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London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...


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Hi guys

I don’t wish to rekindle anything. So, don’t worry, what follows is quite the opposite.

What I think set off a poster here was that about a month before the Games I said I didn’t like the LA Cauldron.

I had posted photos of all the Cauldrons since 1928 at that time so we were exchanging opinions.

That poster’s response was immediate and direct. I think this was the begininng what has followed.

Stay calm. To that poster, I have since changed my mind (just didn't want to admit it to you, lol, just me being stubborn).

After your reply, I went back again and looked at photos of the 1932 and 1984 Cauldron set atop the art deco look of the LA Colleseum because I thought he feels very strongly about this, so something is behind that.

I 'quitely' concluded that you were dead right. That was as part of that era and the art deco and architecture look of the Los Angeles Stadium of 1932 and 1984, the Cauldron does fit in and I do like it now as part of the overall Stadium package.

If I offended you back then and since, I do sincerely apologise.

For the record also, it is not in my nature to get personal and I have always intended to concentrate on the message, not the messenger.

Yes I am persistent, and a stubborn Taurean. I don’t recall personally attacking anyone so if I come across that way or I have looked like a smart –ass or superior or haughty, or offended anyone in anyway I do sincerely apologise.

That has never been my intention and I do sincerely and humbly apologise for coming across like that.

I hate a smart-ass attitude as much as anyone and it horrifies me that I probably did come across like that at time as I stubbornly stuck to my position.

As mentioned previously, I am an ex-policeman and used to working on cold hard evidence, not emotion, although sometimes emotion can get in the way, for which I apologise and being direct or dismissive. Please understand it has never been the intention to be personal in being direct or dismissive.

I should never have used the large font in trying to defend the IOC Coordination Commission Chairman pitted against an unnamed rumour on ATR. I thought at the time here was a highly respected IOC Member being attacked by an unnamed rumour on a rival website and no-one there to defend him against what was an “unnamed rumour”,

Boy oh boy, was I wrong. That ATR rumour proved to be correct with London’s Cauldron only able to be seen by those within the Stadium. I don’t know if he actually said it but the substance of the ATR rumour proved to be 100% correct. To ATR, I also apologise. Using large font was even more embaressing so I’ll never do that again, even if I think I have the smoking gun evidence, lol.

This is the first time that I have debated in an ‘anonymous’ and kind of 'artificial' public debating forum like this when you are not face to face with the others you are interacting with - in fact hardly anyone shows their photos. That is entirely each person's own choice and for their own privacy and no need to justify.

I have learned a few things about it, some of the posters here and of myself, not the least being knowing when to admit when I am wrong and being more careful with the language I use when weighing up others’ opinions against any available evidence or probability scenarios.

Anyway, life is short, if ever any of you are in Melbourne, let me know and we can go out for a drink and have a good laugh about it. Talk about some of the funny things that have happened on this forum, and there have been many,

Best regards,

Philip

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What exactly has been the point of the last 160 pages, then? When did we cross the line into throwing away anything, potentially legitamate, anyone brings up in this thread simply because "it won't ma

The longer I see it "in action", I think that the idea behind the cauldron lighting and the design was extremely clever - but Heatherwick and Company completely failed in realising that the cauldron w

I don't quite understand your reasoning that the 2012 location is showing more people worldwide the cauldron that had it been located elsewhere (ie roofline of stadium etc). The cauldron is always a f

They have already gone with the copy cat like logo. So I bet the cauldron will be something similar to Sydney, Barcelona or Athens. You can tell a lot from a logo!

HJ, I know what it is like to have an olympic games change your life, it certainly happened for me, the spectator experience as a teenager in Sydney and as a volunteer changed my career objectives, my ambitions and crazily my understanding and faith in humanity.

I have only been to two olympics, some my experience is limited, but I was lucky to have the host city experience in both (living in vancouver/edmonton in the lead up to vancouver) and both experiences were amazing each of reasons different and similar and are inseparable for me.. These were amazing olympics, every olympics is amazing, has that spark, that is why we are all affected by it, sometimes in unique details we rant on, but mostly for a passion we all share..

The london olympics from afar, have been phenomenal and virtually organisationally flawless, exceptional atmosphere with beautiful and sustainable venues... There will never be an olympics like it, because London 2012 is a reflection of not only the UK in this unique moment in time but also to some small degree, a reflection of the planet as whole at this moment too.

