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Munich 2022


munichfan

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You'd say that. But almost all newspapers writing about a future Munich bid explain that so-called "experts" told them that Munich wouldn't stand any reasonable chance.

I really don't understand why.

Germany hasn't hosted any Games since Munich and hasn't hosted Winter Games for longer still. The country is a sporting powerhouse in excellent standing with the IOC. They have many venues already in place and a tradition of superb sports organization. It is highly questionable whether Norway, the US , Spain or Switzerland could mount much of a challenge to Munich.

If Munich isn't a strong favorite, who is?

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2022 or 2026, yes. Thomas Bach has said, though, that there is no new development regarding a German Olympic bid. He said that Germany would only bid if the basic conditions are right and if the bid stood a realistic chance.

Bach and his stance are starting to really concern me. I hate to say it, but I wonder if his ambition will cost Munich an Olympics. Could he be intentionally trying to discourage Munich from mounting a bid for 2022 just to improve his chances of replacing Rogge as IOC President?

Let's call a spade a spade here - even those who would prefer seeing the Games elsewhere would admit if they were to bid, Munich has the inside track for 2022. So, if the support is there and it seems like it is more likely than not to happen, it's stupid not to bid. Ask Cape Town or Durban if they feel foolish not trying for 2020 now, if you need an example there.

I really hope the German Olympic Committee really gives this a lot of thought and will not let politics rule their decision.

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Would a Munich bid benefit by changing to maximise existing facilities or continue with the plan to use temporary facilities?

With Garmisch and Schonau au Kongisee already being used, the bid is quite spread but looking at Wikipedia concerning existing arenas and tracks, would adding some existing facilities which already host World Championships rather than build new temporary ones which make the bid more compact be the way to go in this time of economic challenges.

1. It still creates a legacy as these sites will be updated anyway.

2. There will still be a need to build one new arena in Munich and this could be a permanent building rather than temporary solution.

3. It might lessen the impact on Garmisch and therefore reduce the environmental opposition, especially if the Nordic sports are moved to another location.

If the Denver bid is chosen by the Americans and they include some of the locations in the suburbs like Boulder or further afield like Colorado Springs, Munich won't be any bigger in size, and it becomes more of a Bavarian bid rather than just Munich,

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I think if Germany starts now, no matter who steps up for 2022 (even the US) its a front runner with Munich.

As much as I love Berlin as a city, 21st century Berlin is just not Olympic material. Plus I have this feeling that staging the Olympics in the venues built by Nazis is not really nostalga worth investigating.

Munich 2022 seems so right. I'm glad Pyeongchang got 2018, South Korea deserved it, but 2022 is Munich's best chance. I think the combination of having the first Olympics in post-1989 Germany and having a city bridge the Summer and Winter Olympics is a special opportunity.

I also think, despite my views on Berlin, Munich deserves to clear its name with relation to the Olympics.

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As much as I love Berlin as a city, 21st century Berlin is just not Olympic material. Plus I have this feeling that staging the Olympics in the venues built by Nazis is not really nostalga worth investigating.

If this is an issue for Berlin, then it is an issue for Garmisch too. Some of their facilities were also built by the Nazis for 1936.

I think the combination of having the first Olympics in post-1989 Germany and having a city bridge the Summer and Winter Olympics is a special opportunity.

Why do they deserve a post-unification Olympics?

I also think, despite my views on Berlin, Munich deserves to clear its name with relation to the Olympics.

Why does Munich deserve a "do-over"? I don't hear anyone calling for Athens to get a do-over, or Atlanta? In fact the last two are help up as examples of why the games should never go to cities like that again.

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I agree with Green and Blue. 2022 is a great time for Munich to host. Germany is a sporting and economic powerhouse that deserves to host the Games due to their importance and the decades that have passed since their previous Olympics -- particularly the Winter ones.

Germany of 2022 is worlds away from Munich '72. It's a different nation. Therefore Munich would not be redundant, it would be a rebirth.

