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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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If the caludron is outside the stadium as the original poject states, How is gonna be lit?

are they gonna make fly someone again till get the cauldron?? Or in a firework display?

I imagine sth like this. Remember the Queen Baton for Commonweatlh Games in 2002 entered the stadium haging out in a gas ball with a dancer that carried it...

Sth similar is gonna happen? I mean, sth related to "fly"?

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What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

If the caludron is outside the stadium as the original poject states, How is gonna be lit?

are they gonna make fly someone again till get the cauldron?? Or in a firework display?

I imagine sth like this. Remember the Queen Baton for Commonweatlh Games in 2002 entered the stadium haging out in a gas ball with a dancer that carried it...

Sth similar is gonna happen? I mean, sth related to "fly"?

That small circular podium on the stage at the northern end of the stadium I was thinking might be

- either simply a podium to highlight a performer/singer during the OC and/or

- it might telescope upwards to lift the final torchbearer up between a gap in the wires to a position to light a Cauldron or a fuse/device which leads directly to the Cauldron (?).

rttg.jpg

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That small circular podium on the stage at the northern end of the stadium I was thinking might be

- either simply a podium to highlight a performer/singer during the OC and/or

- it might telescope upwards to lift the final torchbearer up between a gap in the wires to a position to light a Cauldron or a fuse/device which leads directly to the Cauldron (?).

rttg.jpg

I don't think so. I think that circular shape is part of the movable stage for artist to come up and down the field... As in recent ceremonies have donde so...

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I don't think so. I think that circular shape is part of the movable stage for artist to come up and down the field... As in recent ceremonies have donde so...

Its that small circular podium above that larger circular stage structure in the Northern stands that I was referring to, not the circle in the centre of the arena.

That small circular podium in the Northern stands, as shown below, reminds me of the one that rose vertically upwards during the Sydney Closing Ceremony and brought Nikki Webster up and close to the Cauldron.

If the London Cauldron structure was outside the Stadium, or even cantilevered from outside the northern end of the stadium and 'floating' over and above the centre of the stadium (see Paul65's post), then in these cases the final torchbearer is probably going to have to be in an elevated position in order to light it directly or some sort of fuse device leading to it.

The gaps in the flying wires network appear to be bigger at the outer edge of the stadium, ie possibly directly above that stage in the northern stands just in front of the jumbotron and scoreboard.

croppedzoomedjhinsidestadium.jpg

Edited by AustralianFan
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In pulling all the information together from the preceding 72 pages I have a hunch that:

1. The use of triangles is significant (triangular torch signifying third time the Games have been in London)

2. The mechanism supporting/holding the cauldron could feasibly be outside the stadium (the roof seems too well balanced already to support a further structure) yet the cauldron will be seen inside the stadium and possibly from elsewhere in the park too

3. The London 2012 planning document identifies the footprint of the cauldron being outside the stadium at some stage

Is it beyond the realm of engineering that some sort of lean, triangular, cantilevered structure with a gas line running through it and secured by cables (like anchoring tent guylines) outside the stadium at the north end [PDF of Park Map] could suspend the cauldron over the roof and make it appear that the cauldron is floating in the air within the stadium?

1) I never realized that 3 would be so significant, but now that you mention it, I have to think it will play some part. So many triangles in just the stadium itself. There seems to have been some forethought that went into the stadium, so I hope they considered the cauldron and lighting somehow as well.

2) I'm pretty convinced the cauldron structure will be anchored outside the stadium. The are to the north of the stadium seems like the most likely location based on all that we've gathered in this forum (including your 3rd point).

I would say that it's not beyond the realm of engineering for a cantilevered structure. My first idea (not saying that I came up with it first) for the structure rising out of the canals would actually form a triangle (I should really try to sketch out what my idea is).

I have 2 worries though (the first relates specifically to the canal idea):

1) The canals are actually quite far from the stadium (based on aerial photos). That would require quite a large structure for it to be visible in the stadium, and especially if you want something to cantilever down into the stadium.

2) The network of wires above the stadium is quite restrictive. Based on the panoramic photo you provided (thanks for that!), I can say that the stage at the north end will not be able to rise up to the edge of the roof. You can see a large bundle of wires above the stage in the panorama.

Also, I agree that the pods to the north are probably some cover-up. They're standing right on the location of the supposed gas lines. Can't be a coincidence (I guess it could be, but where would be the fun in that?).

I'll try to draw up a sketch of my cantilevered cauldron canal structure this weekend (Warning: I am not a good artist, and the drawings will most likely be horrible and may cause you permanent brain damage. You've been warned.)

