Rob2012 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Erm, it's the scale of this project those dissenting want changed, not its aesthetics or desgin, so you're going to end up dissapointed whether they're successful or not Baron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Well, maybe scaling it down will also humanize the design more. It's just such a vainglorious design beyond words. It seems so antithetical to the Japanese sense of simple design. But hey, they'll be stuck with that monstrosity anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 /\/\ Agreed. About time somebody spoke out against that monstrous design of Hadid. The design for Brasilia's new athletics stadium is JUST beautiful and so unique -- something that I would've preferred to be Tokyo's new Olympic stadium. +1. Zaha's concept is typical of her usual, arrogant b/s. Her firm doesn't design context specific proposals, but rather just regurgitates that same overwrought, melted metallic and glass concepts over and over again. Her proposal for Melbourne's Flinders Street Station redevelopment looks almost identical to the Tokyo Olympic Stadium - and the repetitive nature of her designs was cited as an issue on the expert panel (it was eventually knocked back, thankfully). Aside from this - the Tokyo Olympic Stadium is an icon of 60s modernism - one of the classic Olympic Stadiums and it is a great shame to see it so dramatically altered. Something similar to what Baron has posted from Brazil, or even Calatrava's Athens treatment would have been FAR more appropriate. Zaha's proposal just smack of some Gulf State hyperdevelopment compared to the usual restraint of Japanese design. It is just all so wrong and such a shame the Japanese have been sucked into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Okay, I gotta say it... I don't mind it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Okay, I gotta say it... I don't mind it. I don't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) +1. Zaha's concept is typical of her usual, arrogant b/s. Her firm doesn't design context specific proposals, but rather just regurgitates that same overwrought, melted metallic and glass concepts over and over again. Her proposal for Melbourne's Flinders Street Station redevelopment looks almost identical to the Tokyo Olympic Stadium - and the repetitive nature of her designs was cited as an issue on the expert panel (it was eventually knocked back, thankfully). Aside from this - the Tokyo Olympic Stadium is an icon of 60s modernism - one of the classic Olympic Stadiums and it is a great shame to see it so dramatically altered. Something similar to what Baron has posted from Brazil, or even Calatrava's Athens treatment would have been FAR more appropriate. Zaha's proposal just smack of some Gulf State hyperdevelopment compared to the usual restraint of Japanese design. It is just all so wrong and such a shame the Japanese have been sucked into it. -1 I can completely understand why some people passionately dislike Hadid's work. It IS arrogant, massively so, but this Japan's National Stadium, maybe they want it to be so! Citing Calatrava, even in the context you did about redevelopment rather than rebuilding, is odd given that that firm's house-style is just as globalised and repetitive as Hadid. I think in reality you dislike the style of Hadid rather than her repetitiveness (which is fair enough), otherwise you wouldn't be bringing up Calatrava as a point of contrast. Also, when I think of Gulf State hyperdevelopments I think of cheap-build quality, style-over substance, bling-lighting. If this Tokyo stadium is anything like London's Aquatics Centre it will be a serious architectural monument - heavy, serious architecuture, not cheap Gulf pastiche flim-flam. I'm hugely envious Japan is getting a Hadid National Stadium if it's going to be anything like the style and quality of what she delivered in London. If there's an issue of scale, as these opponenents are claiming, that's something the Japanese need to resolve for themselves. But to be honest, every proposal for this site looked huge, so that suggests to me their issue is really with the planners rather than with Hadid. Edited October 14, 2013 by RobH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 -1 I can completely understand why some people passionately dislike Hadid's work. It IS arrogant, massively so, but this Japan's National Stadium, maybe they want it to be so! Citing Calatrava, even in the context you did about redevelopment rather than rebuilding, is odd given that that firm's house-style is just as globalised and repetitive as Hadid. I think in reality you dislike the style of Hadid rather than her repetitiveness (which is fair enough), otherwise you wouldn't be bringing up Calatrava as a point of contrast. Also, when I think of Gulf State hyperdevelopments I think of cheap-build quality, style-over substance, bling-lighting. If this Tokyo stadium is anything like London's Aquatics Centre it will be a serious architectural monument - heavy, serious architecuture, not cheap Gulf pastiche flim-flam. I'm hugely envious Japan is getting a Hadid National Stadium if it's going to be anything like the style and quality of what she delivered in London. If there's an issue of scale, as