London 2012 Olympic Cauldron...

[Athensfan]

I was addressing Baron's point of view. Not the article. If you read my earlier posts I explain that I'm not at all convinced Baron's interpretation is what happened. I also said I wasn't convinced that LOCOG was even tardy in getting the PMs approval.

[kinetic]

Chris Hoy has been nominated to carry the British flag in the Opening Ceremony, which surprised me a little - I had him marked as a potential cauldron lighter.

Regarding how it may be lit, I half expect something astonishing and aerial (which might require governmental permission) but I've been monitoring the NOTAMS for London City airport and there's nothing particularly notable here. (NOTAMs are safety bulletins for aerodromes.) This:

H3511/12 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QWELW/IV/BO /AW/000/015/5133N00001W002
A) EGLC  1207211900 C) 1207272359
D) 1900-2359
E) MULTIPLE AERIAL ACTIVITIES WI AREA BOUNDED BY 513432N 0000341W
513422N 0000119E  513213N 0000120E  513147N 0000052W  513225N
0000246W  513432N 0000341W. INCLUDING FIREWORK DISPLAYS UP TO 800FT
AGL AND INTENSE HELICOPTER ACTIVITY (STRATFORD)
12-07-0619/0621/0114/0119/AS 6
F) SFC G) 1500FT AMSL
CREATED: 18 Jul 2012 20:42:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Means that there will be lots of aerial activity in the Olympic Park area until midnight on the 27th (although expect this to be extended), but nothing about 1,500' and no fireworks above 800'.

[Athensfan]

If this can happen with something as major as thousands of security personnel, then they can certainly fail to get the PMs approval for a cauldron until 45 days before the Games. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm not even saying they should have had the PMs permission earlier because I don't know the specifics. I'm saying that a delay in going through official channels seems totally plausible considering recent events.

See above.

[thepianoman]

I think you'll find different opinions about the planning application. In my opinion it's a no-brainer that this is where the cauldron will stand, but I'm very ready to be proved wrong. (Although not on the Orbit thank you.)

The Ikea tower marks the site of a big residential/commercial development in Stratford, and is not directly linked with the Olympics. (Apologies for linking to the Mail.)

Thanks kinetic! Surely if there's been no other planning applications, this is surely the cauldron's location? Is that area where the Orbit currently stands?

Chris Hoy has been nominated to carry the British flag in the Opening Ceremony, which surprised me a little - I had him marked as a potential cauldron lighter.

Regarding how it may be lit, I half expect something astonishing and aerial (which might require governmental permission) but I've been monitoring the NOTAMS for London City airport and there's nothing particularly notable here. (NOTAMs are safety bulletins for aerodromes.) This:

H3511/12 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QWELW/IV/BO /AW/000/015/5133N00001W002
A) EGLC  1207211900 C) 1207272359
D) 1900-2359
E) MULTIPLE AERIAL ACTIVITIES WI AREA BOUNDED BY 513432N 0000341W
513422N 0000119E  513213N 0000120E  513147N 0000052W  513225N
0000246W  513432N 0000341W. INCLUDING FIREWORK DISPLAYS UP TO 800FT
AGL AND INTENSE HELICOPTER ACTIVITY (STRATFORD)
12-07-0619/0621/0114/0119/AS 6
F) SFC G) 1500FT AMSL
CREATED: 18 Jul 2012 20:42:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Means that there will be lots of aerial activity in the Olympic Park area until midnight on the 27th (although expect this to be extended), but nothing about 1,500' and no fireworks above 800'.

I'd imagine that the "intense helicopter activity" is probably TV related i.e. aerial shots of the stadium and surrounding area during the opening ceremony?

[kinetic]

Thanks kinetic! Surely if there's been no other planning applications, this is surely the cauldron's location? Is that area where the Orbit currently stands?

Nope, the Orbit to the south-east of the stadium. Without being overly self-referential, I've explained why I think it's not the Orbit here and here.

I'd imagine that the "intense helicopter activity" is probably TV related i.e. aerial shots of the stadium and surrounding area during the opening ceremony?

I've been told that in the peak period in London, there will be five OBS aircraft in the air (e.g. triathlon and marathon events).

[HJPro]

Yes. G4S screwed up -- big time. But oversight in these matters is absolutely essential. Did LOCOG and the government basically take a hands-off approach and say "we've signed a contract. We're sure you'll deliver. You need nothing from us"? It sounds like it. That's totally inappropriate for something of this magnitude.

Somebody from LOCOG and the government should've been in regular contact with G4S and should've been monitoring the situation all along.

The cauldron approval SHOULDN'T have been a rush job (and maybe it wasn't), but the government shouldn't have had to call in the troops a few weeks before the Games either. Neither of those things should ever happen.

I'm sure the cauldron lighting was imagined by heatherwick a year ago when it was announced he was designing the cauldron, I think there probably has been no change to the original proposal by the government.

[HJPro]

I'm sure the cauldron lighting was imagined by heatherwick a year ago when it was announced he was designing the cauldron, I think there probably has been no change to the original proposal by the government.

