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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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SwissO, wasn't that circle area on the other side of the canal your original suspect spot when you started this thread on 3 April?

Yes it was !

From the Virtual Tour posted by Rob in the olympic park thread:

http://www.jasonhawk...irtualtour.html

Anyone noticed that quaint little arch bridge linking the colour mosaic bridge across the river to the green landscape to the east of the stadium? There's two little rectangle white patches on the grass. Firstly, what is that little arch bridge for? It looks so disproportionate and odd, linking to that patch of landscape that really is a dead end with no special interest. Could it be the bridge is special access only and the rectangle patches are where the cauldron is?

Pictures taken at the beginning of April 2012

dscf0886z.jpg

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what proof do you have to let us know you really are in the ceremony

Sigh, no proof that I'll share here but I do know enough not to go posting confidential pictures of the stadium - whoever took those was going against the spirit of being involved in the ceremonies and also against their contract (not that they show anything new). Don't you guys think it's more fun to keep guessing what will be in the show and we can say if you're heading in the right or wrong direction?

I'm sure that Adrian would be able to confirm anything that I've said.

And there are no Teletubbies - as far as I know.

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It goes to show just how dramatic the transformation of the area has been, that the green bridge is one of the few remaining parts of the old site.

719249732_2eff39895a.jpg

Carpenters Lock / Bridge over City Mill River by captainzep, on Flickr

I'm liking SwissO's theory about the white plate on the island. It's on a direct line from the bell, through the Tor, and satellite imagery from a couple of years ago shows that the plate was in place as the stadium was being fitted out (this image is from June 2010):

heatherwicksarc.jpg

There's one other confidential reason why I'm pretty confident about this location for the cauldron, which I can't reveal here. So I'm writing it on this piece of imaginary paper, and putting the paper in this imaginary envelope, which I'll open on July 28th to prove the sceptics that I'm not mad!

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It goes to show just how dramatic the transformation of the area has been, that the green bridge is one of the few remaining parts of the old site.

719249732_2eff39895a.jpg

Carpenters Lock / Bridge over City Mill River by captainzep, on Flickr

I'm liking SwissO's theory about the white plate on the island. It's on a direct line from the bell, through the Tor, and satellite imagery from a couple of years ago shows that the plate was in place as the stadium was being fitted out (this image is from June 2010):

heatherwicksarc.jpg

There's one other confidential reason why I'm pretty confident about this location for the cauldron, which I can't reveal here. So I'm writing it on this piece of imaginary paper, and putting the paper in this imaginary envelope, which I'll open on July 28th to prove the sceptics that I'm not mad!

Thanks kinetic that picture with the red line really hits the white plate at the exact north south axis! Now this is getting more interesting, and it had been there so early in construction. That old relic bridge seems to be placed there for a reason. Why would they want to link and make people go to that little landscape bank which is cut off from the rest of the stadium concourse?? I think we are onto something here... at last?

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If they wanted to have lots of people cross the water there to see a cauldron, they would have a considerably bigger bridge. Not a small narrow one.

Maybe it is not their plan to have the public get up close to the cauldron, and the cauldron structure is not meant to be viewed from such close proximity. If it is a tall tower, it would be best appreciated from a certain distance and I think across the river is the minimum distance to appreciate the design and see the flame on top. Also the small bridge will only be used for special access only eg. maintenance, VIP.

BTW that iron bridge had uncanny resemblance to Heatherwicks rolling bridge. Pure coincidence or part of the scheme?

Edited by kevzz
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If they wanted to have lots of people cross the water there to see a cauldron, they would have a considerably bigger bridge. Not a small narrow one.

Good point if the cauldron were small and/or low. However the original planning permission gave the scope for a very tall cauldron, much taller than the stadium roof, and the view of it will be good from many points in the park including bridges C and D between which the white square is located.

If I could work out the height of the stadium canopy, then I'd be ready to make a bet on the height of the cauldron.

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The bridge design is coincidence. It's been there for years and years as pointed out above.

And is there a close-up aerial pic up of this "plate" area? I sound like a broken record in this thread by continuing to bring this up, but such a tall cauldron would require a sizable foundation to support it. Is there any evidence of a foundation in this "plate" area?

With pretty much a month to go until rehearsals... I'm getting ready to completely 100% throw out the possibility of a tall cauldron tower... There just ins't anymore time left to build one...

