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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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Just taking that idea a bit further ...

If the smaller circular stage structure also doubles as an elevator to take the final torchbearer up to the stadium roof to either then ignite a fuse to the Cauldron, or indeed be "flown" herself or himself to the actual Cauldron, the question then is in which direction ?

It's a feasible that the final torchbearer or even the Cauldron ignition fuse would most likely easily fit through the network of overwhead flying wires above the arena. Also such a lifting mechanism then is itself removed after the Opening Ceremony and frees up viewing access to the Scoreboard and Jumbrotron behind it.

That Northern end of the the stands is also the same end where that planning document had gaslines planned for just outside the Stadium.

But no hole in the ground has appeared yet that we can see, unless it has been disguised cleverly by those retail pods or marquee things. It is temptingly close though to that outside location ....

rttg.jpg

Edited by AustralianFan
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OK, idea for how they will light at least ONE cauldron. In the foto taken last August, there was a little ramp which had a globe which rolled down the ramp. (So, yes, apparently, it was ceremonial testing then.)

Look at that ramp leading to the center hole /\/\/\. So it looks like, one of those zorbs will be lit at the south end of the ramp. The lit zorb will then meet a cauldron rising from the center hole. (Frankly, the whole sequence doesn't sound all that exciting to me.)

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Just a crazy idea, and sorry if this has been discussed yet, but isn't it a bit unusual to have the world's biggest bell only to ring it once? What if that thing turns over just before it's lit? As I said, just a crazy idea.

You crazy SOB, I was just wondering about that myself! Technically, I think it's too difficult, but a cool idea.

Anyone else looking at these photos and keep getting that nagging feeling that we're missing something?

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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been trying to read up on all the speculation so far on the cauldron design (there's a lot in this forum and others, so I apologize if I get something wrong), and I was just thinking to myself: "If I wanted to build a tall tower for the cauldron (if indeed there will be a tower), have it remain hidden, and appear during the OC in some dramatic fashion, where would I put it?"

I thought I was the first to think of this, but it turns out Citizen-Seth (from a late April post) beat me to it. The stadium is surrounded on three sides by a modified waterway to create the Stadium Island. If I wanted something spectacular and surprising, I'd have the tower rise up from the water. Whether the cauldron would already be on the tower or would make its way to the top of the tower somehow is another debate. Personally, I would love it if the cauldron could first be seen by EVERYONE in the stadium (not even Beijing accomplished that), then it somehow gets up to the tower/permanent location for everyone outside.

Now I'm just going to throw out two "out there" ideas. The "tower" could use a similar mechanism as Heatherwick's rolling bridge, meeting another "tower" halfway up, creating an arch over the footpaths. Or running with the arch over footpaths idea, the base could be triangular in shape, each side rising from the water and meeting to create a triangle that may even lean toward the stadium (the hypotenuse is the waterway in this instance).

Unfortunately, the audience in the stadium wouldn't see the tower rising out of the water. As much as I love the idea, it doesn't seem dramatic enough to just see that happen on the jumbo screen in the stadium and only see the top appear above the lights after it's been rising up for a while.

As an engineer, I want to see an ingenious mechanism for the cauldron and tower. As a filmmaker, I want the cauldron lighting to be dramatic and elegant. Sydeny's OC came close to achieving a good balance, but the technical difficulties made it feel too mechanical. Athens' was elegant, but a bit too simple for my taste. Beijing was too drawn out (the running in the air part) and wasn't a "good show" for the TV audience compared to the stadium audience. I hope London can achieve as near-perfect a cauldron lighting as possible, and Heatherwick seems like the man to do that.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been trying to read up on all the speculation so far on the cauldron design (there's a lot in this forum and others, so I apologize if I get something wrong), and I was just thinking to myself: "If I wanted to build a tall tower for the cauldron (if indeed there will be a tower), have it remain hidden, and appear during the OC in some dramatic fashion, where would I put it?"