P.S. Paul65, my name is also Paul (haven't mentioned it before, though). This may get confusing when reading the forums from now on. :P

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Does anybody thing that the cauldron will look anything like the one cauldron being used for the torch relay?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daseiserneskreuz/7310383854/

I know that the cauldron for the relay seldom if ever resembles the cauldron during the games, but is there a chance that London will break with tradition??

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Thanks for the welcome AustralianFan and bra'tac. I just happened to notice in the image below that there appears to be a new 'ledge' added to the rim of the roof. It isn't visible in the Hi Rez panoramic image from the 2012 hours to go event a month ago so must be a recent addition. Question is whether it has some alignment with the 'stage' under it and then what bearing that might have on things.

That small circular podium in the Northern stands, as shown below, reminds me of the one that rose vertically upwards during the Sydney Closing Ceremony and brought Nikki Webster up and close to the Cauldron.

If the London Cauldron structure was outside the Stadium, or even cantilevered from outside the northern end of the stadium and 'floating' over and above the centre of the stadium (see Paul65's post), then in these cases the final torchbearer is probably going to have to be in an elevated position in order to light it directly or some sort of fuse device leading to it.

The gaps in the flying wires network appear to be bigger at the outer edge of the stadium, ie possibly directly above that stage in the northern stands just in front of the jumbotron and scoreboard.

croppedzoomedjhinsidestadium.jpg

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Hi bra'tac/Paul

I'm not sure but the pods may be a gas line red herring. Having taken a look on Google Earth I counted six of them around the stadium.

I'm not wedded to the idea but the cantilevered option over the roof from outside seems most likely.

A friend of mine who did the bus tour in Sept 2010 said that the cauldron would be between the four floodlight gantries (in the 11, 12, 1 and 2 o'clock positions - orientating 12 o'clock at the lighting gantry on the North end of the stadium. Then the press will sit facing it and to the left of it. Some members of the public will have to sit under and alongside it to the right, so they won't get decent pics of it - then again that was the case in Beijing too.

Question is would they have settled on the location in Sept 2010 before they had appointed Heatherwick?

Interestingly I came across this 20 Feb 2011 article in The Architects' Journal

Designer Thomas Heatherwick is drawing up plans for the Olympic Cauldron centrepiece at the London 2012 Games

The cauldron, which will house the Olympic torch throughout the event, will break from traditional and be built outside the main stadium, on a plot just north of the arena (see attachments).

The tower will be between 70m-150m tall and be visible inside the Populous-designed stadium.

According to statements made back in 2009, the flame will be fuelled by waste/sustainable wood.

A spokesman for the Heatherwick Studio said: ‘Thomas Heatherwick is really excited to have been asked to be part of this critical piece of London’s 2012 Olympics.’

Heatherwick’s much-acclaimed Shanghai Expo Pavilion is currently shortlisted for a Brit Insurance Design Award. His redesigned London Routemaster bus is also expected to start operation before the 2012 Games.

The cauldron is not expected to be revealed until the opening day of the Games on 27 July 2012

Also, I agree that the pods to the north are probably some cover-up. They're standing right on the location of the supposed gas lines. Can't be a coincidence (I guess it could be, but where would be the fun in that?).

I'll try to draw up a sketch of my cantilevered cauldron canal structure this weekend (Warning: I am not a good artist, and the drawings will most likely be horrible and may cause you permanent brain damage. You've been warned.)

P.S. Paul65, my name is also Paul (haven't mentioned it before, though). This may get confusing when reading the forums from now on. :P

Just to clarify - the press would look over to the left to see it. They'd actually be sitting to the right of the cauldron of it were to be where the bus tour said it would be. Sorry if I confused anyone.

A friend of mine who did the bus tour in Sept 2010 said that the cauldron would be between the four floodlight gantries (in the 11, 12, 1 and 2 o'clock positions - orientating 12 o'clock at the lighting gantry on the North end of the stadium. Then the press will sit facing it and to the left of it. Some members of the public will have to sit under and alongside it to the right, so they won't get decent pics of it - then again that was the case in Beijing too.

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Very interesting information, Paul. Thanks and welcome!

Two questions:

1) So did they talk about a cauldron tower outside the stadium on that bus tour or about a cauldron sitting on the stadium's roof? If the latter is the case, the position you describe probably is the one near the bridge in the northeast of the stadium, between that row of four catering pods in the north east and the block eight catering pods in the north.

2) Are you a subscriber to the Architects' Journal? It's because I can't open that article, only subscribers can do that. I was curious about the attachments they mention in the article. However, very interesting information as well -- even if there are two strange things in it: First, they mention a height of the cauldron between 70 and 150 metres, which is a strangely huge span. But at least now I know where that information came from about a cauldron tower being 150 metres high -- I picked that up in the SkycraperCity forum last year. ;) 150 metres is huge, though, and not very realistic.