As for Atlanta -- yes those Games were lackluster. Athens was not. The Games were magnificent. The process building up to them was far more rushed than anyone would like, but the end result was outstanding. Post-Games, Greece has had problems, but the Games contributed a minuscule amount to their total debt. As for legacy, after frittering the first three years, legacy planning went out the window just to get the Games delivered on time. Sadly the venues have fallen into disrepair. Lets be clear though, the Games themselves were fantastic. No one should describe those Olympics as a failure.

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Lets be clear though, the Games themselves were fantastic. No one should describe those Olympics as a failure.

Fair enough. I'm actually a big supporter of a Munich bid. Just take huge exception with the statement from a poster that someone they deserve a chance to "get it right". For the vast majority of cities, an Olympic Games is a one-off opportunity. I don't think any city should get a second shot to "do it right". I know Paris did - 1924 was their do-over for 1900, but that should never again be even a minor reason for an Olympic Host award. If anything, a past failure should be a black mark that a city needs to work very very hard to overcome!

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Fair enough. I'm actually a big supporter of a Munich bid. Just take huge exception with the statement from a poster that someone they deserve a chance to "get it right". For the vast majority of cities, an Olympic Games is a one-off opportunity. I don't think any city should get a second shot to "do it right". I know Paris did - 1924 was their do-over for 1900, but that should never again be even a minor reason for an Olympic Host award. If anything, a past failure should be a black mark that a city needs to work very very hard to overcome!

That last notion that a "black mark" is something that a city should work very hard to overcome is ridiculous. Ultimately, cities are inanimate; they are not individual people that can by any measure be black listed or vilified. Melbourne, Mexico City, Montreal, Moscow and Los Angeles are all cities that hosted Olympics with a controversial element to them, but all of them - by their own civic effort, contributed positively to the Olympic movement and don't have anything to "overcome".

For the record; I'm not suggesting that cities get a chance to "do over" their past to get it right - you were taking my comment out of context.

But I feel Munich is a very specific example. It cannot be compared to the disorganisation and over commercialisation surrounding Atlanta, for example. Munich 1972 in its planning was one of the most innovative ever, it gave the Olympic movement one of its most iconic venues ever. It was security that let it down. I firmly believe that had the 1972 Games been staged in Montreal, Detroit or Madrid the terrorist attack would have probably happened anyway. Munich was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Security until then was not a big deal. My father remembers quite vividly casually strolling through the 1956 Olympic Village in Melbourne, and saying hello to foreign athletes. Munich, and the world was taken off guard.

It's this above that made me form the opinion that Munich deserves to clear its name with the Olympic movement. It's been a word that conjures horror and suffering and staging another Olympics, would help in removing some of this stigma. Much of history often unfairly blames the City of Munich for what happened.

As for Garmisch - I don't believe the venues there would hold quite the same power and connotations than Hitler's Olympiastadion. It looked great at the World Cup, but I don't feel personally that the Olympics need to go back there anytime soon.

Aside from all that, I just believe its ultimately time Germany hosted the next European Winter Olympics. It's too powerful to ignore.

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Aside from all that, I just believe its ultimately time Germany hosted the next European Winter Olympics. It's too powerful to ignore.

I completely agree that Germany is a deserving host, and should host with one her own cities (instead of funding a Madrid or Rome bid with bailout money...). However, since you raised the Munich issue I still see it as a black mark to overcome.

Anniversaries hold significance. You can argue the attack would have happened anywhere in the world in 1972. However, reality is it happened in Munich. Given the even more extreme tension in the Middle East these days, you can be sure that some crackpot group is going to go for infamy by trying to reprise the attacks, just because it is Munich. Any bid by Munich needs to prove they take this into account.

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I don't get this fascination with Munich. That place has EVIL spelled over it. It's where Hitler rose to power and where evil again showed up in 1972. I get spasms whenever I hear anything connected with Munich. Why would or why should anybody want to return to such a place with SUCH EVIL?

There is bad juju over Munich. Maybe Thomas Bach knows something we don't. Avoid Munich at all costs.

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I completely agree that Germany is a deserving host, and should host with one her own cities (instead of funding a Madrid or Rome bid with bailout money...). However, since you raised the Munich issue I still see it as a black mark to overcome.

