Jump to content
yukke14

National Stadium(1964 Olympic Stadium)

Recommended Posts

I really don't understand why they're building a roof that only covers the upper tier in the new design. London did this, but only because the stadium was designed to be downsized after the Games. Getting rid of the retractable roof is a good idea to save costs, but building a stadium where not every seat is covered is going too far the other way. Seems a bit stingy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the reason they only want partial roofing is because they know it will work for Japan. Already, three former WC stadiums including the largest stadium in Japan (as of now) have partial roofs. They all still draw crowds, and there haven't been any project to extend the roofs either. Here are some examples:

International Stadium Yokohama is roofed only over the top tier.

obbuAuB.jpg

zSwCVgu.jpg

Miyagi Stadium is also partial, but not exactly in the sense of top tier only.

PeQ2A9b.jpg

b9S0dut.jpg

Nagai Stadium has the same type of partial as Miyagi. Strangely enough, it has retractable seating!

NQNbkRU.jpg

QPKHOUJ.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you remember, I posted a photo of a design posted on a blog about the New National Stadium.

HhCMZuc.png

I just recently saw that it was featured on a television show! It seems that others agree that this style of simplicity is what Japan really should have.

IdP91Mn.png

Those designs both appear to have only a single seating tier, which would probably give a capacity similar to the 1964 stadium, much lower than the 70-80,000 we would expect nowadays for an Olympic stadium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's just a very basic concept to show to what extent the stadium can be changed towards functionality versus design prowess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's just a very basic concept to show to what extent the stadium can be changed towards functionality versus design prowess.

Yes- but I'd argue that it's too basic, to the point of being dishonest about the fundamental parameters for the new stadium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't understand why they're building a roof that only covers the upper tier in the new design. London did this, but only because the stadium was designed to be downsized after the Games. Getting rid of the retractable roof is a good idea to save costs, but building a stadium where not every seat is covered is going too far the other way. Seems a bit stingy.

Because #1 - they can charge a little more for those seats in whatever limited time the upper tier will exist;

#2 - Tokyo can be rainy in the summer. So covered upper tier will cut down on the bigger drainage allowances on the lower tier; and

#3 - more importantly, it will provide the rim onto which night lighting will be attached w/o resorting to those giant pillars with a whole mass of lights attached to them. The lighting on a roof rim will be more gradual, even, less diffused -- and is probably what NBC and the IOC's own broadcast unit demand in order to produce quality night broadcasting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's just a very basic concept to show to what extent the stadium can be changed towards functionality versus design prowess.

To add on to JMarkSnow2012, if the preliminary designs are too basic and too generic, it defeats the purpose of even having a "concept."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't understand why they're building a roof that only covers the upper tier in the new design. London did this, but only because the stadium was designed to be downsized after the Games. Getting rid of the retractable roof is a good idea to save costs, but building a stadium where not every seat is covered is going too far the other way. Seems a bit stingy.

Living in a rainy city with a stadium built the same way, it works fine. It also encourages savings in the footprint size of the stadium, which is probably just as important a concern as cost, since they can create a highly angled second tier that juts out over the lower bowl. That saves space, creates better views from the upper deck and also partially protects the lower seating area from rain.

618_348_boomers-short-list-of-greatest-s

The downside is shadows and less circulation of air. They probably wouldn't be able to use a natural grass field with these changes. It would also make it rather hot in the stands with direct sun and less movement of air. It doesn't matter in Seattle but I imagine it could be somewhat painful in Tokyo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little bit of information on what has been a slow few weeks for news about Tokyo 2020. I found a Huffington Post article explaining that while the government is starting from scratch, the stadium will still sit on what can only be described as raised land that existed mostly as proposed in Hadid's plan and if you look back, in about all the proposed designs by other architects. The reason for this of course is that if they tried to build all 68,000 seats from ground level and up, it would be much taller and wider in all directions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.jp/takashi-moriyama/national-stadium-plan_b_8131166.html?ncid=tweetlnkjphpmg00000001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little bit of information on what has been a slow few weeks for news about Tokyo 2020. I found a Huffington Post article explaining that while the government is starting from scratch, the stadium will still sit on what can only be described as raised land that existed mostly as proposed in Hadid's plan and if you look back, in about all the proposed designs by other architects. The reason for this of course is that if they tried to build all 68,000 seats from ground level and up, it would be much taller and wider in all directions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.jp/takashi-moriyama/national-stadium-plan_b_8131166.html?ncid=tweetlnkjphpmg00000001

Hmmm.

