National Stadium(1964 Olympic Stadium)

[LatinXTC]

Like who really cares? Or are you just wanting to trash Atlanta again??

Don't get your adult diapers in a bunch this isn't about the atrocious opening ceremony Atlanta gave us in 1996 this is about the use of taxpayer money to build a new stadium when they haven't even finished paying off the old stadium.

[baron-pierreIV]

Don't get your adult diapers in a bunch this isn't about the atrocious opening ceremony Atlanta gave us in 1996 this is about the use of taxpayer money to build a new stadium when they haven't even finished paying off the old stadium.

Well, that's one person's opinion. I don't know if taxpayer $$ was used for Turner Field. I thought Ted Turner and his team advanced whatever monies were needed. Anyway, it shouldn't matter for a structure that's getting demolished anyway. They can probably sell those seats again like they did with the north half when that was demolished.

[bairrosfelipe]

I've been checking the price of the 2014 Cup stadiums in Brazil. From what I understand the Japanese are crazy. Only the budget of the reform of the National Olympic Stadium is greater than all the 12 World Cup Stadiums.

[neneu10]

Just found this pic

[Bastien A.]

Unexpected is the word.

I thought this would be more minimalist, it's already the case (simple shapes) in some way but at the end by assembling them I lose this feeling.

There's a certain potential in this but I'm waiting to see where they will go with this: could be great or bad (actually I'm concerned by the pattern they will put on the banners everywhere in venues, I hope it's not the one we can see at the top of their website 'cuz it looks dated. Personally I feel they should work color by color, not all of them in one design or try something else.

The colors look bland, I'd rather have a good deep black than shades of grey (feels dated) even the red dot could be stronger. Lack of energy, it could be a good design for contemporary art event or restaurant identity but olympics?...

I also note that: the logo looks really heavy on the typo, the space between them should have been bigger.

Overall, I like the fact they took the risk to try something different in olympics habits, will it worth it? I hope.

My biggest disappointment is the lack of energy, mainly comes from the colors. Shapes thing is interesting though.

Good luck Tokyo 2020 !

[Bastien A.]

My bad I posted it in the wrong topic. Can someone tell me how to delete it please or a moderator? ^^ Thank you.

[phandrosis]

Unexpected is the word.

I thought this would be more minimalist, it's already the case (simple shapes) in some way but at the end by assembling them I lose this feeling.

There's a certain potential in this but I'm waiting to see where they will go with this: could be great or bad (actually I'm concerned by the pattern they will put on the banners everywhere in venues, I hope it's not the one we can see at the top of their website 'cuz it looks dated. Personally I feel they should work color by color, not all of them in one design or try something else.

The colors look bland, I'd rather have a good deep black than shades of grey (feels dated) even the red dot could be stronger. Lack of energy, it could be a good design for contemporary art event or restaurant identity but olympics?...

I also note that: the logo looks really heavy on the typo, the space between them should have been bigger.

Overall, I like the fact they took the risk to try something different in olympics habits, will it worth it? I hope.

My biggest disappointment is the lack of energy, mainly comes from the colors. Shapes thing is interesting though.

Good luck Tokyo 2020 !

...did you mean to post this in the logo thread? http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/topic/24984-tokyo-2020-official-logo/page-21

oh sorry my bad i didn't realize there was another page and missed your statement

[woohooitsme83]

Maybe the new stadium design can reflect the logo?

[Martijn]

New National Stadium, Tokyo, Japan Statement by Zaha Hadid Architects

Our teams in Japan and the UK feel it is necessary to set the record straight on the Zaha Hadid Architects (ZHA) design for the new National Stadium for Japan, which has been developed to the client’s brief and budget. It is also only right that the Japanese people are fully aware of the reasons for the reported budget increase and, with exactly five years to go until the Opening Ceremony of the Tokyo 2020 Games, the risks involved with delaying the design process and start of construction.

