how you want to see it done, not slowly rise as it did in Atlanta. Beijing did nothing for me really - the actual lighting was fine, but the lap running round the air just delayed the moment for me rather than built up to it.

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There seems to be a lot talk about the tree prop being related the cauldron. Maybe the final torch bearer will climb on top of the tree and it will rise up to the top of the stadium where the cauldron will appear or the tree will "open up" to reveal the cauldron.

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Hello all! Newbie here! I assume you've all seen this, yes? I only mention it because there was talk about the government's involvement earlier and Hetherwick mentions the goverment's involvement in the video in relation to the cauldron lighting. He also speaks about the cauldron in terms of saying it's not just a 'thing', it's a moment. Anyway, thought I'd post for those who haven't seen it :)

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Their installing the cauldron model at the Heatherwick exhibition on the 27th? At 9 in the morning or at night?

Either way, sounds like the design will be out there before the lighting by a few hours or by an entire day.

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