To be quite frank I have no idea of what's going to be the design of the cauldron, where it is, who's going to light it or how its going to be lit, I'm starting to ponder whether to just wait for the opening ceremony as I think nothing is going to be leaked even though we're so close to the start of what will be the greatest Olympics ever (even better than Sydney's!!!)

[Brekkie Boy]

I think that if the information reported in the Heatherwick interview is correct (?) (about the PM's special permission being given for the lighting method) is currently covered by law, then that legislation must in itself give the Prime Minister of the day discretionary powers for one-off infringements of those laws, eg it is in the national interest ---> ie the safe lighting of the Cauldron.

So what sort of 'national laws' would apply here?

National airspace Laws above the City, Olympic Park and /or the Stadium ?

National Heritage or Landmark Laws ?

National Security or Dangerous Goods Regulations regarding transportation and ignition of combustible materials in public spaces, etc ?

The possibilities are endless. But I would like to know how accurate that Heatherwick interview that Mexico68 kindly posted earlier today .

Any volunteers to translate from Spanish ?

Knowing London you probably need permission from the Prime Minister just to light a naked flame in an urban park after 10.30pm. Is it possible though that the talk of his "permission" is just him upping the ceremonies budget to enable them to do it?

Just been watching the BBC news which has started coming from their studios in the olympic park from today. The stadium is behind and I have to say I looked carefully but could not see anything at all cauldron related! All looked exactly the same.

Dont know if it would be from the right angle though, the Orbit is directly between the stadium and the studios so may be the wrong angle to see anything anyway.

I really hope it isn't the Orbit but with most broadcasters now in place you have to think all will ultimately have the cauldron in full view once it's lit as that after all is the money shot, not the tower of junk.

[MarkUk]

I've been reading your thoughts for the last few days and thought I'd share a few observations.

* From this afternoon, the BBC have avoided showing the northern end of the stadium (to the right in this picture http://postimage.org/image/60qt0irkz/).

* As others have pointed out, the northern end is the cauldron location identified in the planning application (http://planning.london2012.com/upload/publicaccessODAlive/OLY-OLF-APP-DWG-PDZ3-SSU-PAR-001%20%282268%29.pdf).

* this is also, approximately, the location where recent photographs signs of building work and an area surrounded by a black fence.

* the roof support structure is a lot stronger than some on here have suggested. Look at all the gantries and walkways that have been added since the roof was finished.

* a black structure appears to be visible at the far right end of this the stadium in the 7th picture on this page (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175205/London-2012-Opening-Ceremony-View-inside-Olympic-Stadium-provides-glimpse-spectacle-look.html). OPENING CEREMONY SPOILER ALERT!

Finally, people seem to be getting worked up about gas pipes in the Orbit. I understand there is a restaurant in the Orbit, I would imagine the kitchen requires gas!

[baron-pierreIV]

Welcome, MarkUK.

Thanks for that link to the planning. That yet is the most explicit document I have seen revealing the spot for the cauldron; and it is dated April 2007. So indeed as early as 5 years ago. Unless something will rise there in the next 48 hours, then it won't be there. So, apparently, they have chosen to bypass that spot and it will now be located wherever that new place Heatherwick & co. have decided it will be.

The "It's big" thing hint is also quite intriguing. What is so BIG in that park that can carry a flame? Can only be the Orbit and/or that Ikea tower so far.

[Lee]

I am absolutely loving the fact that the cauldron is still unknown, in terms of appearance or location.

[Athensfan]

I've been reading your thoughts for the last few days and thought I'd share a few observations.

* From this afternoon, the BBC have avoided showing the northern end of the stadium (to the right in this picture http://postimage.org/image/60qt0irkz/).

* As others have pointed out, the northern end is the cauldron location identified in the planning application (http://planning.lond...0%282268%29.pdf).

* this is also, approximately, the location where recent photographs signs of building work and an area surrounded by a black fence.

* the roof support structure is a lot stronger than some on here have suggested. Look at all the gantries and walkways that have been added since the roof was finished.

* a black structure appears to be visible at the far right end of this the stadium in the 7th picture on this page (http://www.dailymail...tacle-look.html). OPENING CEREMONY SPOILER ALERT!

Finally, people seem to be getting worked up about gas pipes in the Orbit. I understand there is a restaurant in the Orbit, I would imagine the kitchen requires gas!

Excellent post. Thank you. And there certainly is a black structure (probably masking of some kind) in the 7th picture.

[MarkUk]

Thank you baron-pierreIV

I think the cauldron will 'appear' over the next few days. If it has been assembled and tested somewhere else in England, it could be assembled on site very quickly. This would still be the case even if the cauldron were on the Orbit.

However I don't think the cauldron will be on the Orbit. Apart from anything else, if I were paying £15 to go to the top of the Orbit, I would want a good view of the cauldron and flame!

I also don't believe there will be a temporary cauldron in the stadium, for the opening ceremony, which will then be moved outside after the ceremony. That would mean the flame not being visible for a few days (at least) which wouldn't be acceptable to LOCOG or the IOC.