these opponenents are claiming, that's something the Japanese need to resolve for themselves. But to be honest, every proposal for this site looked huge, so that suggests to me their issue is really with the planners rather than with Hadid. Spot on regarding my personal taste and Calatrava vs. Hadid - but regardless of if people like Calatrava or not, Athens was a great example of a non intrusive design complimenting the original stadia - my main issue, moreso than my distain for Hadid, is that it asks for the completely removal of one of the great modernist Olympic stadiums. That is where my Athens comparison comes into it. I'd feel very differently about Hadid if there was at least an attempt to preserve the iconic 60s bowl that sits on the site, which has for the last 50 years been a Tokyo landmark. It is remarkably similar to Munich's Olympic Stadium, without the canopy. Perhaps this could have been a point of inspiration - an architectural statement roof for the 2020 Olympics that sits as a complimentaryaddition the 1964 bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I must say I like the modern look of the new stadium (and in general I prefer classic arcitecture over modern.) and it looks like it can be one of the best stadiums in the world with a moveable seating and retractable roof. But it's sad that a former Olympic Stadium will get demolished to make place for the new one. I would prefer modernizing an old stadium or rebuilding it in a bigger scale with the original design. (I think Oslo's Bislett is a good example on that, you can see some architectural features of the old stadium in the new one.) But the old National Stadium has only 48,000 seats. That's way too little for the Olympics and hard to expand. So a new stadium is a necessity. Well, I'd like it in the old stadium's style but that would be problematic. It's not easy to install a retractable roof when the other side of the stadium is higher than the other. Also, the former design might not allow the moveable seating on the lower rows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Will the new stadium be completed in time for the Rugby World Cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world atlas Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Will the new stadium be completed in time for the Rugby World Cup? Yes, they were planning to build the stadium even if Tokyo lost the 2020 bid for the 2019 Rugby World Cup. The National Stadium, completed in 1958, seats 54,000 people and features an eight-lane track -- just short of current Olympic standards for track and field and opening ceremony venues, which call for a nine-lane track and a minimum seating capacity of 60,000. Authorities are planning to demolish the current structure between July 2014 and October 2015 before building the new incarnation between October 2015 and March 2019. The Mainichi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Spot on regarding my personal taste and Calatrava vs. Hadid - but regardless of if people like Calatrava or not, Athens was a great example of a non intrusive design complimenting the original stadia - my main issue, moreso than my distain for Hadid.... A little unfair of me, but just because I read these two threads within five minutes of each other.... Looking fantastic. Will definitely visit to do a a few laps when I'm over there next year! It has a real Munich quality to it: Ssshhhh.......don't tell runningrings it's a Hadid Edited October 15, 2013 by RobH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted October 17, 2013 Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm well aware the London centre is Hadid. You can't deny that there is a huge difference between her proposal for Tokyo and the London example. If anything, it shows up Tokyo using such blockbuster starchitect has a case of been there, done that. I find the bulk of her stuff to be too overwrought, contextually inappropriate and overbearing. Admittedly there are two designs of hers I do appreciate - London Aquatic Centre and the Heydar Center in Baku (probably her best). My original point - I don't think that Hadid & Co. is a good fit for Japan 2019/Tokyo 2020. Would have loved to have seen a far more restrained, minimal design for 2020 by a Japanese architect to compliment the existing 1964 structure, than the intense, heavy and futurist design going up instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palette86 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Concerns about new Tokyo national stadium by Zaha Hadid? http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/17/national/critics-say-olympic-stadium-is-too-big/#page I had been thinking only about it's appearance design-Would this be cool one for Tokyo 2020 or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotosy Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Petition launched to protest Tokyo 2020 slalom canoe venue October 21 - A petition containing the signatures of more than 15,000 people opposing the proposed location for the Tokyo 2020 canoe slalom course in Kasai Rinkai Park has been passed on to the Tokyo Metropolitan Government. The petition was launched by Shizuka Watahiki with the aim of forcing a change to the proposed venue due, what she claims, is potential environmental