I thought I was the first to think of this, but it turns out Citizen-Seth (from a late April post) beat me to it. The stadium is surrounded on three sides by a modified waterway to create the Stadium Island. If I wanted something spectacular and surprising, I'd have the tower rise up from the water. Whether the cauldron would already be on the tower or would make its way to the top of the tower somehow is another debate. Personally, I would love it if the cauldron could first be seen by EVERYONE in the stadium (not even Beijing accomplished that), then it somehow gets up to the tower/permanent location for everyone outside.

Now I'm just going to throw out two "out there" ideas. The "tower" could use a similar mechanism as Heatherwick's rolling bridge, meeting another "tower" halfway up, creating an arch over the footpaths. Or running with the arch over footpaths idea, the base could be triangular in shape, each side rising from the water and meeting to create a triangle that may even lean toward the stadium (the hypotenuse is the waterway in this instance).

Unfortunately, the audience in the stadium wouldn't see the tower rising out of the water. As much as I love the idea, it doesn't seem dramatic enough to just see that happen on the jumbo screen in the stadium and only see the top appear above the lights after it's been rising up for a while.

As an engineer, I want to see an ingenious mechanism for the cauldron and tower. As a filmmaker, I want the cauldron lighting to be dramatic and elegant. Sydeny's OC came close to achieving a good balance, but the technical difficulties made it feel too mechanical. Athens' was elegant, but a bit too simple for my taste. Beijing was too drawn out (the running in the air part) and wasn't a "good show" for the TV audience compared to the stadium audience. I hope London can achieve as near-perfect a cauldron lighting as possible, and Heatherwick seems like the man to do that.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

I also mentioned that too, btw welcome!

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Boring idea - but does anybody know if the cauldron from 1948 is still in existence? Perhaps London could - to some capacity - be considering an Innsbruck?

Yes greenandblue! It´s based at Wembley.

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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been trying to read up on all the speculation so far on the cauldron design (there's a lot in this forum and others, so I apologize if I get something wrong), and I was just thinking to myself: "If I wanted to build a tall tower for the cauldron (if indeed there will be a tower), have it remain hidden, and appear during the OC in some dramatic fashion, where would I put it?"

I thought I was the first to think of this, but it turns out Citizen-Seth (from a late April post) beat me to it. The stadium is surrounded on three sides by a modified waterway to create the Stadium Island. If I wanted something spectacular and surprising, I'd have the tower rise up from the water. Whether the cauldron would already be on the tower or would make its way to the top of the tower somehow is another debate. Personally, I would love it if the cauldron could first be seen by EVERYONE in the stadium (not even Beijing accomplished that), then it somehow gets up to the tower/permanent location for everyone outside.

Now I'm just going to throw out two "out there" ideas. The "tower" could use a similar mechanism as Heatherwick's rolling bridge, meeting another "tower" halfway up, creating an arch over the footpaths. Or running with the arch over footpaths idea, the base could be triangular in shape, each side rising from the water and meeting to create a triangle that may even lean toward the stadium (the hypotenuse is the waterway in this instance).

Unfortunately, the audience in the stadium wouldn't see the tower rising out of the water. As much as I love the idea, it doesn't seem dramatic enough to just see that happen on the jumbo screen in the stadium and only see the top appear above the lights after it's been rising up for a while.

As an engineer, I want to see an ingenious mechanism for the cauldron and tower. As a filmmaker, I want the cauldron lighting to be dramatic and elegant. Sydeny's OC came close to achieving a good balance, but the technical difficulties made it feel too mechanical. Athens' was elegant, but a bit too simple for my taste. Beijing was too drawn out (the running in the air part) and wasn't a "good show" for the TV audience compared to the stadium audience. I hope London can achieve as near-perfect a cauldron lighting as possible, and Heatherwick seems like the man to do that.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

I like this idea, but if the cauldron is to be hidden right now, wouldn't we have seen something going on in the river by now?

But it would be an awesome sight to see a cauldron rising out of the water, and hanging over the stadium.

I'm also starting to think the idea of the "perfect lighting" isn't possible. Sydney's was near perfect, except for the mechanical glitches. Athens was elegant but not dramatic enough, and Beijing's wasn't visible to everybody in the stadium and as it's been said before, it dragged on. I think we've got to figure out what will fit with the flavor or taste of the London Ceremony, which of course we won't know until July 27, probably not until the moment the torch comes into the stadium.