The olympics are not the be all and end all, but as a global event at the bottom most rung of the ladder of world history they have become an important footnote that takes a quick snapshot of a nation and a planets' mood. This is why comparison on an overall level of a games for me is impossible, especially if one excludes their personal biases, they each make a statement they each stand for a different time. London's games will inspire a generation, just like sydney defined a city and country at the dawn of a new millennium or barcelona brought a nation and city on the world stage or vancouver that saw a country and people clear some cliches and push to be understood better in the world. Maybe other people think this is all wank, but for me this is the reason that the games rise above all the negative elements of their staging: abuse of public funds, doping and bribery.

I promise to keep my posts much shorter this week, but the short story is, London was great, but we always have try to keep our biases in check and (for me too) our criticisms relative, measured and not too nit picky. We don't always succeed, I definitely don't, especially in my head. I am not a seb coe, or a danny boyle, nor claim to be, these gifted people give us new olympics that each challenge what has gone before and challenge our thoughts of what an olympics can be....

Do I nit pick analyse and speak my mind, yes, but like everyone else here, I do it to better understand how I feel about these things, not to rubbish anyone or anything.

If I am ever lucky enough to ever be involved operationally in a OCOG or creatively in a ceremony, my choices will be a direct result of this process, if not, then they will stand as a pretentious example of my insane obsession with the olympics, to anyone who will listen...

My point after all this is, if I can start a topic accepting that the beautiful symbolism of heatherwick's cauldron could start a new trend in cauldron style, even if I don't know if I really like it, then I think everyone else can try to avoid rubbishing everything that has gone before in terms of logos and cauldrons as copying and uninspired.

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Australian Fan,

I sincerely thank you for your gracious post.

Although I was disappointed to hear you found LA's cauldron wanting, that did not motivate my recent posts.

I greatly appreciate the tone of your last post. I value your diplomatic efforts and your sincere attempt to understand me. I am happy to let bygones be bygones.

I concede I put more energy into this thread in the last day or so than I should have. I will do my best to dial down the intensity.

I wish you all the best.

Onwards and upwards.....

Athensfan

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HJ, I know what it is like to have an olympic games change your life, it certainly happened for me, the spectator experience as a teenager in Sydney and as a volunteer changed my career objectives, my ambitions and crazily my understanding and faith in humanity.

I have only been to two olympics, some my experience is limited, but I was lucky to have the host city experience in both (living in vancouver/edmonton in the lead up to vancouver) and both experiences were amazing each of reasons different and similar and are inseparable for me.. These were amazing olympics, every olympics is amazing, has that spark, that is why we are all affected by it, sometimes in unique details we rant on, but mostly for a passion we all share..

The london olympics from afar, have been phenomenal and virtually organisationally flawless, exceptional atmosphere with beautiful and sustainable venues... There will never be an olympics like it, because London 2012 is a reflection of not only the UK in this unique moment in time but also to some small degree, a reflection of the planet as whole at this moment too.

The olympics are not the be all and end all, but as a global event at the bottom most rung of the ladder of world history they have become an important footnote that takes a quick snapshot of a nation and a planets' mood. This is why comparison on an overall level of a games for me is impossible, especially if one excludes their personal biases, they each make a statement they each stand for a different time. London's games will inspire a generation, just like sydney defined a city and country at the dawn of a new millennium or barcelona brought a nation and city on the world stage or vancouver that saw a country and people clear some cliches and push to be understood better in the world. Maybe other think this is all wank, but for me this is the reason olympic games rises above all the negative elements of their staging: abuse of public funds, doping and bribery.

I promise to keep my posts much shorter this week, but the short story is, London was great, but we always have try to keep our biases in check and (for me too) our criticisms relative, measured and not too nit picky. We don't always succeed, I definitely don't, especially in my head. I am not a seb coe, or a danny boyle, nor claim to be, these gifted people give us new olympics that each challenge what has gone before and challenge our thoughts of what an olympics can be....

Do I nit pick analyse and speak my mind, yes, but like everyone else here, I do it to better understand how I feel about these things, not to rubbish anyone or anything.

If I am ever lucky enough to ever be involved operationally in a OCOG or creatively in a ceremony, my choices will be a direct result of this process, if not, then they will stand as a pretentious example of my insane obsession with the olympics, to anyone who will listen...

My point after all this is, if I can start a topic accepting that the beautiful symbolism of heatherwick's cauldron could start a new trend in cauldron style, even if I don't know if I really like it, then I think everyone else can try to avoid rubbishing everything that has gone before in terms of logos and cauldrons as copying and uninspired.

