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'Earned' might be better, in as much as earned the chance. Honest to God, if someone brings up the Black September attack or the Nazis one more time as a reason why Munich is a bad choice, I may hav

have you stopped to think about the fact that you got banned from a board that it's virtually impossible to get banned from yet? have you ever given thought to the fact that your posts are trashy and

I don't like the word "deserves", but as a major sporting and economic power that won't have hosted any Olympics at all for 50 years, I think Germany can make a pretty strong case -- probably more com

  • 3 weeks later...

I'm from Munich and I live near the Olympic Park. First, I think Munich is in a strong position for the games referring to that list of applicant cities:

Oslo - strong concept and winter sports nation no. 1, but a referendum will show, but the population tends to say no

Barcelona - no good chances due to the crisis in spain and spain isn't a winter sports nation

Zakopane/Poprad/Lviv - no good chances because it'd be in three different countries and Lviv is far away from Zakopane; would also be the third experiment in a row after Sochi and PyeongChang

But I have a few problems with the 2 Cluster + 1 stand-alone venue concept used for 2018.

I think time is ready for a 3 Cluster concept of Munich, Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Berchtesgadener Land. Maybe that sounds strange, but in fact it's just logical.

The concept would look like this in detail:

Munich

Olympiastadion Opening and Closing Ceremonies, in existence, after the games athletics as before

Olympiahalle Figure Skating, Short Track Speed Skating and Ice Hockey finals, in existence, after the games multi-function-Arena as before

Olympia-Schwimmhalle Curling, in exsitense, after the games Swimming hall as before

Olympia-Eissportzentrum Ice Hockey 1, newly built, after the games centre for ice sports all year round (RedBull München) as before

Event-Arena Ice Hockey 2, newly built, after the games second multi-function hall especially for conferences, trade Shows etc as before

Garmisch-Partenkirchen

Olympiaschanzen (Olympia-Skistadion) Ski Jumping, Nordic Combined Ski Jumping (perhaps even Nordic Combined Cross-Country Ski) Aerial (Freestyle Ski and Snowboard), in existence, after the games Four Hills Tournament, Football Stadium in summer as before

Kandahar Alpine Skiing except Slalom, in existence, after the games yearly world Cup races and ski resort as before

Gudiberg Slalom (Alpine Skiing), Freestyle Moguls, in existence, after the games World Cup races and ski Resort as before

Hausberg Freestyle Ski and Snowboard (few disciplines not yet clear, others at Grötschen), newly built, after the games ski Resort as before

Berchtesgadener Land

Schönau am Königssee Luge, Bobsleigh, Skeleton, in existence, after the games yearly world Cup races as before

Inzell Speed Skating, in existence, after the games yearly world Cup races as before

Ruhpolding (Chiemgau-Arena) Biathlon and Cross-Country Skiing, in existence, after the games world Cup races as before

Bischofswiesen (Grötschen) Freestyle Ski and Snowboard (few disciplines not yet clear, others at Hausberg), in existence, after the games ski Resort as before

The reasons:

Garmisch-Partenkirchen is too small to host too many Events and it would destroy its charm.

On the way to Schönau there is Inzell. Ruhpolding is just a few kilometres from Inzell away. And Grötschen is not far away from Schönau and Berchtesgaden. Salzburg is also not far away. But necessary would be in my opinion a new railway Connection from Munich via Inzell/Ruhpolding directly to Berchtesgaden not via Freilassing which is almost Salzburg.

But Grötschen is not that necessary, Hausberg could easily host the rest.

And Munich doesn't need any new convention centres because we have a lot capacity in one of the biggest convention centres in Germany. Munich doesn't need a Speed Skating Oval either because there is one in Inzell and two high class halls in Erfurt and Berlin. Only the Richmond concept from 2010 would be an alternative to Inzell, but maybe one can copy and adjust it for the new Event-Arena.

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  • 3 weeks later...

welcome to the boards, opportunity!

It is great that another German is here on GamesBids - we are just very few here!

Your plan is interesting - especially since the DOSB and the German Winter Sports Federations initiated on tuesday a survey about a venue concept for a Munich 2022 bid, which should improve the venue concept of the previous 2018 bid. At the same time the DOSB and the German Winter Sport Federations are following with this initiation at Ude's request (Christian Ude is the mayor of Munich). Ude asked for a venue concept to be able to support the referendum about the 2022 bid in november.

Four changes of the venue concept of 2018 shall be considered for 2022:

- Biathlon and Cross Country shall take place in Ruhpolding => using of existing venues / reducing of venues in and around Garmisch-Partenkirchen

- Halfpipe and Aerials shall take place in the Olympiapark Munich => reducing of venues in and around Garmisch-Partenkirchen

- a third Olympic Village shall be planned in and around Ruhpolding/Königsee => reducing of the planned Olympic Village in Garmisch-Partenkirchen

- the two cluster and one stand alone venue of 2018 is changed into a three cluster venue plan for 2022

Edited by Citius Altius Fortius
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welcome to the boards, opportunity!