In 2012 ZHA was selected by a jury of architects and other experts in an international competition of 46 entries to design a new National Stadium for Japan, which would be ready to welcome the world to Japan for the Rugby World Cup 2019 and Tokyo 2020 Games. We were attracted to the competition by Japan’s vision for a new National Stadium that was designed with the flexibility to open with these two great events and go on to host national, international, local and community sport and cultural events for the next 50 to 100 years.

The design was developed by a joint venture of leading Japanese design offices led by Nikken Sekkei, with ZHA supervising the design development. The team dedicated thousands of hours to develop a design for a new National Stadium to the brief, requirements and budget of our client, the Japan Sport Council (JSC). At every stage over the two years of development, the design and budget estimates were approved by the JSC. ZHA worked proactively to reduce the estimated cost throughout.

For the first time in the construction of a public building in Japan, a two-stage tender process was used, in which contractors are appointed before being invited to submit cost estimates. As ZHA has considerable experience in this process we advised the JSC that working to an immovable completion deadline, against a backdrop of rocketing annual increases in the cost of building in Tokyo, and in the absence of any international competition, the early selection of a limited number of construction contractors would not lead to a commercially competitive process.

Our warning was not heeded that selecting contractors too early in a heated construction market and without sufficient competition would lead to an overly high estimate of the cost of construction.

ZHA also proposed to the JSC that, in this uncompetitive context, reductions to the client’s brief for the stadium, architectural specification and contractor costs would achieve a lower construction price. ZHA has always been prepared to work with the JSC to produce a lower cost design at any time. The budget and design was approved by the Government on 7th July and there was no subsequent request to design a lower cost stadium.

In response to the high costs quoted by the construction contractors, ZHA and all of the design team worked hard with the JSC to ensure the developing design was delivered to the brief and budget, coming up with many cost-saving initiatives including further changes to the design. We also provided objective guidance on the standard materials and building techniques required to build the Stadium. In our experience the best way to deliver high-quality and cost-effective projects is for the selected designers to work in collaboration with the construction contractor and client as a single team with a single aim. However, we were not permitted to work with the construction contractors, again increasing the risk of unnecessarily high cost estimates and delays in completion.

On 7th July a JSC report to the Stadium advisory committee, using figures provided by the appointed construction contractors, incorrectly claimed that the design was responsible for most of the increase in budget. ZHA was not informed in advance of this announcement and we immediately contested this incorrect claim with the JSC. Commentary of the report focused on the steel arches within the design. These arches are not complex and use standard bridge building technology to support the lightweight and strong polymer membrane roof to cover all spectator seats, in addition to supporting the high-specification lighting and services that will enable the Stadium to host many international competitions and events in the future.

The arched roof structure is as efficient as many other major stadia in Japan and the arches allow the roof to be constructed in parallel with the stadium seating bowl, saving crucial construction time in comparison to a roof supported from the seating bowl, which can only be built after the bowl has been completed. The design and engineering teams in Japan confirmed the arches supporting the roof should cost 23 billion yen (less than 10% of the approved budget).

The increase in estimated budget reported by the JSC is in fact due to the inflated costs of construction in Tokyo, a restricted and an uncompetitive approach to appointing construction contractors and a restriction on collaboration between the design team and appointed construction contractors, not the design.

The current building boom in Tokyo increasing construction demand, a limited labour supply and the yen’s significant drop in value greatly increasing the price of imported raw materials have all contributed to Tokyo’s construction costs growing dramatically since 2012/2013 when the new National Stadium project was first announced and Tokyo was awarded the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Between July 2013 and July 2015, Tokyo construction costs increased by an average of 25% and are forecast to increase at a similar rate for the next four years.

Starting the design process again does not tackle any of the fundamental issues that have led to an increased estimate in budget for the National Stadium, which could in fact become even more problematic due to the significant further delay in starting building. Construction costs will continue to rise towards the immovable deadline of the Tokyo 2020 Games Opening Ceremony in exactly five years.

In addition to increasing design and construction costs, due to the rising cost of building in Tokyo, further delays and a rushed design process, led by a construction contractor, risk producing a lower standard National Stadium with limited future usage. Other examples around the world show us that a lower quality stadium could require substantial further investment to be converted for long-term use after 2020, when construction costs will be even higher.