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How do they want to hide an about 60 or 70-metres-tall cauldron in those canals? Furthermore, how do they want to prevent it getting rusty or at least muddy before it rises up during the opening ceremony?

No, it's impossible.

But in the end, it's getting more and more mysterious where the cauldron will be. Even an internal cauldron at the northern end of the stadium must probably be ruled out because there's the stage now -- and I don't expect a cauldron to rise from there due to the screen.

A cauldron in the centre field is possible for the opening ceremony itself, but not practical for the rest of the Games. So the cauldron had to be transferred elsewhere anyway. Furthermore, I still think that that stage isn't high enough to hide an even only slightly impressive cauldron.

A cauldron tower at the original location (north of the stadium) is also almost impossible -- unless they're hiding its location by a fake catering pod, but I doubt that.

The Orbit won't be the cauldron for all the reasons mentioned.

So where will it be then?

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I think a cauldron coming out from water would remain inmediately Sydney´s ligthing. This image is too fresh in our memories to do that just two version after the first time. I don't like the idea of an internal cauldron like Seoul '88. I think this time cauldron has not deal with water to be ignited. After Sydney we have seen many cauldron on the water: Rio 2007 Pan American Games, the cauldron was a sun cirsular shape rolling on a waterfall, Special Olympics in Shangai, also in 2007, was a ring shape cauldron into the water, YOG Singapore cauldron, too...

A firework display have been seen many ocations so far (Athens Paralympics, Torino 2006, Guangzhou Asian Games)

For me on the best lighting ever was just made by "man force" with the arrow in Barcelona 1992. Epic!!!!

In Athens the cauldron has the torch shape in giant. Beijing was something similar, scrolled paper as the torch, and in Guadalajara Panamerican Games, the main cauldron at Omnilife Stadium was a cauldron version of the torch...

So far, one the most elegant cauldron desing for me is Salt Lake one!!!!

web_cauldron_wlogo.jpg

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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been trying to read up on all the speculation so far on the cauldron design (there's a lot in this forum and others, so I apologize if I get something wrong), and I was just thinking to myself: "If I wanted to build a tall tower for the cauldron (if indeed there will be a tower), have it remain hidden, and appear during the OC in some dramatic fashion, where would I put it?"

I thought I was the first to think of this, but it turns out Citizen-Seth (from a late April post) beat me to it. The stadium is surrounded on three sides by a modified waterway to create the Stadium Island. If I wanted something spectacular and surprising, I'd have the tower rise up from the water. Whether the cauldron would already be on the tower or would make its way to the top of the tower somehow is another debate. Personally, I would love it if the cauldron could first be seen by EVERYONE in the stadium (not even Beijing accomplished that), then it somehow gets up to the tower/permanent location for everyone outside.

Now I'm just going to throw out two "out there" ideas. The "tower" could use a similar mechanism as Heatherwick's rolling bridge, meeting another "tower" halfway up, creating an arch over the footpaths. Or running with the arch over footpaths idea, the base could be triangular in shape, each side rising from the water and meeting to create a triangle that may even lean toward the stadium (the hypotenuse is the waterway in this instance).

Unfortunately, the audience in the stadium wouldn't see the tower rising out of the water. As much as I love the idea, it doesn't seem dramatic enough to just see that happen on the jumbo screen in the stadium and only see the top appear above the lights after it's been rising up for a while.

As an engineer, I want to see an ingenious mechanism for the cauldron and tower. As a filmmaker, I want the cauldron lighting to be dramatic and elegant. Sydeny's OC came close to achieving a good balance, but the technical difficulties made it feel too mechanical. Athens' was elegant, but a bit too simple for my taste. Beijing was too drawn out (the running in the air part) and wasn't a "good show" for the TV audience compared to the stadium audience. I hope London can achieve as near-perfect a cauldron lighting as possible, and Heatherwick seems like the man to do that.

P.S. Sorry for the long post.

Welcome aboard as Bra'tac :) I absolutely love the theatrics of your idea. We can deal with the engeering practicalities afterwards and as an engineer, you are well qualified to assess the ideas put forward on this thread by different fans.