It is great that another German is here on GamesBids - we are just very few here!

Your plan is interesting - especially since the DOSB and the German Winter Sports Federations initiated on tuesday a survey about a venue concept for a Munich 2022 bid, which should improve the venue concept of the previous 2018 bid. At the same time the DOSB and the German Winter Sport Federations are following with this initiation at Ude's request (Christian Ude is the mayor of Munich). Ude asked for a venue concept to be able to support the referendum about the 2022 bid in november.

Four changes of the venue concept of 2018 shall be considered for 2022:

- Biathlon and Cross Country shall take place in Ruhpolding => using of existing venues / reducing of venues in and around Garmisch-Partenkirchen

- Halfpipe and Aerials shall take place in the Olympiapark Munich => reducing of venues in and around Garmisch-Partenkirchen

- a third Olympic Village shall be planned in and around Ruhpolding/Königsee => reducing of the planned Olympic Village in Garmisch-Partenkirchen

- the two cluster and one stand alone venue of 2018 is changed into a three cluster venue plan for 2022

Is a 3 cluster bid too spread out?

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Why is half pipe and aerials going to Olympic Park when there are real alpine venues? That’s cool for an xgames type or super pipe event but sounds like more degrading of the alpine experience that only an Olympic Winter Games can offer. One day will all alpine courses just be constructed in the Beijing Olympic Park using artificial snow?


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I think that they just want to analyse how they can limit the environmental impact (to use existing venues as much as they can) and at the same time to have as few clusters as possible...

I think the halfpipe and the aerials in the Olympiapark is a kind of "bonbon" for Munich...

These changes are not decided yet - the changes shall be analysed in the survey only (at the moment) - for me it was interesting that opportunity nearly proposed the same changes (except the survey doesn't change the speed-skating to Inzell and opportunity didn't switched the halfpipe and aerials to Munich.

Edited by Citius Altius Fortius
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I'm from Munich and I live near the Olympic Park. First, I think Munich is in a strong position for the games referring to that list of applicant cities:

Oslo - strong concept and winter sports nation no. 1, but a referendum will show, but the population tends to say no

Barcelona - no good chances due to the crisis in spain and spain isn't a winter sports nation

Zakopane/Poprad/Lviv - no good chances because it'd be in three different countries and Lviv is far away from Zakopane; would also be the third experiment in a row after Sochi and PyeongChang

But I have a few problems with the 2 Cluster + 1 stand-alone venue concept used for 2018.

I think time is ready for a 3 Cluster concept of Munich, Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Berchtesgadener Land. Maybe that sounds strange, but in fact it's just logical.

The concept would look like this in detail:

Munich

Olympiastadion Opening and Closing Ceremonies, in existence, after the games athletics as before

Olympiahalle Figure Skating, Short Track Speed Skating and Ice Hockey finals, in existence, after the games multi-function-Arena as before

Olympia-Schwimmhalle Curling, in exsitense, after the games Swimming hall as before

Olympia-Eissportzentrum Ice Hockey 1, newly built, after the games centre for ice sports all year round (RedBull München) as before

Event-Arena Ice Hockey 2, newly built, after the games second multi-function hall especially for conferences, trade Shows etc as before

Garmisch-Partenkirchen

Olympiaschanzen (Olympia-Skistadion) Ski Jumping, Nordic Combined Ski Jumping (perhaps even Nordic Combined Cross-Country Ski) Aerial (Freestyle Ski and Snowboard), in existence, after the games Four Hills Tournament, Football Stadium in summer as before

Kandahar Alpine Skiing except Slalom, in existence, after the games yearly world Cup races and ski resort as before

Gudiberg Slalom (Alpine Skiing), Freestyle Moguls, in existence, after the games World Cup races and ski Resort as before

Hausberg Freestyle Ski and Snowboard (few disciplines not yet clear, others at Grötschen), newly built, after the games ski Resort as before

Berchtesgadener Land

Schönau am Königssee Luge, Bobsleigh, Skeleton, in existence, after the games yearly world Cup races as before

Inzell Speed Skating, in existence, after the games yearly world Cup races as before

Ruhpolding (Chiemgau-Arena) Biathlon and Cross-Country Skiing, in existence, after the games world Cup races as before

Bischofswiesen (Grötschen) Freestyle Ski and Snowboard (few disciplines not yet clear, others at Hausberg), in existence, after the games ski Resort as before

The reasons:

Garmisch-Partenkirchen is too small to host too many Events and it would destroy its charm.