harm to the Park. Watahiki claimed she does not oppose Tokyo hosting the Games, but that "a five day canoeing event for the Olympics does not justify destroying or altering a nature park that has taken 25 years to develop". Her petition has been supported by several environmental groups, including the Wild Bird Society of Japan, as well as other activists. It is an early controversy for Tokyo 2020 organisers following their victory in the race to host the Games at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) session in Buenos Aires last month. ... An artists impression of the proposed canoe slalom course in Kasai Rinkai Park for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games full article: http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/summer-olympics/2020/1016581-petition-launched-to-protest-tokyo-2020-slalom-canoe-venue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikarus360 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^ Better that these discussions happen early and not on latter stages. As for the stadium, I already thought since the beginning that it looked very unrealistic and that the design would most likely get simplified in the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Just found another Zaha Ha! did work. This one is supposed to be a museum. It doesn't look particularly original to me. It doesn't even look like her signature work...which I supposed is a good thing...to some degree. This is the supposed Maxxi Museum in Rome. Have no idea what it houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palette86 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^ Better that these discussions happen early and not on latter stages. As for the stadium, I already thought since the beginning that it looked very unrealistic and that the design would most likely get simplified in the end. I've read gotosy's article he quoted and this can be an issue for Tokyo. Too bad for the birdies. I've been to Sendagaya or Yoyogi and around the stadium is really quiet place. Oh my,such big helmet in central Tokyo,,,I feel a little bit dizzy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotosy Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Tokyo Plans Schools and Transport in Bay Area Ahead of Olympics The Tokyo Metropolitan Government is considering building schools and transportation near the athlete’s village to ensure the popularity of the Tokyo Bay area after the 2020 Olympic Games. The 44-hectare (109-acre) Olympic Village complex, to be located in Harumi in Tokyo Bay, will be financed and built by developers, and will be sold or leased after the summer games, according to the bid documents. Tokyo is in talks with the residents of the bay area and local government about building schools, shopping areas and transportation systems to keep the area viable after the games, said Masaaki Sawai, who is in charge of planning for the Olympic Village at the government. Tokyo is planning beyond the 2020 games as it seeks to avoid the fate of other host cities, including London and Vancouver, that have struggled with funding and finding ways to cut losses after the event. Developers of Tokyo’s Olympic Village, estimated to cost about 105.7 billion yen ($1.1 billion) to build, will be selected by mid-2014, according to bid documents. “We must make the area attractive enough for developers to participate so that they can easily sell or lease out the units after the games,” Sawai, director for Olympic Village, said in an interview. “We don’t have much time left.” Post OlympicsPart of the Olympic Village used for the 2012 London games which cost 1.1 billion pounds to build, sold to Delancey Estates Plc and Qatari Diar Real Estate Investment Co. for 557 million pounds ($893 million) in 2011. The City of Vancouver had to step in as manager and financier of its C$1.1 billion ($1.05 billion) athletes’ village in 2009 after New York-based lender Fortress Investment Group LLC (FIG) halted funding to the builder when costs ran C$125 million over budget. Under the plans, the Olympic Village, to be built in the middle of two main competition zones, will consist of luxury apartments surrounded by Tokyo Bay, with a view of the Rainbow Bridge that connects central Tokyo with the Odaiba area. It will comprise of 10,860 residential units spread across about two-dozen buildings, along with training gyms, dining halls, seaside restaurants and parks, the bid documents show. While the bid documents show that the athletes will stay between the second and 14 floors in each building, the developers may construct high-rise buildings ahead of the games, Sawai said. “It takes about three to four years to build a 50-story building, so there is not much time left,” said Sawai. “After the game, these units on lower floors will need to be converted to regular apartments for sale or for lease.” The Tokyo Olympic Committee will choose the developers, with design and construction work starting later next year, according to candidacy documents from the Tokyo government. The Tokyo government and Chuo ward, which is where the Olympic will be, are considering two transportation systems that connect Ginza to the Harumi area, Sawai said, declining to say when the government will reach a decision. The government is studying the feasibility of a rapid bus transit system that has its own lane and a light rail train that runs on streets. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-31/tokyo-plans-schools-and-transport-in-bay-area-ahead-of-olympics.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 ^^ Better that these discussions happen early and not on latter stages. As for the stadium, I already thought since the beginning that it looked very unrealistic and that the design would most likely get simplified in the end. Maybe it'll be similar to London. Either it will be completely redone by some other designer (like the London Stadium) or toned down a whole bunch (like the London Aquatics Center). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotosy Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Japan organizers to review venue plans for TokyoTOKYO (AP) — Japanese Olympic organizers said Tuesday they are reviewing their venue plans for the 2020 Tokyo Games because of concerns over rising costs. Tokyo Gov. Yoichi Masuzoe told a city assembly meeting that the overall plan for the venues needs to be revised. "We must respond to concerns over rising facilities costs, including rising costs for labor and construction materials," Masuzoe said. "We will review the plan as soon as possible from that point of view and revise what needs to be revised appropriately and promptly so that there will be no obstacles for the preparations for the games." Japan has already informed the International Olympic Committee about its intention to review and revise its plans, the broadcaster NHK cited Masuzoe as saying. The IOC, under new President Thomas Bach, is currently looking at ways of reducing the costs of hosting future Olympics. Several cities declined to bid or have dropped out of the race for the 2022 Winter Games because of financial concerns. Yoshiro Mori, a former prime minister who heads Tokyo's Olympic organizing committee, issued a statement saying that Masuzoe and other members of the panel agree on the need to make changes. The statement did not refer specifically to plans to replace Tokyo's National Stadium with a colossal, 80,000-seat facility, the centerpiece of the city's Olympic bid. The proposed new stadium has caused protests over its size, cost and design. The Japan Sports Council has already scaled back its original proposal to spend 300 billion yen ($3 billion) on a 75-meter-tall stadium to a still-hefty169 billion yen ($1.7 billion). It recently presented its plans for the stadium to the Olympic organizers, saying it did not envision revising the basic design concept but would take other concerns into consideration. Mori said he would convene a meeting of the Olympic Board on Thursday to discuss the way forward. He said one of his priorities is "to seek ways to further enhance the quality of the games, and ensure that we provide a sports-oriented legacy that will enrichen the health and lifestyles of the people of Tokyo and the whole of Japan." Tokyo, which hosted the 1964 Olympics, won the right to host the 2020 Games last September with a plan emphasizing the city's safety and advanced infrastructure. Of the 33 competition venues, 28 will be within 5 miles (8 kilometers) of the Olympic Village, which will be built on reclaimed land in Tokyo Bay. AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binary Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 they could always use the tokyo dome for some events like how atlanta used the georgia dome for some events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 they could always use the tokyo dome for some events like how atlanta used the georgia dome for some events I think they wanna see if they can get baseball in the games first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binary Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think they wanna see if they can get baseball in the games first. theres always meiji jingu stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotosy Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Masuzoe briefs IOC president on venue review Tokyo Gov. Yoichi Masuzoe met International Olympic Committee President Thomas Bach on Friday to explain his plan to review venues planned for the 2020 Olympics. “President Bach told us to have better contact with each international sports federation,” Masuzoe told reporters at a Tokyo hotel following the meeting with Bach, who was here to sign a sponsorship deal with Bridgestone Corp. The organizing committee for the 2020 Olympics has agreed to review the facilities planned for the event, as proposed by Masuzoe earlier. After discussing the matter and consulting other groups, committee President Yoshiro Mori said Thursday that they will stick to the basic principle of building 85 percent of all venues in an 8-km radius. The review plan was conveyed to John Coates, chair of the International Olympic Committee’s coordination panel for the games, Mori said. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/06/13/national/olympic-organizing-panel-oks-review-of-2020-facility-plans/#.U5wcuSgkTZU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Good thing they're handling it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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