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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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One thing which can be said with near-certainty is that Atopia have acted with anything but class in this matter. They have been manipulative and devious from the start- and it turns out that "the start" means 2006, when they took advantage of the fact that LOCOG's design principal Kevin Owens had been a student of Atopia's David Turnbull, so throughout the two years when Atopia were bidding for LOCOG work, there was an informal (and informative) correspondence between them. If other bidders were not copied in on information supplied to Atopia in this correspondence, and Atopia had won any contracts, there would have been grounds for legal action by other bidders, and disciplinary action against Owens.

No fair- the petals were allocated at random, so the US got one big one and one little one.

No fair- the petals were allocated at random, so the US got one big one and one little one.

What I was driving at was, were the Paralympic petals smaller than the regular "O" ones? Becuz when they all 'clumped' up, they had to be of the same size, didn't they?

More: https://vantage2012.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/the-guardian-covers-more-olympic-ceremony-skulduggery/

That's the problem when giving it to first-timers like Danny Boyle. Yeah, settling was the best thing because that's what all Atopia wanted anyway - formal acknowledgement that their designs were received. And it's hoped this whole thing will go away just as the Liquidators of LOCOG will soon. Except it sort of sets a landmark case in IP/plagiarism cases.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

One thing which can be said with near-certainty is that Atopia have acted with anything but class in this matter.

No fair- the petals were allocated at random, so the US got one big one and one little one.

-didn't the countries names get stamped or engraved on the petrels....why did I think that?

-we'll Atopia could have justifiably said Hetherwick stole the idea which they never specifically rubbed in his face. (Hetherwick was very happy to act all along like this was his unique idea)

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-didn't the countries names get stamped or engraved on the petrels....why did I think that?

-we'll Atopia could have justifiably said Hetherwick stole the idea which they never specifically rubbed in his face. (Hetherwick was very happy to act all along like this was his unique idea)

Yes, the names were engraved on the rim of the PETALS...not pretzels! ;)

No; no one had to articulate that Heatherwick "stole" the idea. By crying "foul;" that was enough to implicate TH. And it was up to the neutral observer to connect the dots.

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What I was driving at was, were the Paralympic petals smaller than the regular "O" ones? Becuz when they all 'clumped' up, they had to be of the same size, didn't they?

The petals for both cauldrons were in the same range of sizes, because they had to fill the same range of space between stems:

cauldron.jpg

Above: Olympic. Below: Paralympic.

_62724397_cauldron_1500mt54_getty.jpg

-didn't the countries names get stamped or engraved on the petrels....why did I think that?

Cruelty to lovely seabirds!

Yes, the countries' names were engraved on the petals- but there was no specified relationship between countries and petals until the engraving was done.

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_62724397_cauldron_1500mt54_getty.jpg

Cruelty to lovely seabirds!

Yes, the countries' names were engraved on the petals- but there was no specified relationship between countries and petals until the engraving was done.

:) oops!

That is a very cool picture of the para cauldron.

Makes sense the stamp came after......have to look if it's visible in any of the countries shots.

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That's the problem when giving it to first-timers like Danny Boyle. Yeah, settling was the best thing because that's what all Atopia wanted anyway - formal acknowledgement that their designs were received. And it's hoped this whole thing will go away just as the Liquidators of LOCOG will soon. Except it sort of sets a landmark case in IP/plagiarism cases.

The only possible problem in this context related to Danny Boyle was the probable subconscious memory (both for him and others working with him on Sunshine) of the Light Sleeper quilt. Although the liquidators' settlement sets some sort of a precedent, its likely effect may not be quite what Atopia hoped for. I would guess that, somewhere in the background, lots of smart legal and creative types are analysing what really happened, particularly in relation to the informal communications between Kevin Owens and David Turnbull. Expect a very rigidly-defined relationship between commissioners and would-be creative contractors in future mega-projects.

-we'll Atopia could have justifiably said Hetherwick stole the idea which they never specifically rubbed in his face. (Hetherwick was very happy to act all along like this was his unique idea)

Heatherwick still does act like it was his idea.

What Atopia did was very interesting (and, as I stated earlier, devious). First they announced their claim to the press, accompanied by the damning illustrations. Then they revealed that they hadn't shown the illustrations to anybody connected with LOCOG, and that they were specifically not accusing Heatherwick of plagiarism. As the Baron indicates, this left observers to join the dots, while removing any justification for legal action by Heatherwick, whose lawyers would almost certainly have raised even more problematic points than I did in By Strange Conveyance.

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Mr Snow...now that we have a bit of distance (2 plus years) on "that" opening ceremony did you find any parts misguided? I got the impression from the parts I read in your publication that you would justify every bit.....I may be wrong.

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Mr Snow...now that we have a bit of distance (2 plus years) on "that" opening ceremony did you find any parts misguided? I got the impression from the parts I read in your publication that you would justify every bit....

That's Tony E's job. Don't give Tony E any more rope to hang himself, Paul!! :lol:

My final note on this. Heatherwick and LOCOG were lucky in that this was an ephemeral cauldron (i.e., there is NOT huge permanent, working replica of it -- like other Olympic cauldrons. Had there been one, I am sure Atopia would've pressed for greater damages. (Not that they would've gotten more...but the evidence would be standing right there by the stadium for one and all to see everyday.) At least after 2012, it was just all a memory.

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My final note on this. Heatherwick and LOCOG were lucky in that this was an ephemeral cauldron (i.e., there is NOT huge permanent, working replica of it -- like other Olympic cauldrons. Had there been one, I am sure Atopia would've pressed for greater damages. (Not that they would've gotten more...but the evidence would be standing right there by the stadium for one and all to see everyday.) At least after 2012, it was just all a memory.

As Martijn's post yesterday hinted, the cauldron now has a substantial dedicated display in the Museum of London. :P

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Mr Snow...now that we have a bit of distance (2 plus years) on "that" opening ceremony did you find any parts misguided? I got the impression from the parts I read in your publication that you would justify every bit.....I may be wrong.

Well, I have previously indicated on GB that I think the "Thanks Tim" segment was over-ambitious to the point of insanity, and of course By Strange Conveyance does contain details of numerous bloopers. However, I still maintain that some GBers are missing (or rather, perhaps, dismissing) major thematic and structural elements, which make the whole thing much less random and more deeply meaningful than it superficially appears.

Which I keep meaning to pop in and see. Although I hear it's only a portion of it and the effect of the whole is created by mirrors, which is a shame.

I don't think it is a shame- it's a way of staying true to the notion of an ephemeral Cauldron, without losing it altogether.

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As Martijn's post yesterday hinted, the cauldron now has a substantial dedicated display in the Museum of London. :P

Is that a permanent display or a temporary one? But it's still not the same as if it had been kept whole and sat outside an Olympic Stadium as others have. What's just in the museum though is a mere reminder of the actual thing. That's my point. And that works in Heatherwick's favor rather than for Atopia. Or maybe that legal concept is just too much???

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Is that a permanent display or a temporary one? But it's still not the same as if it had been kept whole and sat outside an Olympic Stadium as others have. What's just in the museum though is a mere reminder of the actual thing. That's my point. And that works in Heatherwick's favor rather than for Atopia. Or maybe that legal concept is just too much???

The museum display is described as the Cauldron remnant's "new home" so it seems to be permanent (until the next time they discover some amazing Roman contraption while making the foundations of a vegetable-shaped skyscraper). Atopia have had about as much as they're likely to get from this now, except for the long-term effect on commissioning policies (which, as I suggested, may not be quite what they hoped for, and perhaps even not what any small creative enterprise would hope for- we could well get an Endemol effect).

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