And the second strange thing is that they say that the cauldron won't be unveiled before the Games' opening day. So how does one want to hide a big tower unless it's built on opening day itself or is hidden in the ground?

I also have some doubts about the flame fuelled by wood. How do they want to manage that? They would have to constantly put wood in the cauldron's bowl. Highly improbable. Gas has the advantage that you can stream it automatically into the bowl and that it has a constant flow, therefore creating a constantly big flame.

1) So did they talk about a cauldron tower outside the stadium on that bus tour or about a cauldron sitting on the stadium's roof? If the latter is the case, the position you describe probably is the one near the bridge in the northeast of the stadium, between that row of four catering pods in the north east and the block eight catering pods in the north.

Here's the picture I actually wanted to post with that:

JasonHawkes-3244_xlarge.jpg

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(another in our series of 'suspicious photos', lol):

Just wondering what those objects are on the barge in the canal at the northern end of the Jason Hawkes photo just posted by Olympian2004 ? I blew up the photo below but not much help. Maybe comepletely unrelated to the Cauldron or it's supporting structure. Could be some sort of props or lighting or catering equipment? or the first delivery of some sort of Cauldron related structure?

CanalobjectsJasonHawkes-3244_xlarge.jpg

Edited by AustralianFan
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The tower is such an eyesore that Zeus should throw a lighting bolt at it and burn it to the ground before the Games get underway. That's the only type of 'Olympic fire' worthy of that mess.

Here, here. Most eyesores get easier on the eye everytime you see them - but this tower of junk just seems to get worse.

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I think those pods are definitely a coverup. There's no good reason to have them grouped that way. It would create serious foot traffic problems if they stayed there. Between the photos and the articles, I'm ready to say that's where the cauldron will be.

How they will erect it so quickly and keep it a surprise (much less light it) I have NO idea. The suspense is fun though.

Something is definitely happening with that barge too...

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I think those pods are definitely a coverup. There's no good reason to have them grouped that way. It would create serious foot traffic problems if they stayed there. Between the photos and the articles, I'm ready to say that's where the cauldron will be.

This is what was under the pod....

The strange thing is that now the 2 pods are jointed !

view3.jpg

But their location do not cause pedestrian traffic problems.

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When you look at all of them together, I really think they do create a traffic problem. Those pods will sell food and/or souvenirs, right? When you look at one of the pictures showing the whole stadium, there are too many pods grouped too closely together. By the time people are forming queues and trying to navigate through the area I think it would be a total traffic jam if they left it the way it is now.

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The circular stage under the jumbotron, the ledge off the rim of the roof, the triangular light structure - they all seemed to be aligned to a greater purpose. Perhaps the shaft struture on the stage is a lift transporting the final torchbearer up to the ledge stage. He then touch the light triangle which somehow beam the flame to the cauldron tower outside?? As far fetched as I can imagine! :P

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When you look at all of them together, I really think they do create a traffic problem. Those pods will sell food and/or souvenirs, right? When you look at one of the pictures showing the whole stadium, there are too many pods grouped too closely together. By the time people are forming queues and trying to navigate through the area I think it would be a total traffic jam if they left it the way it is now.

I have been one of ours saying those pods could be fake ones hiding something... but what we saw under them before their construction bring me doubts !

Regarding access and traffic, this is something I pretty know well, and I'm still confirming that how things are organized here work well !

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I have my doubts about anything going there.

A cauldron on that location would have to be really tall; definitely taller than Torino's because London's stadium's floodlights reach so high up towards the sky that a structure behind them would have to be considerably taller in order to be seen from the inside of the stadium and look prominent enough as well.

And such a structure would require a sizable foundation to support it. Again, look at the big hole Torino had to dig up in order to hold its cauldron tower's foundation. With over a month and a half left until they begin on-site rehearsals, there is no evidence that a foundation for a tall structure is being built in that area. We see some minor activity but nothing to suggest that anything big is being built from the ground up.

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When you look at all of them together, I really think they do create a traffic problem. Those pods will sell food and/or souvenirs, right? When you look at one of the pictures showing the whole stadium, there are too many pods grouped too closely together. By the time people are forming queues and trying to navigate through the area I think it would be a total traffic jam if they left it the way it is now.

Those pods are huge. They are almost like a large shop or a mini warehouse. Wouldn't think they will operate like a concession stalls where people queue outside. The sheer size and depth of it means spectators can actually queue inside and perhaps have seatings as well.