Anniversaries hold significance. You can argue the attack would have happened anywhere in the world in 1972. However, reality is it happened in Munich. Given the even more extreme tension in the Middle East these days, you can be sure that some crackpot group is going to go for infamy by trying to reprise the attacks, just because it is Munich. Any bid by Munich needs to prove they take this into account.

Not true. Any bid by ANY city needs to take that into account. Olympic security in the 21st Century is a lot different than it was in the past. Ask the Greeks whose budget ballooned out of control in large part because of increased security costs. These are things that every bid city needs to take into account because it they can't promise to deliver a safe and secure Olympics to the IOC, they're not going to win.

And let's remember some context with Munich 1972. Once again, we're blindly applying history without exploring the details behind it. Part of the back-story is that the security in Munich was somewhat intentionally lax in an effort to put on a new face for the world in response to the Nazi Olympics of 1936. So greenandblue.. as much as the city of Munich gets blamed for what happened. Well, they probably should. Terrorists exploited the Germans' good will and it resulted in tragedy. Not to say it couldn't have happened elsewhere in the world, but like Canis said, it happened in Munich.

That all said, 40-50 years is a lot time. As much as that tragedy will never be forgotten, to paint Munich 2022 in the same place as Munich 1972 is a little short-sighted. I can't even say it's practically a different country. It IS a different country. They don't deserve an Olympics to repair the image of those terrible events, but rather because Germany has more winter sporting tradition than virtually any other country in Europe and they're only a few years removed from hosting a very successful World Cup. So I believe it's their time to host an Olympics and if Munich 2022 is steaming full ahead, then I think it's theirs to lose. 1972 may be a black mark, but with respect to a future bid, it's a mere footnote. So long as they can prove they can handle the security concerns that every Olympic bid city is held accountable for (and again, having hosted an event as large as the World Cup is a big plus), they have nothing to prove in response to 1972.

I don't get this fascination with Munich. That place has EVIL spelled over it. It's where Hitler rose to power and where evil again showed up in 1972. I get spasms whenever I hear anything connected with Munich. Why would or why should anybody want to return to such a place with SUCH EVIL?

There is bad juju over Munich. Maybe Thomas Bach knows something we don't. Avoid Munich at all costs.

So we're going to hold the Nazi regime against Germany for the rest of time? Or just until Reno hosts an Olympics? No wonder you get spasms over Munich.. because you know they're probably in the best position to win 2022. Why such the world return there? Because I think it could be a wonderful setting for a Winter Olympics in a country that will embrace and support them. No reason to think the reality would be myles away from that.

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1. in a country that will embrace and support them.

2. be myles away from that.

1. And other countries (and locales) will NOT embrace and support the Games? :rolleyes: Certain farmers there and the German top honcho DON'T want them.

2. wrong spelling. you meant 'miles'. It's cap "M" if you want to spell it the other way--but I don't know what you'd mean by that??? :blink:

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1. And other countries (and locales) will NOT embrace and support the Games? :rolleyes: Certain farmers there and the German top honcho DON'T want them.

Embrace, yes. Support is a different story. Germany has proven they can handle large scale sporting events and have the type of fanbase that can fill some nice large venues plus find uses for them after the games. So a couple of people don't want them. How often do bids not have their detractors? It's far from a guarantee that they'll be bidding, but they're still taking a long look at it regardless of how little you seem to want to see it.

2. wrong spelling. you meant 'miles'. It's cap "M" if you want to spell it the other way--but I don't know what you'd mean by that???

No, I'm pretty sure I meant to type myles, that's not a typo, it's how I chose to spell it. It's called being subtle. You should give it a try. As if you don't know where I was going with that :P

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seems like no other country is as much discouraged after lost bid as Germany always is.

why can´t they bid 3 times in a row if need like SouthKorea ?

Germany just need to show more willingness to host the games.

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I guess Bach is also a bit concerned about the funding of a bid, because in Germany all the money goes to Football, Fottball, Fottball .............

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Munich will bid, and like it or not it maybe the best bid!! Germany has hosted thousands of sporting events in the past decade and nothing "EVIL" has happened otherwise the Champions League ob Saturday would have been a failure (which is not the case)... And they deserve to host the games before Austria, USA, Canada, Switzerland.

