Sacramento Studies 2022 Winter Olympic Bid

[GBModerator]

Representatives from the California Winter Games Committee (CWGC) reported to Sacramento City Council Tuesday about progress the committee is making to join the bidding process

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[alphamale86]

I need a little more clarification. Is the Article saying that they are considering Sacramento in place of Lake Tahoe? for the joint city bid?

[FYI]

So let me see if I understand this article correctly. Is this group suggesting a Lake Tahoe "core", where the opening & closing ceremonies would take place, & the Ice events be shared between Reno & Sacramento? Although, I didn't even see Reno mentioned in the article. All it said was "Nevada", maybe meaning just the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe? What does Reno say about this? Baron, any ideas on this?

[baron-pierreIV]

I need a little more clarification. Is the Article saying that they are considering Sacramento in place of Lake Tahoe? for the joint city bid?

No. No. Sacramento will share in the "ice events." My earlier understanding and my own speculation is that maybe the ice hockey and probably ONE more ice event would be sub-parceled to Sacramento; and its own dedicated village. So the entire ice hockey community (men, women, the federation) will be stationed in Sacramento. But the Nevadans will still take the lead with the snow and slopes events. Squaw Valley I'm afraid will only fit in for ceremonial purposes. Reno would only give up figure skating, the gem of a WOGs, if they can't get a 20,000-seat arena in place and if Sacramento can provide that. So the temporary basketball arena situation in London is being looked at very closely for Reno.

[Athensfan]

Any concept including Sacramento, Tahoe and Reno is way too spread out. Tahoe cannot be the site of the ceremonies. There isn't enough infrastructure, much less a venue. If they could somehow make the Games Lake Tahoe 2022/2026 it would be better, but that looks totally impossible. Tahoe cannot be the central hub. Drive times to Sacramento are far too long. Theyre grasping at straws and it's not going to work.

[baron-pierreIV]

The article isn't very precise. Sacramento, at most, and as I've always posted earlier -- will just be a Site B for "ice" events that can't find space in Reno.

Wheels for 2022-26 are a-turning.

That'll give NYC, Chicago, Philly and SF more time for r 2036 and forward.

[Athensfan]

The article isn't very precise. Sacramento, at most, and as I've always posted earlier -- will just be a Site B for "ice" events that can't find space in Reno.

I hear you, but that's still much, much more decentralized and spread out than what the IOC has chosen in Sochi and PC. I don't see it working. As a city, Sacramento has much more to recommend it than Reno. It's just too far away.

You can't treat hockey and potentially figure skating (the fact that that's even a question speaks volumes) as if theyre the Winter version of equestrian events or sailing. They're marquee events. Competing bids will offer much more compact, visitor-friendly Games.

[baron-pierreIV]

. Competing bids will offer much more compact, visitor-friendly Games.

Which ones? Thomas Bach has already pre-empted another renewed Munich bid. Read in between the lines: I do not want their bid detracting from "my" run for the IOC presidency in 2013. And I think he has the Berlin people helping to dampen another Munich bid.

Davos and St. Moritz? How far are they from each other, vs. Tahoe and Sacramento? And those are villages compared to the lodging capacities of Reno and the Tahoe communities. At most, Sac'to will just get ice hockey. Sac'to is just dreaming bigger per the article. Doesn't mean they will get more than the (M&W) hockey events. The IOC can adjust to any situation presented to them.

Besides, 2022/26 is really North America's turn again. We just have to seize it.

[Athensfan]

There's a campaign slogan "You Just Need to Adjust!"

Adjust to trashy casino culture! (Monte Carlo or Vegas it ain't)

Adjust to the most decentralized Games in modern memory!

Adjust to interminable travel times!

Throw your priorities out the window and vote Reno!!!!

[FYI]

You can't treat hockey and potentially figure skating (the fact that that's even a question speaks volumes) as if theyre the Winter version of equestrian events or sailing. They're marquee events. Competing bids will offer much more compact, visitor-friendly Games.

I have to agree with this. When was there ever a Winter Olympics that spread out the *main* events of the Games like this. The only Winter Games that I can recall that were really spread-out were Albertville. And those were highly criticized Games because of that.

I'm really coming to a quandary here & realizing that neither a Winter nor Summer Olympic bid seems to be feasible for the U.S. at this point. And perhaps that's one of the reasons why the USOC doesn't seem to be in any particular hurry to come to a revenue deal with the IOC.

[Athensfan]

Munich, Oslo, Nice/Toulouse, Barcelona, Ostersund, St. Moritz/Davos, Helsinki.

All have been rumored to be interested. Several will bid. All would be superior to Reno. I can't see any of them proposing three different cities spaced as far apart as Reno, Tahoe and Sacramento.