The public, Government and design team have invested in a design that can be delivered through a more competitive procurement process and collaborative approach from construction contractors, within the budget now proposed by the Government and in time to host the Rugby 2019 World Cup.

We have always been, and still are, prepared to use the expertise and knowledge that has been developed to work with the JSC to produce a lower cost design to a change in specification.

Ten days after receiving formal approval of the design, ZHA learned through news reports of the cancellation of the commitment to deliver the approved design for the new National Stadium and commitment for the venue to be ready in time to host the Rugby World Cup 2019. Subsequently we received a brief official notification from the Japan Sport Council (JSC) of their cancellation of the contract to design the New National Stadium in Tokyo.

ZHA remain committed to a flexible and cost-effective new National Stadium that would be ready to welcome the world to Japan for the 2019 Rugby World Cup and become a new home for sport in Japan for many generations to come. The Japanese people, Government and design teams in Japan and the UK have invested a huge amount of time, effort and resources to deliver an adaptable design that can meet the brief and budget set by the Government for a new National Stadium.

To reduce the risk of further increases in costs, the venue not being ready in time for the Tokyo 2020 Games and being of lower quality, the Prime Minister’s review should build on the investment in the detailed design knowledge already established and focus on the need for construction contractors to work in partnership with this expert team.

We have written to the Prime Minister to offer our services to support his review of the project with the current design team. ZHA has also outlined how making use of the significant investment in detailed design work already carried out offers the most cost-effective solution to create the best new National Stadium for the people of Japan for the next 50-100 years.

In the coming weeks we also plan to share, in Japan and across the international design community, the many innovative solutions achieved through the years of work and investment that has gone into the design for the National Stadium.

END

http://www.zaha-hadid.com/2015/07/28/new-national-stadium-tokyo-japan-statement-by-zaha-hadid-architects/

[baron-pierreIV]

Oh God. My name isn't Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzaha for nothing.

So boring.

[phandrosis]

I wrote this response in SSC when someone posted the same thing.

In a way they are right, but at the same time wrong. We know prices went up due to the plain fact that construction prices in Tokyo rose as well. However, as proven before and surprisingly not stated in this article, the arches may have allowed for quicker construction of the roof, but they were at such an angle that they did not act as supporting arches, but almost decorative. Constructors would have had to shove several meters of steel rods into the ground to keep the roof up. So yes, part of the reason the price went up was due to general construction costs, but that doesn't mean that the design required such intense engineering to keep it standing up right.

I hope the JSC chooses something simple this time. Something like in Rome, Kiev, Berlin, etc. There is no need to sacrifice money and time for aesthetic in this case.

[baron-pierreIV]

With a response like that, ZHA must have charged not by the hour of work, but by the word -- hence a stadium costting $2 billion.

[phandrosis]

I found this while browsing the internet, and its style is similar to something I would personally like to see in 2020. Really, something basic would be just right. This design itself is too small (I think it states that the capacity is 40k), but it's a starting point approaching the new competition this fall.

source: http://greensite-jp.blogspot.jp/2015/07/blog-post.html

[runningrings]

Don't get your adult diapers in a bunch this isn't about the atrocious opening ceremony Atlanta gave us in 1996 this is about the use of taxpayer money to build a new stadium when they haven't even finished paying off the old stadium.

How was Atlanta's opening atrocious?

[Palette86]

Japan to give up plan to put retractable roof on Olympic stadium

The Japanese government intends to give up on putting a retractable roof on the new stadium for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics as it is reviewing the main venue's building plan after scrapping the earlier plan due to soaring costs, sources close to the matter said Tuesday.

Without the retractable roof, total construction costs will be held down and it will also allow the stadium to be completed by the spring of 2020, the deadline set by the government, the sources said.

Japan will, meanwhile, keep the capacity at 80,000 seats in accordance with the request from the Japan Football Association, which hopes to host the Soccer World Cup in the future, they said.