Article borrowed, in best HuffPo tradition, from the blog of (in Google translation) "architecture economist Moriyama" who, judging from the blog and Twitter account, is not very happy about the construction aspects of Tokyo 2020.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you were looking for evidence that Hadid's efforts will not come to fruition, here are some excerpts of an Inside the Games article:

Architects of scrapped Tokyo 2020 stadium warn of "lower-quality" design

Zaha Hadid Architects have warned the competition process for the construction of the much-maligned Tokyo 2020 National Stadium could cause a “lower-quality” venue to be built which may cost “much more than anticipated”.

The London-based firm, who were behind the construction of the Aquatics Centre used for the 2012 Olympic Games, have teamed up with Japanese company Nikken Sekkei to form updated plans to design the Tokyo stadium after their initial idea was scrapped in July.

But with just one day remaining until the company who will be awarded the construction contract is revealed, they have yet to find a suitable construction contractor to help carry out the project.

This has prompted them to claim the process has “restricted the existing design team, as well as many other Japanese and international architects that may wish to take part, from entering the new competition without a construction contractor”.

They have, however, vowed to “deliver the most cost-effective Stadium of the highest quality for the people of Japan that builds on their investment in the two years of comprehensive design work, is ready in good time for the 2020 Games and provides a new home for sport in Japan for generations to come”.

“These restrictions risk the project again facing the problem of a lack of competition between contractors that has led to increased construction costs and major delays,” a Zaha Hadid statement read.

“The risk also remains that a restricted competition with the fixed construction deadline will lead to a rushed design and lower quality Stadium that costs more than anticipated, may not be ready in time and does not provide for a sustainable and productive long term use.

“The design team remains ready to work with a construction contractor, the National Government and Tokyo Metropolitan authority to deliver a revised National Stadium design of the highest standards and value for money, ready for all athletes and spectators of the Tokyo 2020 Games, and go on to host national, international, local and community events for the next 50-100 years.”

The development comes after Japanese Prime Minister Shinzō Abe scrapped the original plan for the Stadium last month, due to be built on the site of the arena used for the 1964 Olympics, in the face of public criticism after its costs rose to ¥252 billion (£1.3 billion/$2 billion/€1.8 billion), nearly twice original estimates.

The Japanese Government announced a revised budget of JPY ¥155 billion (£800 million/€1.1 billion/$1.3 billion) but concerns still remain over whether a suitable venue can be constructed in the relatively short time-frame.

It was due to be used as part of Japan’s hosting of the 2019 Rugby World Cup and Zaha Hadid have claimed they would be able to get it ready in time for the event in four years’ time should they be awarded the construction contract.

The timeline remains tight, with the Government having put forward a final completion date of March 2020, although they will aim to be ready two months earlier in January in order to comply with an International Olympic Committee (IOC) request.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1030244/zaha-hadid-warn-lower-quality-tokyo-2020-national-stadium-could-be-constructed-due-to-restrictive-competition-process

What does this mean? No Japanese contractors want to work with Hadid. Maybe they aren't capable to build it or they just don't like the design. It seems that whatever contractor is chosen, it may become harder for Hadid to stick with the bike helmet design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you believe in miracles? It's official. Hadid gave up. No contractors were able (or wanted) to work with her.

The chosen contractors are the Taisei Corporation and the Takenaka Corporation, the same two as before given that they both already built up enough laborers for the project.

http://m.huffpost.com/jp/entry/8156996

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I read somewhere else that the track will be permanent, meaning that they wont rip up the track for the extra seats for a future world cup bid. I suppose think London but dismountable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you believe in miracles? It's official. Hadid gave up.

Yes.