Following your idea, if the Cauldron rose up on a structure from the canal unlit, and viewed on the jumbotron by the stadium audience in these initial stages, and remained unlit until it reached its full height above the Stadium roof and then visible to most inside, the final torchbearer then ignites the fuse from inside the Stadium. The final torchbearer having been simultaneously lifted to Stadium roof level by a lifting mechanism, eg perhaps from the top of that small circular stage in the Northern stands.

Most of the stadium audience and those outside would witness the actual lighting sequence. It would not be a repeat of the fire and water themes of past Games since the Cauldron rose up unlit out of the water before it was lit - water was simply its disguise. As you said the stadium audience wouldn't feel part or close to it until the the structure rose up high enough to be seen and lit. They would however feel part of it from inside the Stadium as they would see in front of their own eyes the torchbearer being lifted to the ignition position from inside the stadium. The jumbotron would provide the simulatenous viewing of the structure rising up out of the canal until visible by the stadium audience.

The question is, engineerin is it feasible to protect the structure in a waterproof compartment under the surface of the canal for a significant period of time pre-Games?

I broke the bank almost and took my elderly energetic Olympic fan Mum to Sydney's Games (who would get ahead of me sometimes) with her walking stick and her dodgy hips (months later, both hips replaced), and we both loved it form begining to end. She always said it was one of the best times of her life and the fanstastic volunteers took her under their wing, with me supporting the 'star', lol, in tow at each venue. It was a 2.5 hours train ride every second day in and out of Sydney to attend the Games from our caravan park in Moss Vale, 3 hours from central Sydney. Food, drinks, backpacks and folding stools loaded in my backpack for us, but we had such a good time that it felt weightless. At aged 80 & weeks after her big birthday bash, we lost her a few days before Christmas last year. This week I've flown from Melbourne to Perth when this morning at 10am we're laying her ashes to rest (first time I could get the family in one spot since). Last night while sorting through her stuff, I found her yellow Opening Ceremony schoolcase that all audience members got at Sydney's OC on their seat. Mum would have loved your visonary idea and also the passion and creativity of the other posters on this thread as well.

Best regards guys, Philip

Edited by AustralianFan
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I broke the bank almost and took my elderly energetic Olympic fan Mum to Sydney's Games (who would get ahead of me sometimes) with her walking stick and her dodgy hips (months later, both hips replaced), and we both loved it form begining to end. She always said it was one of the best times of her life and the fanstastic volunteers took her under their wing, with me supporting the 'star', lol, in tow at each venue. It was a 2.5 hours train ride every second day in and out of Sydney to attend the Games from our caravan park in Moss Vale, 3 hours from central Sydney. Food, drinks, backpacks and folding stools loaded in my backpack for us, but we had such a good time that it felt weightless. At aged 80 & weeks after her big birthday bash, we lost her a few days before Christmas last year. This week I've flown from Melbourne to Perth when this morning at 10am we're laying her ashes to rest (first time I could get the family in one spot since). Last night while sorting through her stuff, I found her yellow Opening Ceremony schoolcase that all audience members got at Sydney's OC on their seat. Mum would have loved your visonary idea and the passion and creativity of the other posters on this thread as well.

Best regards guys, Philip

Thanks for sharing that, Mate. It was a wonderful and touching remembrance, and it brought me to tears (still sniffling as I write this). I lost my Mum, who was living in Mittagong just up from Mossie, just a few years back and I remember how proud and emotional and excited she was during the 2000 games. She never went (she never liked leaving the house much), but I remember her ringing me right after the Opening Ceremony on actually crying in emotion herself, and so happy and proud for Cathy Freeman. Sigh! My sincere condolences - our Mums will always be in our hearts!

Edited by Sir Rols
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Thanks for sharing your story AustralianFan. The OC in Sydney really created a memorable moment, with the whole OC not just the cauldron, that I think no one will ever forget.