The retractable roof had been considered for non-sports events such as concerts but the government has decided to give up the plan given high maintenance costs and as adding the feature would make the construction period longer, the sources said.

The government aims to lay out costs and functions for the new National Stadium by this fall and choose a new design and builder through an international competition in a bid to complete the stadium by the spring of 2020.

The revision of the plan came after Prime Minister Shinzo Abe announced earlier this month an overhaul of the original construction plan for the main stadium due to ballooning costs.

Critics have said that initial design conceived by Iraqi-British architect Zaha Hadid, featuring two gigantic arches over the stadium and looking like a bicycle helmet, caused the stadium's projected construction costs to nearly double from the initially projected 130 billion yen ($1.1 billion).

But Hadid's firm dismissed the criticism, saying the building costs soared due to increasing construction demand in Tokyo, a limited labor supply and the yen's significant drop in value that raised the price of imported raw materials.

The architect's office also said Tuesday it has offered support for a review of the venue building plan in a letter sent to Abe.

"Starting the design process again does not tackle any of the fundamental issues that have led to an increased estimate in budget for the National Stadium, which could in fact become even more problematic due to the significant delay in starting building," Zaha Hadid Architects said in a statement.

Amid criticism over the way the government has handled the project to build the main stadium for the 2020 Games, the sports ministry said Tuesday a senior official in charge of construction of the new national stadium will quit and be replaced next week.

The sports ministry said Kimito Kubo, 58, will resign as director general of the Sports and Youth Bureau for personal reasons.

July 29,2015

News source:The Mainichi

Link to this article:http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20150729p2g00m0sp033000c.html

[phandrosis]

They've been fine for 50 years without a roof at all on the stadium, so a retractable roof was never necessary. There are several venues for concerts and such in the Tokyo area, so they don't need to spend extra for something they don't really need.

[LatinXTC]

How was Atlanta's opening atrocious?

Cheerleaders and GMC trucks.

Oh and also their whole Southern segment could have been WAY better than what they had planned. The only redeeming quality of the whole ceremony was the beginning with the drums, and the homage to the Ancient Olympic games in honor of the 100th anniversary of the modern games.

They've been fine for 50 years without a roof at all on the stadium, so a retractable roof was never necessary. There are several venues for concerts and such in the Tokyo area, so they don't need to spend extra for something they don't really need.

Also a retractable roof on a track and field stadium sounds ridiculously expensive. The US has managed to make them more affordable for NFL stadiums but of course that's a smaller structure.

[gotosy]

Tokyo Olympic Chief Apologizes to IOC Over Stadium Change

Japanese organizers apologized to the IOC on Wednesday over the scrapping of the original plans for the Olympic stadium and delivered assurances that the new venue will be ready in time for the 2020 Games.

The International Olympic Committee, meanwhile, said it would work with Japan on the new project to make sure "there are no surprises" this time.

Earlier this month, the Japanese government threw out the design plans for the flagship stadium amid public criticism of the 252 billion yen ($2 billion) price tag, which was nearly double the original estimate and would have made it the most expensive sports stadium ever.

The government said it would start over with a new design and construction competition. The move means the stadium will not be ready as planned for the 2019 Rugby World Cup in Japan, but Tokyo organizers and the IOC said they are confident it will be built in time for the games.

"I forthrightly extended our apologies regarding the change in plans for the national stadium," organizing committee head Yoshio Mori said after a meeting with IOC President Thomas Bach and his executive board in Kuala Lumpur. "But they said it was not necessary to feel apologetic. The IOC said that changes need to be made, and as long as the changes are made for the better, that is fine."

Bach said Japan's decision resulted from soaring construction costs that "have just gone through the roof" and were beyond the control of the organizing committee and the government.

"We respect and can understand in such times you would not like to build the most expensive stadium in the world," Bach said at a news conference. "What we need is a state-of-the-art stadium for athletes and spectators, and I'm sure we will get it."

Toshiro Muto, chief executive officer of the Tokyo organizing committee, said the Japanese will work to reduce costs despite the rising prices of construction materials.