[baron-pierreIV]

why the USOC doesn't seem to be in any particular hurry to come to a revenue deal with the IOC.

Well, they have to. The present terms expire in 2020...up to which time the last big NBC pot is valid. So I don't know what they can hold out for past 2020.

[Athensfan]

Well, they have to. The present terms expire in 2020...up to which time the last big NBC pot is valid. So I don't know what they can hold out for past 2020.

They've got years to figure that out yet. If hosting isn't on the horizon anyway, there's no real motivation.

I agree with FYI. Neither Summer nor Winter is a slam dunk (or even close).

For the time being, I'm more interested in Summer. Why not? If Winter's looking improbable/unworkable anyway.....

[baron-pierreIV]

Munich, Oslo, Nice/Toulouse, Barcelona, Ostersund, St. Moritz/Davos, Helsinki.

All have been rumored to be interested. Several will bid. All would be superior to Reno. I can't see any of them proposing three different cities spaced as far apart as Reno, Tahoe and Sacramento.

Munich - already explained.

Oslo - Nah. Norway just got the 2016 YOGs. Besides I think the 800m drop slopes are around Lillehammer; none closer.

Nice-Toulouse - Nice and Toulouse are 293 mi apart as the crow flies. French won't have another WOGs until the 2040s.

Barcelona? Those Spaniards keep dreaming.

Ostersund? How? Are is 2-3 hours away. That's why an Ostersund-Are bid never really advanced to reality.

St. Moritz-Davos? These are VILLAGES. St. Moritz population - 5,000+; Davos - 11,000+.

Helsink/Finland DOESN'T have the 800m drops. Those plans for artificial 800m drops are ludicrous. That's why the Finns only rule ski-jumping.

Logistically and technically, Reno-Tahoe-Sacramento is as GOOD or BETTER than any of those above.

[Athensfan]

Munich - already explained.

Oslo - Nah. Norway just got the 2016 YOGs. Besides I think the 800m drop slopes are around Lillehammer; none closer.

Nice-Toulouse - Sochi's taken care of that "tropical" anchor for the next few Games. Toulouse is also pretty far from Nice.

Barcelona? Those Spaniards keep dreaming.

Ostersund? How? Are is 2-3 hours away. That's why an Ostersund-Are bid never really advanced to reality.

St. Moritz-Davos? If the Swiss can get their act together. But even combined, these are VILLAGES.

Helsink/Finland DOESN'T have the 800m drops. Those plans for artificial 800m drops are ludicrous.

Logistically, Reno-Tahoe-Sacramento is as GOOD as any of those above.

I wouldn't count any of those bids out and I disagree with you on their viability in comparison to Reno. Logistically and aesthetically all would be superior. Most of your arguments are geopolitical not logistical anyway. As we've seen, Europe gets away with a ton in terms of geopolitics.

I wouldn't count out Munich or Norway just yet. Think of SA's reversals and Tokyo's unlikely ascendancy to front-runner status.

Nice would not be the same as Sochi and the French are getting itchy.

Ostersund may be miles from Are, but at least that's two centers rather than three. The distance from Sacramento to Reno isn't far off.

Barcelona. If Madrid loses, it will be compelling.

Helsinki. There's a desire to get back to Scandinavia. PC had geography against them. I wouldn't assume the Finns cant come up with something. It's probably easier than reinventing an entire city and finding a way to shrink travel distances.

St. Moritz/ Davos. Two charming Swiss villages in the Alps. You're right, it sounds awful. How can they hold a candle to Reno (choke). Again, they may be a little spread out, but it's only two clusters and it's been ages since the Swiss have hosted.

[Quaker2001]

This bid is starting to get a little muddle because now you have 2 groups out there working on this and when push comes to shove, are they working together or are they working against each other? An Olympics spread out from Sacramento all the way to Reno loses some of its punch. Sacramento makes sense because they're pushing hard for a new centerpiece arena, so this could be a big boon for them. Can't say the same about Reno and the 2 current arenas they have are pretty small, especially when an Olympic-sized ice surface comes into play.

So again, it depends on who the competition is. If it's a weak field, than Sactahreno might have a shot. But I still don't like what I'm seeing and if the decision has to be made that this Olympics is too spread out and something has to be sacrificed, I'd say Reno gets dropped before Sac-to.

St. Moritz/ Davos. Two charming Swiss villages in the Alps. You're right, it sounds awful. How can they hold a candle to Reno (choke). Again, they may be a little spread out, but it's only two clusters and it's been ages since the Swiss have hosted.

Takes more than a village to host an Olympics in the 21st century. Reno apparently can't even handle it on their own. So how are those 2 charming Swiss villages going to handle 2 hockey arenas and a figure skating/short track arena and a curling venue and a speed skating oval, all that in addition to the mountain venues. This isn't 1948 anymore.