In regards to the feasibility of the cauldron/tower rising from the canals, here are my thoughts from what a few people brought up:

  • I don't know the depth of the canals, but the water doesn't seem very clear (looking at pictures and Google Maps), so that seems to be perfect for masking something. As long as the canal is at least 3 to 4 meters deep, divers could easily work under the cover of water. And since they've locked down the area recently (if I recall correctly), it provides the perfect opportunity to move into place.
  • We don't need to see any commotion around the canals yet. If they really want to keep a secret, they would float the tower in pieces underwater to the correct location. No one would be the wiser that the tower could be travelling in the river. Assembling structures underwater isn't unheard of, but it is trickier and more expensive than assembling on land. If the tower is prefabricated and tested off-site, they could conceivably assemble it the week of the OC, run last minute checks on it, and it's good to go.
  • There are plenty of ways to protect metal from water for long enough. If the correct material and coating are chosen, the tower could be already sitting in the canal just waiting for the OC.
  • Dirt is the main problem I can think of. The longer the tower sits underwater, the more gunk will build up on it. And since the canal looks pretty dirty to begin with, dirt would build up quite quickly.
  • A single pillar cauldron would probably be quite small based on the length of the canals (once you account for bridges being in the way). That why I'm thinking beyond one pillar. And even if it is one pillar, it could be telescoping.

The possibilities are beyond imagination for hiding the cauldron in the canals, and the technology exists already. And the possibilities are similarly beyond imagination for other locations.

I say if they do everything right, they could potentially keep everything secret, and we wouldn't known anything until the OC. That's what I'm hoping for.

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It's a nice idea (an even better one if it took place inside the stadium on the supposed/rumored/alleged moat), but the size of those two pillars (or even just one) would have to be huge in order to be seen from the inside the stadium. Any cauldron structure built outside the stadium would have to sizably taller than Torino's because London's stadium's floodlights reach so high up into the air above the roof. But there's not enough space in those canals which are bridged over many times by spectators pathways for such big a structure.

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What if the cauldron wasn't stationary? Like what if it were something that could be moved about from place to place through out the Games? Yes, Day 1 it is at the Olympic Stadium. Day 2 it is at Trafalgar Square. Day 3 it is at Tower Bridge. Day 4 it is at Hyde Park. Day 5 it is on a barge on the Thames. Day 6 it is Greenwich Park. And so on. After all, we are in a mobile world...and the Brits do love their mobiles. ;)

Looking at Heatherwick's designs from previous projects, a lot of them have that compact, chunky (although dynamic) aspect to them like the B of the Bang and the UK Pavilion. Not the tall, sleek tower style that most of us have come to expect in our Olympic Cauldrons (like Salt Lake and Athens).

I think the most critical thing for the lighting of any cauldron is that it be viewed by everyone in the stadium, especially the athletes. That creates an atmosphere and excitement that spills out through to the large global television audience. If you look at Torino, for example, the cauldron being detached and outside of the stadium also made the lighting seem detached and outside from the ceremony and the audience (including the athletes). Even with Vancouver's muck up, the focal point of the flame lighting was down and to the center of the stadium, which, when it comes right down to it, is the way stadiums are designed. Everyone was facing it and they didn't have to turn their heads or strain their necks.

Another thing to consider that was very apparent with the Vancouver flame is that people very much want to congregate near the flame and get their picture taken with it. If it is locked away in a stadium or on the top of a tower somewhere, that isn't always easy. Even with the misstep of that ugly fence, the Vancouver flame was very accessible to the masses in the streets. LOCOG observers made a note of that. You may not have had a ticket to an event, but you could still get close enough to the Olympic flame to feel its heat and snap a photo for your Facebook profile. You couldn't really do that in Beijing, Torino or Athens.

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Has anyone taken a look at the venue seating plans for both the Opening Ceremony and Athletics?

Opening Ceremony: http://www.london2012.com/mm/Document/Documents/Venue/01/24/17/29/KDVENUESTAOpeningCeremony_Neutral.pdf

Athletics: http://www.london2012.com/mm/Document/Documents/Venue/01/24/17/14/KDVENUESTAAthletics_Neutral.pdf

They don't appear to be plugging the seating gap by Block 121 for the Athelitcs. Could this mean that whatever they're building the stage for at this end of the stadium, be it the bell, cauldron or something else, will stay there for the duration of the Games?

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