"There will be an inflation (of prices) but we will make sure we minimize that," he said. "For us the priority is to have it completed before the Olympics. We are sure and confident the stadium will be completed on time."

...

AP

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/tokyo-olympic-chief-apologizes-ioc-stadium-change-32751130?singlePage=true

[Dave]

Zaha Hadid Architecture releases statement:

Our teams in Japan and the UK feel it is necessary to set the record straight on the Zaha Hadid Architects (ZHA) design for the new National Stadium for Japan, which has been developed to the client’s brief and budget. It is also only right that the Japanese people are fully aware of the reasons for the reported budget increase and, with exactly five years to go until the Opening Ceremony of the Tokyo 2020 Games, the risks involved with delaying the design process and start of construction.

In 2012 ZHA was selected by a jury of architects and other experts in an international competition of 46 entries to design a new National Stadium for Japan, which would be ready to welcome the world to Japan for the Rugby World Cup 2019 and Tokyo 2020 Games. We were attracted to the competition by Japan’s vision for a new National Stadium that was designed with the flexibility to open with these two great events and go on to host national, international, local and community sport and cultural events for the next 50 to 100 years.

The design was developed by a joint venture of leading Japanese design offices led by Nikken Sekkei, with ZHA supervising the design development. The team dedicated thousands of hours to develop a design for a new National Stadium to the brief, requirements and budget of our client, the Japan Sport Council (JSC). At every stage over the two years of development, the design and budget estimates were approved by the JSC. ZHA worked proactively to reduce the estimated cost throughout.

For the first time in the construction of a public building in Japan, a two-stage tender process was used, in which contractors are appointed before being invited to submit cost estimates. As ZHA has considerable experience in this process we advised the JSC that working to an immovable completion deadline, against a backdrop of rocketing annual increases in the cost of building in Tokyo, and in the absence of any international competition, the early selection of a limited number of construction contractors would not lead to a commercially competitive process.

Our warning was not heeded that selecting contractors too early in a heated construction market and without sufficient competition would lead to an overly high estimate of the cost of construction.

ZHA also proposed to the JSC that, in this uncompetitive context, reductions to the client’s brief for the stadium, architectural specification and contractor costs would achieve a lower construction price. ZHA has always been prepared to work with the JSC to produce a lower cost design at any time. The budget and design was approved by the Government on 7th July and there was no subsequent request to design a lower cost stadium.

In response to the high costs quoted by the construction contractors, ZHA and all of the design team worked hard with the JSC to ensure the developing design was delivered to the brief and budget, coming up with many cost-saving initiatives including further changes to the design. We also provided objective guidance on the standard materials and building techniques required to build the Stadium. In our experience the best way to deliver high-quality and cost-effective projects is for the selected designers to work in collaboration with the construction contractor and client as a single team with a single aim. However, we were not permitted to work with the construction contractors, again increasing the risk of unnecessarily high cost estimates and delays in completion.

On 7th July a JSC report to the Stadium advisory committee, using figures provided by the appointed construction contractors, incorrectly claimed that the design was responsible for most of the increase in budget. ZHA was not informed in advance of this announcement and we immediately contested this incorrect claim with the JSC. Commentary of the report focused on the steel arches within the design. These arches are not complex and use standard bridge building technology to support the lightweight and strong polymer membrane roof to cover all spectator seats, in addition to supporting the high-specification lighting and services that will enable the Stadium to host many international competitions and events in the future.

The arched roof structure is as efficient as many other major stadia in Japan and the arches allow the roof to be constructed in parallel with the stadium seating bowl, saving crucial construction time in comparison to a roof supported from the seating bowl, which can only be built after the bowl has been completed. The design and engineering teams in Japan confirmed the arches supporting the roof should cost 23 billion yen (less than 10% of the approved budget).

The increase in estimated budget reported by the JSC is in fact due to the inflated costs of construction in Tokyo, a restricted and an uncompetitive approach to appointing construction contractors and a restriction on collaboration between the design team and appointed construction contractors, not the design.