Zaha Hadid abandons new 2020 Tokyo Olympics stadium bid

The British-Iraqi architect Zaha Hadid has abandoned her attempt to re-enter the race to build the main stadium for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, two months after her initial design was scrapped amid soaring construction costs.
Hadid’s office said it had been unable to find a construction company to work with – a condition of a new competition to find an alternative design for the Games’ architectural centrepiece.
“It is disappointing that the two years of work and investment in the existing design for a new national stadium for Japan cannot be further developed to meet the new brief through the new design competition,” a spokesman for Zaha Hadid Architects in London said in a statement on Friday.
Earlier this month, the firm said it had teamed up with the Japanese engineering company Nikken Sekkei to submit a fresh bid. The firms said at the time that they would be able to “quickly develop a comprehensive and fully costed design”.
“In partnership with a committed construction contractor we can deliver the most cost-effective delivery plan that will ensure the new national stadium is ready in good time for the preparations ahead of Tokyo 2020,” they said.
On Friday, however, the firms announced they had been unable to find a construction company to join their consortium and were unable to enter the competition.
The original design competition in 2012, in which Hadid’s entry beat 45 other submissions, did not require bidders to find a contractor beforehand. The addition of the contractor had proved restrictive, a source familiar with the process told the Guardian.
Hadid’s original design for the stadium, which was also due to host several matches during the 2019 Rugby World Cup, was cancelled in July at the request of the prime minister, Shinzo Abe, after costs ballooned to 252bn yen (£1.3bn), almost twice the initial estimate.
The government was forced to apologise for wasting billions of taxpayers’ money, as it had already paid around 6.2bn yen to Hadid, as well as other architects and construction firms, when it cancelled the stadium.
The stadium’s size and futuristic design drew criticism from some architects and Tokyo residents, with it being likened to a bicycle helmet, a turtle and a toilet seat.
While Japan blamed rising costs on the stadium’s design, Hadid’s firm said organisers had practically guaranteed that costs would rise by selecting a limited number of domestic construction companies too early in the process.
Under revised guidelines recently announced by the government, the cost of the Olympic stadium will be capped at 155bn yen, far lower than the most recent estimate of 250bn yen for Hadid’s initial design.
The number of seats has been reduced from 72,000 to 68,000, with another 12,000 to be added after the Games to meet the 80,000 minimum required in case Japan launches a bid to host the football World Cup.

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/sep/18/zaha-hadid-abandons-plans-2020-tokyo-olympics

The chosen contractors are the Taisei Corporation and the Takenaka Corporation, the same two as before given that they both already built up enough laborers for the project.

Not only those 2 firms.Takenaka, Simizu and Obayashi will join as one team.Japanese media says Taisei will work together with Kengo Kuma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kengo_Kuma and Takenaka+Shimizu+Obayashi will work with Toyo Ito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyo_Ito.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully they come up with some good designs this time around. I'm anxious to see renders..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tokyo Olympics: Sports Minister resigns over stadium problems

Japan's Education and Sports Minister Hakubun Shimomura has tendered his resignation over cancelled plans for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Stadium.

British-Iraqi architect Zaha Hadid's original design was ditched in July as estimated building costs almost doubled, reaching $2bn (£1.3bn).

Mr Shimomura said he had been asked to stay on until a planned cabinet reshuffle, but would repay some salary.

A new stadium design is due to be chosen by November.

Concerns have already been raised about whether that design will be completed in time for 2020 - the first time the city has hosted the Summer Games since 1964.

As well as objections to its ballooning cost, Ms Hadid's design was criticised by some in Tokyo for its similarly huge size and its unusual shape.

A close ally of conservative Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, Mr Shimomura runs the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, which is in charge of overseeing the Olympic Games.

Speaking at a press conference at his ministry following a meeting with the prime minister, Mr Shimomura said he told Mr Abe he wanted to take responsibility for the stadium problems.

"It is true that this has caused much concern and inconvenience," he said.

He added that he had first heard of the inflating costs and delays in April, "which is why I have decided to return the six months' worth of pay I have received from that day onwards".

His offer to quit came after an independent investigation into the fiasco.

Local reports said the panel pinned responsibility on the government body overseeing the project, the Japan Sports Council, and Mr Shimomura's ministry. Former Prime Minister Yoshiro Mori, president of Tokyo's organising committee, was also blamed.

...

BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34355794

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:( Now that's a politician with integrity!!! <_<

Japan can build this stadium faster than you can boil a jug of water. Whatever comes next, we live with.

This is not only a Japan problem. OTT stadium iconic one off designs that are stupidly unrealistic seem to be the norm...Thanks to the wealthy money wasting Gulf states.

It's great that modern architects are free to let their minds go...But sometimes they get too far ahead for the times they live in (Sydney Opera House anyone?). What gets tripped up are the sports events they are being built for...