GO MUNICH

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nothing "EVIL" has happened otherwise the Champions League ob Saturday would have been a failure (which is not the case)...

I think most Muencheners would say that something evil DID happen Saturday night at the Champions League final...

Clearly, Bayern Munich had a drink from Shrek201's bad juju juice bottle ;-)

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I totally agree with the concept of "no do-overs". The Olympics are a privilege and shouldn't be squandered.

Personally, I doubt '72 is going to play much of a role in whether Munich bids or wins 2022. Geopolitics and public support (plus internal IOC politics surrounding Bach) will be their big issues.

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I certainly don't believe the events of '72 should affect a future Munich bid (and have argued as much here in the past). And I do personally like the emotional appeal of Munich being the first to bridge the SOGs and WOGs. But as we all like to point out here so often, there's just so many factors that can get counted in shaping votes in a hosting decision, and I concede it's probably fair to expect that the sad legacy of 72 just MIGHT influence a few IOC members' votes. I'd be surprised if it was more than one or two votes, but as is also often pointed out here, in a close race those one or two could be vital. It's just one of those factors that Munich would always have to factor in, and make doubly sure the rest of its plans are watertight and attractive.

And, yes, I'm a firm believer the games are a privilege and not a right. But Germany surely has one of the strongest cases of all the major sporting powers to be due a celebration soon, be it either a SOGs or WOGs.

As to Berlin, well, the Olympiastadion didn't bother FIFA or the IAAF, so I don't see why it would be anathema to the IOC. Berlin might be a city with huge political and historical ghosts, with Prussian militarism, Nazism, the Cold war and Communism all shaping it. But today I do think it's settled into a role, and been made over successfully, as the new symbol of a united, democratic and liberal Germany.

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I don't get this fascination with Munich. That place has EVIL spelled over it. It's where Hitler rose to power and where evil again showed up in 1972. I get spasms whenever I hear anything connected with Munich. Why would or why should anybody want to return to such a place with SUCH EVIL?

There is bad juju over Munich. Maybe Thomas Bach knows something we don't. Avoid Munich at all costs.

You seem to be a very spiritual oriented person, which link places with something what happened there...

Do you avoid New York (where a terror attack happened, too) or do you avoid Washington or Dallas, where Lincoln or Kennedy were murdered? Do you avoid Braunau, since Hitler was born there?

When you answer that more than one "evil" happened in Munich I can only answer that it proves even more that you are too spiritual orientated. Would it calm you down when I told you how many "good" happened in Munich?

You should free your mind of linking places with "good" or "evil" - otherwise you can't leave your flat anymore one day, when you really take such things seriously...

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I don't get this fascination with Munich. That place has EVIL spelled over it. It's where Hitler rose to power and where evil again showed up in 1972. I get spasms whenever I hear anything connected with Munich. Why would or why should anybody want to return to such a place with SUCH EVIL?

There is bad juju over Munich. Maybe Thomas Bach knows something we don't. Avoid Munich at all costs.

I seem to recall the largest terrorist incidence which blighted an Olympic games occured in the USA.

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I seem to recall the largest terrorist incidence which blighted an Olympic games occured in the USA.

Which one is that? You surely can't be referring to the Atlanta bombing as anywhere near on par with what happened in 72, much less "larger".

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Atlanta doesn't remotely compare to Munich. And you say you have no axe to grind against the US!

Well both were terrorist attacks, When someone attacks the USA doesn't mean the USA sucks or is not deserving of hosting it is what it is.

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Well both were terrorist attacks, When someone attacks the USA doesn't mean the USA sucks or is not deserving of hosting it is what it is.

I'm not even sure if I'd classify Atlanta's as a terrorist attack. More a lone nutter with a beef against abortion clinics and gays. It's not like it was the action of a motivated and politically oriented terrorist cell.

I don't want to belittle it - it was a very sad low point to Atlanta's games (not that I ant to join the Atlanta bashers - I had a great time there and very warm memories of it), and I myself possibly missed being caught up in it at Centennial Park by a matter of hours - but to describe it as the "largest terrorist incidence which blighted an Olympic games" is overblown hyperbole and sensationalism at best, exaggerated anti-American spin at worst.

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