Well said, thank you. :)

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Thanks AthensFan

Love to have a drink wih you sometime.

What strikes me is the passion we each have for the Olympics. That passion is revealed time and time again on this forum.

I would like to again work as a Volunteer at an Olympics so if you, or anyone here, are still in contact at a Games in the future in any capacity, and I hope we are, being birds of a feather, then it will be good to work alongside each other to help make that Games great.

Yes,onward and upwards to more adventures.

Warm regards

Philip

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These are my home games and nothing will be able to match them... :'(

I felt the same after Sydney HJpro.

I then was privileged to work as a volunteer at Athens and had a ball.

In the end, its very much a personal thing how we perceive different things. I loved each Games for different reasons and from different perspectives.

London has done a triumphant job with these Games, with a carnival atmosphere and cheering crowds at the venues and along the public race routes. They have been a specatular success.

If the Olympic Games can continue to be something that binds us together, then thats a good thing.

That women from Saudi Arabia were allowed to compete by their country in their own right, we hope is going to have a flow-on effect on the status of women in that country not only in sport but in their society.

We have seen the two Koreas march together at Opening Ceremonies. We live in hope that those two foes can bury the hatchet and work for the benefit of each other.

Each time the world comes together for an Olmypic Games, wars seem to (mostly) stop.

The new Youth Olympic Games to better support our younger athletes without putting too much pressure upon them too early can only, I hope, increase the amount of times the world unites in the name of sport.

Its slow progress, but this concept of world peace which has become a 'cheesy' concept when spoken by beauty contestants at Miss Universe and Miss World pageants, seems to be not so cheesy whenever the Olympics are held.

God help those poor people in Syria right down who are fighting for their survival, where the Olympics must be the last thing they must be thinking about right now. I only hope we see a free and democratic Syrian sporting team march in to the Rio Opening Ceremony in 4 years time.

Edited by AustralianFan
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OK, maybe we should return to the original topic. ;)

Juso's question was whether the "204 petals" Heatherwick cauldron concept could be a precedent for future cauldrons. And I'd say: No. It would be far too obvious if any host repeated that very creative and unique "we give every host nation a part of the cauldron" concept. It would feel stale - just like Beijing's idea of staging yet another global torch relay, although that was an idea that was fitting only for the Athens Games, being staged in the country that gave birth to the Olympic Games.

I'm certain that future cauldron designers will find creative and innovative concepts of their own. A cauldron doesn't have to be a "take a piece with you as souvenir" thing in order to be an inspiring symbol.

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I think there's something to be said for simplicity. If too many hosts give in to the temptation to try to outdo each other, we're going to get a lot of very strange, overly contrived cauldrons.

Or over complicated cauldrons which don't work correctly on the night. *Cough* Sydney *Cough*

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Since we are such cauldron maniacs, I created a new thread for Rio 2016 so that we can continue our discussion there when there's nothing to discuss about the London cauldron anymore. ;) I also picked up HJPro's guess there that Rio will build a tower:

Rio 2016 Olympic Cauldron

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Or over complicated cauldrons which don't work correctly on the night. *Cough* Sydney *Cough*

yep thank god the motherland showed colonies how to do it right yeah?

not to start a pissing war, it was crap that both those things happened in Sydney and Vancouver, and I agree with elegant alternatives like athens....

But I rather have an overcomplicated cauldron that didn't work 100% than and overcomplicated one than gets doused and moved after the show and relit on a cherry picker....

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I think a rio cauldron with a pressure suspended flame on the inside of a 3d representation/sculpture of the rio logo would be interesting......

(if technically and safely achievable)

Edited by Juso
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After a tick over 3,000 posts over 132 days since Swisso kicked it off on 3 April (averaging 23 posts daily), the London Cauldron thread is in the home straight ....

Anyone know what's happening in the Stadium today as far as Cauldron and Closing Ceremony preparations ?

.

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Anyone know what's happening in the Stadium today as far as Cauldron and Closing Ceremony preparations ?

Haven't found anything about that yet, neither on Google News nor on Twitter. I guess the media are shut out the stadium today in order to #savethesurprise. ;)

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Thanks to the Eurovision links barrack has posted in the Canadian announcer thread (I should have known those Eurovision livestreams earlier! *grrrr*), I found a livestream of the Olympic Stadium viewed from the Orbit.