This stadium was to be finished to host the 2019 Rugby World Cup. Japan is left in a very rare situation for them...Unable to deliver. :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex, the Sydney Opera House might've looked crazy at the time, but now it's an indisputable icon of Australia, one of the world's must see buildings. If you want a building by a major architect that'll become iconic around the world, it ain't gonna be cheap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex, the Sydney Opera House might've looked crazy at the time, but now it's an indisputable icon of Australia, one of the world's must see buildings. If you want a building by a major architect that'll become iconic around the world, it ain't gonna be cheap.

That's not true. The issue is that modern architects learn art but don't learn engineering, and thus design structures that are difficult to construct. For example the Eiffel Tower did not go over time or budget and paid off its construction costs with ticket sales in a few months. And that happened primarily because it was designed by an engineer.

Why cities think it is appropriate to choose an architect based on a render or drawing without asking an engineer or construction firm if it is feasible to build the damn thing I will never understand.

Edited by Nacre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given this new schedule released today...

lcXiO6Y.png

We should expect the renders/documents towards the end of November but most likely in early December and a final decision in mid-December.


http://www.jpnsport.go.jp/newstadium/Portals/0/shinsaiinkai/1006_sinsaiinkai4_siryou%2001.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you were curious if anything has happened, then don't worry. News has been very slow. Here is a story that I just found, but it's not much.

Japan's Olympics Minister has briefed a senior member of the International Olympic Committee on the country's plan for the new main stadium for the 2020 Tokyo Games.

Toshiaki Endo met IOC Coordination Commission Chair John Coates in Tokyo on Tuesday.

They were joined by the head of Tokyo's organizing committee, Yoshiro Mori, sports minister Hiroshi Hase and sports agency chief Daichi Suzuki.

Endo explained that Japan's Cabinet decided in August to limit the cost of building the new stadium to 155 billion yen, or about 1.3 billion dollars.

He also explained the process by which its designer and builder would be chosen.

Endo said Japan aims to complete the project by January 2020, and that he is hoping for proposals that will meet the IOC's requests. Coates thanked their efforts.

It's still very costly, but it's better than what they had before. At this point, this might be the lowest the price can (conceptually) be before they resort to heavy use of temporary facilities. Since it's already been established the track will be permanent (not removed after the games for more seats), there will still be light use of temporary seating whenever they think they need the full 80,000.


http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/news/20151013_24.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As we wait to see the designs of Kengo Kuma and Toyo Ito as they are expected to be released as December ends, I found a design that is not official, but I think is an interesting idea proposed by designer Shuhei Endo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.jp/takashi-moriyama/new-national-stadium_b_8579360.html

PFXjVwy.jpg

1JLzOCt.jpg

zKn2o1P.jpgRFf9NmO.jpg

Kws9Meo.jpg9PjiA6T.jpg

DlsuII6.jpg8h0HpyJ.jpg

1Y10ezV.jpg4d62yUk.jpg

4d62yUk.jpgWU9eJUC.jpg

FJ5uggz.jpgtVOXUXb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As we wait to see the designs of Kengo Kuma and Toyo Ito as they are expected to be released as December ends, I found a design that is not official, but I think is an interesting idea proposed by designer Shuhei Endo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.jp/takashi-moriyama/new-national-stadium_b_8579360.html

PFXjVwy.jpg

1JLzOCt.jpg

zKn2o1P.jpgRFf9NmO.jpg

Kws9Meo.jpg9PjiA6T.jpg

DlsuII6.jpg8h0HpyJ.jpg

1Y10ezV.jpg4d62yUk.jpg

4d62yUk.jpgWU9eJUC.jpg

FJ5uggz.jpgtVOXUXb.jpg

That actually looks way better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want a building by a major architect that'll become iconic around the world, it ain't gonna be cheap.

Nope.

Take a look at Barcelona's Sagrada Familia. It's been over 100 years and it's still not finished. They're focusing on completion by 2026, which is the 100-year anniversary of the designer Antoni Gaudi's death. It's averaging about 25 million euros to maintain the place and continue the construction. There's no telling the final cost of the damn thing, easily over 1 billion adjusted for inflation I'm sure. But it's the iconic building for Barcelona, and averages over 3 million visitors a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...