On the way to Schönau there is Inzell. Ruhpolding is just a few kilometres from Inzell away. And Grötschen is not far away from Schönau and Berchtesgaden. Salzburg is also not far away. But necessary would be in my opinion a new railway Connection from Munich via Inzell/Ruhpolding directly to Berchtesgaden not via Freilassing which is almost Salzburg.

But Grötschen is not that necessary, Hausberg could easily host the rest.

And Munich doesn't need any new convention centres because we have a lot capacity in one of the biggest convention centres in Germany. Munich doesn't need a Speed Skating Oval either because there is one in Inzell and two high class halls in Erfurt and Berlin. Only the Richmond concept from 2010 would be an alternative to Inzell, but maybe one can copy and adjust it for the new Event-Arena.

Would it be possible to temporarily cover Allianz Arena and use it as an ice hockey or figure skating venue?

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Would it be possible to temporarily cover Allianz Arena and use it as an ice hockey or figure skating venue?

If:

1. The stands can be heated;

2. the dimensions of an ice hockey or FS rink can be laid cross-wise so only one end of the stadium is used; and

3. If they can hang lighting for the rink on the infield end; then

yes, Allianz could conceivably be used (the way they split the Georgia Dome in half in 1996 for basketball and gymnastics). But only if those 3 criteria above are met.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Gotta say, I'm not keen on halfpipe and freestyle going to the Olympiapark. I'm sure it's technically feasible, but just feel they SHOULD be up with the mountain-sports. It would be interesting to see what the IOC would feel about it.

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Gotta say, I'm not keen on halfpipe and freestyle going to the Olympiapark. I'm sure it's technically feasible, but just feel they SHOULD be up with the mountain-sports. It would be interesting to see what the IOC would feel about it.

In Vancouver they were not.

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Yes it was Cypress, but it was still separate from the other snow events in Whistler.

Still a mountain setting, though. I'm just not that comfortable yet with the notion of bringing such events "downtown".

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Still a mountain setting, though. I'm just not that comfortable yet with the notion of bringing such events "downtown".

Bischofswiesen (Grötschen) Is the proposed site I believe that is a mountain setting.

I don't think its possible for downtown to host snow events. Though if (and when) big air snowboard is added to the Olympic program that event is most likely to be held in the downtown of the host city.

Edited by intoronto
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Bischofswiesen (Grötschen) Is the proposed site I believe that is a mountain setting.

I don't think its possible for downtown to host snow events. Though if (and when) big air snowboard is added to the Olympic program that event is most likely to be held in the downtown of the host city.

The comment came back to the post by CAF on th previous page, mentioning that the Munich mayor's office is floating proposals for venue tweaks from the 2018 plan, with one of the suggestions being the freestyle and halfpipe be moved to the Olympiapark in Munich city.

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The comment came back to the post by CAF on th previous page, mentioning that the Munich mayor's office is floating proposals for venue tweaks from the 2018 plan, with one of the suggestions being the freestyle and halfpipe be moved to the Olympiapark in Munich city.

Interesting to say the least. I'd have to agree with you.

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Still a mountain setting, though. I'm just not that comfortable yet with the notion of bringing such events "downtown".

Seems to be a very *X Games* kind of concept I think. And believe me, some of those urban halfpipe events can be spectacular, but I'd have to agree that when it comes to the most prestigious winter sport festival in the world - it has to be up in those mountains.

In saying all of that though ...... if there was to be a different venue for it in Munich, the Olympic Park would be the one. I've only seen it up close in summer, but have seen a few winter photos, and it looks stunning.

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The three clusters concept was taken out of consideration for the 2018 bid mainly because of a very simple reason: Albertville. Winter bid cities tend to avoid a comparison with Albertville like hell - and I think a cluster consisting of several different municipalities (like the Schönau/Ruhpolding/Inzell/Bischofswiesen concept) would probably remind the IOC far too much of Albertville which almost hosted each sport in a different municipality.

The other problem is that you can't sensibly stage the nordic combined when the ski jumping has to take place in Garmisch and the cross-country event has to take place in Ruhpolding. That's why they decided to plan a temporary biathlon and cross-country venue in Schwaiganger (near Garmisch) for 2018. And if they built a cross-country venue in Schwaiganger also for 2022, you might ask why they shouldn't use it for biathlon as well. It would be cheaper than preparing Schwaiganger and Ruhpolding for Olympic competition.

So I understand the point that the number of events in small Garmisch should be reduced. But as you can see, it's very problematic to find a different solution if one doesn't want to become a second Albertville and impose severe logistic problems at least on the nordic combined athletes, coaches and officials.

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