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That white/greyish square was one of my first guesses (didn't SwissO originally guess that the cauldron will be located in that small garden on the other side of the canal north/northwest of the stadium?).

But here's what speaks against it in my opinion:

1) It's actually much too small to be a solid foundation for a huge cauldron tower. And that tower would have to be huge indeed, because it's located on that lower concourse below the stadium's ground level. It would have to be at least about 70 metres in size, I estimate. It would only (possibly) work if the cauldron was a very slim needle -- as opposed to a slender, but solid tower as Torino had it.

2) That square is not really on the north-south axis of the stadium, but slightly to the east of it. The red line Kinetic drew on that satellite picture of the stadium would have to go through the middle of the northern tunnel leading onto the stadium's infield -- which it doesn't.

3) That square not the only white/greyish square near the canal. Look at this picture in full size -- you will see a similar square right beside the same canal east of the stadium, just below the Orbit. Furthermore, there are other (albeit smaller) white/greyish squares on the concourse near that colourful mosaic and near the bridge north of the stadium. To me, they appear to be gullies.

708994843787ec2b7aefo.jpg

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I forgot a fourth reason against that square (besides the word "is" at the beginning of point 3 ("That square is..." ;)):

It's surrounded pretty closely by those young trees. Pretty dangerous, if you ask me, to let a flame "hover" above those trees...

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the cauldron is already built and has been for some time now, it's just hidden or located off site where it was built and is ready to be placed just before the games begin! The best way to build something secretly is to build it somewhere else!

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the cauldron is already built and has been for some time now, it's just hidden or located off site where it was built and is ready to be placed just before the games begin! The best way to build something secretly is to build it somewhere else!

Agreed. And it will end up where the known gas lines are...not unless some other secret gas lines have been added. I think the cauldron might still be under wraps at the 3 Mills Studios. It'll probably take 48 hours to shove it into the hole on the north side; and a testing a day or two before July 27.

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I am enjoying the discussion around where the location of the cauldron might be, and what it might look like. I'm only a newbie here and haven't delved into the whole thread, but presume that the actual planning permissions have been discussed?

Now, there's the caveat that the ODC is allowed to not publish sensitive or confidential planning applications, and it's possible that the permissions for the Olympic Cauldron will have changed, but the evidence does strongly support that white block as the location:

  • The original permissions for the cauldron presume a small, solid foundation
  • The location of that permission is clearly the exact spot of that white square (look at where the A-A' cross-section is located on the bottom left of that planning submission)
  • The brief for what became the Orbit offered a number of sites in the park (detailed in the Orbit planning submission) and referenced (i) the Northerly location and (ii) that "a minimum height of 100m was needed for spectators in the Olympic Stadium to see the flame"
  • The Orbit planning application also states that north of the stadium (PDZ3) was rejected because "The requirement to incorporate the Olympic flame did not meet the Artistic intention of the piece"
  • Analysis has gone into the zone of visual influence (ZVI) at this location
  • The Cauldron will be a 'legacy structure', extant on the site in 2021 and beyond (see the title of the planning application here)
  • Ignore the north-south being literally north-south, and instead look at the line from inside to outside the stadium. That's going to be important.

And as for requiring deep foundations and a long construction time, I expect the cauldron will be more of a mast than a robust pillar - in the manner of, but not inspired by, the Skylon (which required few foundations) - that can be erected very quickly. Coincidentally, reading around the topic there are serendipitous parallels in the careers of Heatherwick and Samuely (who designed and engineered the Skylon).

From my calculations I'm predicting that the cauldron will be exactly 100m tall. But will be happily proved wrong about that.

I rest my case!

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Oh my God, I walked over that little iron bridge years ago when I went on a walk to see the old Big Breakfast house. I find it almost impossible to compare the image of that area then with how it is now. Don't think I've ever (or will ever) experience such a transformation of a place.

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Oh my God, I walked over that little iron bridge years ago when I went on a walk to see the old Big Breakfast house. I find it almost impossible to compare the image of that area then with how it is now. Don't think I've ever (or will ever) experience such a transformation of a place.

Actually, Atlanta was first. The area where Centennial Park arose was also a blighted neighborhood of rundown, small indsutrial repair shops, etc. The area was opposite ACOG's Inforum offices. I noticed that on my first trip to ACOG in late November 1993. And then voila, come mid-1996, the ramshackle neighborhood was gone, and in its place was this spanking, sparkling new park with a few bits of Olympic Centennila imagery. Of course, the Parklands area is bigger, but same thing.