Makes me think why do they build such large pods. It makes the theory of them as a disguise to store/ construct cauldron parts plausible.

I have my doubts about anything going there.

A cauldron on that location would have to be really tall; definitely taller than Torino's because London's stadium's floodlights reach so high up towards the sky that a structure behind them would have to be considerably taller in order to be seen from the inside of the stadium and look prominent enough as well.

And such a structure would require a sizable foundation to support it. Again, look at the big hole Torino had to dig up in order to hold its cauldron tower's foundation. With over a month and a half left until they begin on-site rehearsals, there is no evidence that a foundation for a tall structure is being built in that area. We see some minor activity but nothing to suggest that anything big is being built from the ground up.

Perhaps the ledge on the roof rim acts as a support platform for Heatherwicks cauldron sculpture? That looks like a perfect location to me to be seen by almost all without being too close to the roof light clutters. The triangular light structure actually frames that ledge quite well if a cauldron is placed there.

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So London organizers somehow got word that a private aircraft was on its way to snap pictures and stopped whatever they were building and ran to put those pods in place to hide their work?

I doubt it, unless they're building at night and easily slide those huge pods over every single morning like its nothing.

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I don't think the cauldron will be on the roof. It isn't strong enough. It's NOT on the Orbit (for reasons already well documented). It's not going to be way off in the distance somewhere in the park. Its not going to be in the middle if the field. Adrianme has confirmed it is not located on either of the temporary stages. We're running out of options.

All the construction/preparation we've seen runs along that north/south axis. The article cites that northern location and says the cauldron could be 150m tall. There are gaslines there. I admit there are still some question marks, but I am persuaded by process of elimination that the cauldron will be just outside the stadium to the north.

I will humbly eat my words if I am wrong -- and I could well be, but at this point it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

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I think those pods are definitely a coverup. There's no good reason to have them grouped that way. It would create serious foot traffic problems if they stayed there. Between the photos and the articles, I'm ready to say that's where the cauldron will be.

How they will erect it so quickly and keep it a surprise (much less light it) I have NO idea. The suspense is fun though.

Something is definitely happening with that barge too...

I couldn't agree with you more. Why would they have the pods so closely grouped, when there is space around other parts of the stadium, very fishy indeed!

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I couldn't agree with you more. Why would they have the pods so closely grouped, when there is space around other parts of the stadium, very fishy indeed!

What more space around the stadium? They have pods all around it.

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Igniting Olympic Cauldrons

Since the first Cauldron was lit at Amsterdam 1928, there appears to be six ways of igniting Olympic Cauldrons:

  1. Direct Contact - the torchbearer holds the flaming torch in direct in contact with the Cauldron's gas or other fuel source (eg Athens 2004, Nagano 1998, Lillehammer 1994, Calgary 1988, Sarajevo 1984, Lake Placid 1980, Innsbruck 1976, Montreal 1976, Munich 1972, Sapporo 1972, Mexcio City 1968, Grenoble 1968, Tokyo 1964, Innsbruck 1964, Rome 1960, Squaw Valley 1960, Melbourne 1956, Cortina d'Ampezzo 1956, Stockholm Equestrian Games 1956, Helsinki 1952, Oslo 1952, London 1948, 1948 St Moritz, Berlin 1936)
  2. Direct Contact with Gas Bubbles on Water Surface - the torchbearer holds the flame near the surface of the water and the gas bubbles ignite coming up from the Cauldron which is under water (Sydney 2000)
  3. Secondary Flying Device - the flame is first transferred to a device which is then propelled freely through the air to the Cauldron then igniting it's gas (Barcelona 1992)
  4. Secondary Fixed Line Mobile Device - the flame is first transferred onto a mechanical device which then travels mechanically along a fixed line to the Cauldron then igniting it's gas (eg Atlanta 1996, Albertville 1992)
  5. Secondary Pyrotechnics Fuse - the flame first ignites an extended pyrotechnics fuse which then travels up and ignites the Cauldron's gas (eg Beijing 2008, Torino 2006)
  6. Secondary Fuel Pathway - lighting a pathway of 'fuel' which then travels up and ignites the Cauldron's gas (eg Vancouver 2010, Salt Lake City 2002, Los Angeles 1984, Moscow 1980, -Los Angeles 1932-?- ).

London 2012: .......?

Note: some of the earlier Cauldrons 'appear' very smokey and may have had a fuel source other than gas. Amsterdam's Summer Games of 1928 was "just ignited" somehow as the Torch Relay had not been introduced at at that stage.

Would appreciate any corrections and/or extra info as some of this info has been hard to gather.

Edited by AustralianFan
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