So, whichever way you look at it, either a cauldron needs to be assembled outside the stadium in the next few days or it is already there and we haven't recognised it (those five rings on the roof?).

If I have to guess, I think the cauldron will be a tower/structure to the north of the stadium. It will probably be close to, and attached to, the stadium itself so that it can be seen from inside without being too tall (the plans show that the cauldron could be anywhere on the northern concorse).

[SwissO]

Is it possible that those 5 rings would fly around and would be reunited alltogether as an official 4 rings logo on the top of the roof in the area floodlit on its north side ???

[baron-pierreIV]

Thank you baron-pierreIV

I also don't believe there will be a temporary cauldron in the stadium, for the opening ceremony, which will then be moved outside after the ceremony. That would mean the flame not being visible for a few days (at least) which wouldn't be acceptable to LOCOG or the IOC.

They don't have to move a temporary one to another site. Just do it like Vancouver. Have a dupe wherever that is. All they need is the original Olympia flame. THe ceremonial one just goes back into the ground or in a box, and brought out again, if need be, for Closing. With 2 cauldrons, the big one gets to stay in the park; the dupe probably gets donated to the IOC Museum in Lausanne.

Also, remember, they have to figure in the Lighting for the Paralympics. So, simple and efficient is better.

[SwissO]

Is it possible that those 5 rings would fly around and would be reunited alltogether as an official 4 rings logo on the top of the roof in the area floodlit on its north side ???

So here are the rings....

[spoiler

oops....

I'm not a geek !!! Too old for that...

[paul]

?

[SwissO]

Excellent suggestion SwissO. That way the 5 rings may well stay put for the entire games once flown together to form the iconic Olympic logo.

Recently there was one particular photo showing a big gantry on the roof supporting one of the rings.

Both ends of that heavy looking gantry appeared itself to be supported across the curve of the Stadium on the stronger outside edge of the Stadium roof.

Is that photo taken from one of the dress rehearsals or is it a doctored 'pretend' image?

????

Apparently it has been taken this evening... but nowdays who could be sure ???

[The Hawk]

I think it was taken at the dress rehearsals.

Not sure if this has already been posted, but the Orbit has been discounted once and for all: http://seattletimes.com/html/sports/2018752884_apolymittalstower.html

[paul]

AP Interview: Steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal says the Orbit Tower is not the Olympic cauldron

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/07/23/steel-magnate-mittal-tower-not-olympic-cauldron52635/

[msp2032]

^{Reminds of the opening of Phantom of the Opera when the chandlier rises up to the ceiling}

Sorry about the small textt!! The rings remind me of the opening of Phantom of the Opera when the chandlier rises to the top of the ceiling.

[MarkUk]

They don't have to move a temporary one to another site. Just do it like Vancouver. Have a dupe wherever that is.

But, as I also said, the duplicate cauldron would still need to be assembled in the next few days. Anyway, the head of the BOA was reported yesterday as saying the cauldron lighting will be spectacular "a wow moment" (http://www.examiner.com/article/2012-olympics-ceremony-to-light-olympic-cauldron-could-include-5-athletes). If they want people to remember the lighting, I doubt they would then move the flame. Wouldn't it spoil the moment?

I've just found some pictures on the BBC website which show the inside of the BBC's Olympic Park studio (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/18894293). Picture 7, in particular, shows the area where I think the cauldron will be. A stadium roof level flame would be clearly seen from this studio. I'm pretty sure the studios are positioned so that the flame, the key Olympic symbol, would be seen in shot.

[SwissO]

But, as I also said, the duplicate cauldron would still need to be assembled in the next few days. Anyway, the head of the BOA was reported yesterday as saying the cauldron lighting will be spectacular "a wow moment" (http://www.examiner.com/article/2012-olympics-ceremony-to-light-olympic-cauldron-could-include-5-athletes). If they want people to remember the lighting, I doubt they would then move the flame. Wouldn't it spoil the moment?

I've just found some pictures on the BBC website which show the inside of the BBC's Olympic Park studio (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/18894293). Picture 7, in particular, shows the area where I think the cauldron will be. A stadium roof level flame would be clearly seen from this studio. I'm pretty sure the studios are positioned so that the flame, the key Olympic symbol, would be seen in shot.

BBC studio is a 180° one... so covering most of the O park !

[MarkUk]

So here are the rings....

[spoiler

oops....

I'm not a geek !!! Too old for that...

I was thinking the rings would be used just like that although I rejected them being the cauldron itself (I don't think Thomas Heatherwick would like people to think that's the best idea he could come up with!). However I do think they could be part of the lighting process (five rings, five athletes?).

BBC studio is a 180° one... so covering most of the O park !

Not really because of the height of that studio (not to be confused with the BBC news studio). Unless they're broadcasting in x-ray vision as well as HD and 3D, the cauldron would have to be in the location identified on the planning document or outside the Aquatic Centre.

[paul]

I'm dreaming of a second flame on top the shard.