The current building boom in Tokyo increasing construction demand, a limited labour supply and the yen’s significant drop in value greatly increasing the price of imported raw materials have all contributed to Tokyo’s construction costs growing dramatically since 2012/2013 when the new National Stadium project was first announced and Tokyo was awarded the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Between July 2013 and July 2015, Tokyo construction costs increased by an average of 25% and are forecast to increase at a similar rate for the next four years.

Starting the design process again does not tackle any of the fundamental issues that have led to an increased estimate in budget for the National Stadium, which could in fact become even more problematic due to the significant further delay in starting building. Construction costs will continue to rise towards the immovable deadline of the Tokyo 2020 Games Opening Ceremony in exactly five years.

In addition to increasing design and construction costs, due to the rising cost of building in Tokyo, further delays and a rushed design process, led by a construction contractor, risk producing a lower standard National Stadium with limited future usage. Other examples around the world show us that a lower quality stadium could require substantial further investment to be converted for long-term use after 2020, when construction costs will be even higher.

The public, Government and design team have invested in a design that can be delivered through a more competitive procurement process and collaborative approach from construction contractors, within the budget now proposed by the Government and in time to host the Rugby 2019 World Cup.

We have always been, and still are, prepared to use the expertise and knowledge that has been developed to work with the JSC to produce a lower cost design to a change in specification.

Ten days after receiving formal approval of the design, ZHA learned through news reports of the cancellation of the commitment to deliver the approved design for the new National Stadium and commitment for the venue to be ready in time to host the Rugby World Cup 2019. Subsequently we received a brief official notification from the Japan Sport Council (JSC) of their cancellation of the contract to design the New National Stadium in Tokyo.

ZHA remain committed to a flexible and cost-effective new National Stadium that would be ready to welcome the world to Japan for the 2019 Rugby World Cup and become a new home for sport in Japan for many generations to come. The Japanese people, Government and design teams in Japan and the UK have invested a huge amount of time, effort and resources to deliver an adaptable design that can meet the brief and budget set by the Government for a new National Stadium.

To reduce the risk of further increases in costs, the venue not being ready in time for the Tokyo 2020 Games and being of lower quality, the Prime Minister’s review should build on the investment in the detailed design knowledge already established and focus on the need for construction contractors to work in partnership with this expert team.

We have written to the Prime Minister to offer our services to support his review of the project with the current design team. ZHA has also outlined how making use of the significant investment in detailed design work already carried out offers the most cost-effective solution to create the best new National Stadium for the people of Japan for the next 50-100 years.

In the coming weeks we also plan to share, in Japan and across the international design community, the many innovative solutions achieved through the years of work and investment that has gone into the design for the National Stadium.

.

[Dave]

Just found this pic

I really like the minimalist design.

Also, the outfield fences of the baseball field on right have to be the absolute highest ever! Giancarlo Stanton couldn't even hit one out of that park even if it were on the moon.

[Dave]

Atlanta was actually the best Legacy use example to date.

Actually, that would be St. Louis '04. It is still being used (by Washington University) after 111 years!

[baron-pierreIV]

Actually, that would be St. Louis '04. It is still being used (by Washington University) after 111 years!

Actually, the old stadium at Olympia, Greece -- still drawing crowds after 2,000 years!!

[Dave]

Actually, the old stadium at Olympia, Greece -- still drawing crowds after 2,000 years!!

Yes, but that stadium was used in '04 (2014, that is) so that restarts the clock, no?

Yes, but that stadium was used in '04 (2014, that is) so that restarts the clock, no?

Oops: 2004, that is (not 2014).

[baron-pierreIV]

Yes, but that stadium was used in '04 (2014, that is) so that restarts the clock, no?

Oops: 2004, that is (not 2014).

U're making NO SENSE at all.

[LatinXTC]

U're making NO SENSE at all.

I agree why would that restart any sort of clock? It just further solidifies its original worth. And "restarting the clock" would pretty much mean from its use before 2004 doesn't count for anything which is totally false.