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Now, there's the caveat that the ODC is allowed to not publish sensitive or confidential planning applications, and it's possible that the permissions for the Olympic Cauldron will have changed, but the evidence does strongly support that white block as the location:

  • The original permissions for the cauldron presume a small, solid foundation
  • The location of that permission is clearly the exact spot of that white square (look at where the A-A' cross-section is located on the bottom left of that planning submission)
  • The brief for what became the Orbit offered a number of sites in the park (detailed in the Orbit planning submission) and referenced (i) the Northerly location and (ii) that "a minimum height of 100m was needed for spectators in the Olympic Stadium to see the flame"
  • The Orbit planning application also states that north of the stadium (PDZ3) was rejected because "The requirement to incorporate the Olympic flame did not meet the Artistic intention of the piece"
  • Analysis has gone into the zone of visual influence (ZVI) at this location
  • The Cauldron will be a 'legacy structure', extant on the site in 2021 and beyond (see the title of the planning application here)
  • Ignore the north-south being literally north-south, and instead look at the line from inside to outside the stadium. That's going to be important.

Great find! But, regarding your second bullet point: To me, that A-A' cross-section seems to be slightly to the south of the white square, namely around the area between the block of five catering pods and the row of four additional catering pods north-northeast of the stadium.

What is interesting, though, is that in that permission, the cauldron seems to be slightly to the east of the stadium's north-south axis. That does coincide with the white square's location indeed.

So it is your and your other ceremonial cast collegues' guess that the cauldron will be located at that white square?

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Thanks! You're right, the cross-section is different to what I suggested, although I'd not particularly rely on that as accurate.

The guess about the location is only my own, there's nothing in anything I've seen about the ceremonies that give any hint of the location - and I wonder if it won't even be shown in the dress rehearsals, instead being done in a closed stadium - but even if we did have inside knowledge, I wouldn't tell! All the evidence I've used is in the public domain.

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BTW that iron bridge had uncanny resemblance to Heatherwicks rolling bridge. Pure coincidence or part of the scheme?

Gosh, first the design on the tickets. What has that led to? Nothing so far.

Then the contours of the fake Tor and the fake tree. Now this little bridge. :blink: It's all in the eye of the beholder. Why 2 me, under acid, it looks like the Bridge on the River Kwai?!?!

What's next? :blink: Too many conspiracy theories me thinks.

I think it's hiding in Big Ben, and on July 21, Big Ben will open up and the cauldron/tower will emerge for its journey to Olympic Park!!

In 8 days before July 27, they can plant the cauldron tower, secure it, test it a few times; and then conduct a rehearsal or two. If nothing is up by July 25, then I would worry.

What about this photo?

11l0ljn.jpg

Maybe it's that tower to the right?

So will all those streets of London light up? So therefore, you can't have too many performers there covering the LED light show? They're not revealing things in a logical way here, are they?

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Baron, err... Shrek, maybe you should only post links to such pictures -- just that the "No spoilers, please" group doesn't get angry. ;) That's why I just posted a link to those new pictures in the ceremony thread.

@Kinetic: I'm certain they won't give a hint to the cauldron's location in the dress rehearsals. Usually, the dress rehearsals stop before the lighting of the cauldron segment. But just like Baron/Shrek I'm certain that we will know anyway where the cauldron will be by the time of the dress rehearsals. It's impossible to keep the cauldron completely under cover even during the last few days before the ceremony.

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This whole discussion gets exponenetially more psychotic each year.

And we thought Taichi and his wait for the digital countdown clocks was truly bonkers.

Wait till discussion gets to Sochi and if we get a few Russians in here; it will be complete bedlam!

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Thanks for the advice SwissO. Seems simple enough. Pics will be up on Sunday evening.

Ok - I was in the Olympic Park yesterday. Lots of activity going on. Really hard to get close to the Stadium so my pics are all long range efforts. Couldn't get any shots that indicated that certain suspect areas to the north of the stadium were being prepared for the cauldron so it is still a mystery. The whole of the east side of the stadium (dignitary and press entry) was no-go to us so I cannot report on whether the barge was there or not. What I did manage to snap was some of the opening ceremony 'Isles of Wonder' grass (meadow and cricket pitch presumably) out sunning itself and several of the large rings up on the roof.

The stadium wrap is really coming on at a pace now too.

dscf3520c.jpg

By beardyboy at 2012-06-24

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