It's live feed 01 on this page, and there's also a live feed of the cauldron (feed number 06): http://www.eurovisionsports.tv/london2012/index.html?video_id=1303

I hope you can view it. Otherwise, I've taken two screenshots:

2cmqb0m.jpg

2j10eow.jpg

That shows that the cauldron will apparently not be moved back to the centre of the infield, that's the location for the big stage instead. You can recognise the cauldron still burning at the left side inside the stadium, in that gate where it burned during the past two weeks.

In the left of the cauldron close-up, you can also still see the stadium's roof.

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I couldn't open the webcam link as I'm in Australia but thanks for the photos Olympian2004.

Makes it interesting then if the Cauldron will have enough space to radiate downward so that the Cauldron petals are given back to the competing nations during the Closing Ceremony. Maybe there is sufficient space where it is now for the stems to come down again, or they may have taken out some seats out on either side since the atheltics competition ended.

Another question is will the petals remain on the Cauldron, cleaned after the CC and then given to a representative from each the nation after it is all over? I dont know if copper blackens when in prolonged contact with flame but I should think those petals might be a bit dirty to handle after the flame is turned off and they have cooled down (?)

Edited by AustralianFan
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Oh dear, it seems like I missed out on all these drama by not reading the thread in the 2 weeks before the ceremony.

Kiss and make up? :)

I couldn't open the webcam link as I'm in Australia but thanks for the photos Olympian2004.

Makes it interesting then if the Cauldron will have enough space to radiate downward so that the Cauldron petals are given back to the competing nations during the Closing Ceremony. Maybe there is sufficient space where it is now for the stems to come down again, or they may have taken out some seats out on either side since the atheltics competition ended.

Another question is will the petals remain on the Cauldron, cleaned after the CC and then given to a representative from each the nation after it is all over? I dont know if copper blackens when in prolonged contact with flame but I should think those petals might be a bit dirty to handle after the flame is turned off and they have cooled down (?)

I don't think they will dismantle each petals in the ceremony and hand it out to them live. Surely they need to be cleaned and give a good scrub and polish? I wouldn't want that sooty thing like that!

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Haha, yes Kevzz, this thread certainly has had its rip-roaring moments, but its ending on a good note.

It seems from this Telegraph news article of a Heatherwick inteview posted by Olympian2004 that the Cauldron is meant to radiate down so the petals can be given to the nations.

Since this post below, Olympian 2004 has posted today's photos of the Closing Ceremony preparations which shows that the Cauldron is likely to stay where it is currently burning.

So again a bit of mystery about how it's going to pan out tonight in the light of this Heatherwick interview:

Thomas Heatherwick already said that "at the end of the Games this cauldron will dismantle itself and radiate back down to the ground and each of those copper pieces taken away by each nation and put in a national Olympic cabinet somewhere."

http://www.telegraph...c-cauldron.html

This is only logical because it's a connection to how the cauldron was lit and formed during the opening ceremony.

But since there's not enough space for the cauldron to dismantle itself there in that stadium gate, I expect that they'll move it back to the centre of the infield on Saturday night or Sunday morning for the closing ceremony.

Edited by AustralianFan
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AustralianFan, you should not make the mistake of excluding any possibilities again. ;) Therefore, I wouldn't strike out my paragraph about the relocation of the cauldron completely. Who knows - maybe they have some mechanism that allows the cauldron to be slided at least slightly forward this time.

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True, they probably have got some tricks up their sleeve.

My reaction to the Heatherwick interview was that the petal removals would all take place during the actual Ceremony tonight.

He says in the video interview "at the end of the Games the Cauldron would dismantle itself".

I'm guessing that when he says "the end of the Games" to be during the actual Closing Ceremony, and not afterward.

Well, thats what I am hoping anyway.

If each petal is named after each competing nation, it sounded then that it might be a messy and unwieldy process locating and removing each one's petal, in that nest of 204 stems fully down.

But if thats what they are doing, I guess they must have worked out a seamless way to get it done.

On the other hand, if they choose to give them out after the Closing Ceremony telecast and after a good clean and scrub of the petals, then tonight we might just see the flame extinguished tonight and the rest to happen behind the scenes.

The Cauldron stems would then radiate downwards for petal removal after the Closing Ceremony.

I'd much prefer to see it happen during the actual Closing Ceremony - but we'll soon see how it pans out tonight :)

Edited by AustralianFan
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