[baron-pierreIV]

I wouldn't count any of those bids out and I disagree with you on their viability in comparison to Reno. Logistically and aesthetically all would be superior. Most of your arguments are geopolitical not logistical anyway. As we've seen, Europe gets away with a ton in terms of geopolitics.

I wouldn't count out Munich or Norway just yet. Think of SA's reversals and Tokyo's unlikely ascendancy to front-runner status.

Nice would not be the same as Sochi and the French are getting itchy.

Ostersund may be miles from Are, but at least that's two centers rather than three. The distance from Sacramento to Reno isn't far off.

Barcelona. If Madrid loses, it will be compelling.

Helsinki. There's a desire to get back to Scandinavia. PC had geography against them. I wouldn't assume the Finns cant come up with something. It's probably easier than reinventing an entire city and finding a way to shrink travel distances.

St. Moritz/ Davos. Two charming Swiss villages in the Alps. You're right, it sounds awful. How can they hold a candle to Reno (choke). Again, they may be a little spread out, but it's only two clusters and it's been ages since the Swiss have hosted.

Norway and Barcelona's chances are all over-rated and talk. Zaragoza was the MORe realistic Spanish site but even they were intimidated by Madris' quixotic quests. The Barcelona talk is for people who can't have enough of the Nice-Sochi palm-slopes dichotomy but where are Barcelona's slopes? Andorra? Arriba!!

Nice - Toulouse; Already said, almost 300 miles apart as the crow flies.

Ostersund-Are? The Swedes don't seem all that gung-ho for another WOGs nor a SOGs.

Davos-St. Moritz?

Helsinki's for people like Lord David here who create fantasy wish-lists and renderings. The WOGs need REAL slopes; not Dubai-manufactured ones.

[Athensfan]

Reno and Sacramento aren't mounting competing bids. They're working together. Sacramento is a much nicer city, but for manu reasons (which Baron and others have outlined previously) it's not a viable host city due to lack of winter character, distance from Tahoe, California budget, etc.

The Swiss will simply build venues. They know what's required. It's not as if they've forgotten a few sports or can't remember what decade they're in.

[FYI]

Doesn't Davos/St. Moritz already have most, if not all, of those venues anyway? That's at least what one of the European on here alluded to, anyway & emphasized Y the bid would be strong. And it's the Alps, & it's Switzerland (a winter sporting nation, tbw), so it would make sense.

And Sacramento has been hinted around before (instead of Reno), but never got much attention bcuz they never showed any interest. So R they interested now, bcuz Reno wants to rely on them anyway? And I agree, if this is coming out now, it does seem to be getting a bit befuddled.

[Athensfan]

Baron, I seriously doubt anyone will see all those cities in the incompetent light in which you portray them. You would've argued just as strongly (if not moreso) for why Sochi and PC would have no chance if they were bidding for 2022 against Reno. These arguments won't play out in reality.

[baron-pierreIV]

U (Athensfan) forget: there should be plenty of snow. The city events are held INDOORS. Cameras pick and CHOOSE what they want to focus on. If it'll hurt your eyes, go for the night shots. There's a fix for every challenge.

[FYI]

Nice - Toulouse; Already said, almost 300 miles apart as the crow flies.

Helsinki's for people like Lord David here who create fantasy wish-lists and renderings. The WOGs need REAL slopes; not Dubai-manufactured ones.

Actually, it's Nice OR Toulouse, not jointly.

And maybe we should ask him for his Helsinki "proposal". Then again, maybe not, lmfao!

[Athensfan]

Actually, it's Nice OR Toulouse, not jointly.

And maybe we should ask him for his Helsinki "proposal". Then again, maybe not, lmfao!

I know it's either/or. I just lumped the French bids together.

[baron-pierreIV]

Baron, I seriously doubt anyone will see all those cities in the incompetent light in which you portray them. You would've argued just as strongly (if not moreso) for why Sochi and PC would have no chance if they were bidding for 2022 against Reno. These arguments won't play out in reality.

Where did I say they were 'incompetent'? If Reno, with an inner city pop of 225,000; and an entire metro area of under 700,000 CAN'T accommodate all the indoor, ice events...BUT has the WHOLE Sierra Nevada backyard to take care of the snow-slopes events with lodging to spare; how can tiny villages of 5,000 (St. Moritz) and 11,000 (Davos) cope? Will they have berths for cruise ships to accommodate the 200,000 visitor crush of 2 weeks?

By 2022-26, the Winter Games will have grown to a size that the zero-growth European resorts that you've listed won't be able to cope with...not unless they go on an overnight building spree a la Sochi.

[Athensfan]

You argued that all the European bids are deficient due to lack of geography, infrastructure or both. That suggests you see them as incompetent.