DannyelBrazil Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Any thoughts besides Intoronto's opinion on how big it should be to Brazil to have 0 medals in winter sports?
Sir Rols Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Any thoughts besides Intoronto's opinion on how big it should be to Brazil to have 0 medals in winter sports? Well, Oz has been a consistent medal winner for the past three games now. I think the trick is to target a sport with a lot of cross-disciplinary overlap - for example, for Freestyle Aerials, Oz basically recruited gymnasts who were up to it to put their skills to use in a different setting. The other stategy that's worked for us is to "recruit" Canadian athletes. Works both ways well - gets us medals and pisses off the Canucks!
intoronto Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Any thoughts besides Intoronto's opinion on how big it should be to Brazil to have 0 medals in winter sports? Hey I never mentioned a 0 all that its good to see the smaller (in terms of winter sports) qualifying athletes and taking up winter sports.
oakydoky Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Any thoughts besides Intoronto's opinion on how big it should be to Brazil to have 0 medals in winter sports? I suspect not. Some of those winter sports obviously require certain natural landscapes and weather e.g. mountains for skiing with an abundance of snow. The country then has to develop a sports culture for those particular sports.If countries don't have mountains and snow etc, then they will not therefore excel at skiing for example in all likelihood unless they desire it so much they will send their athletes oversees to training camps. Perhaps sports which occur indoors, such as ice-skating and ice-hockey etc could flourish but that would really require a huge sports programme from the country to encourage people to take up those sports.In Brazil for example, what incentive would there be for someone to be an ice-hockey player when football is far more attractive and easier to learn? Perhaps if booty-shakin' on ice became an Olympic sport then Brazil could target that?
intoronto Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 I suspect not. Some of those winter sports obviously require certain natural landscapes and weather e.g. mountains for skiing with an abundance of snow. The country then has to develop a sports culture for those particular sports.If countries don't have mountains and snow etc, then they will not therefore excel at skiing for example in all likelihood unless they desire it so much they will send their athletes oversees to training camps. Perhaps sports which occur indoors, such as ice-skating and ice-hockey etc could flourish but that would really require a huge sports programme from the country to encourage people to take up those sports.In Brazil for example, what incentive would there be for someone to be an ice-hockey player when football is far more attractive and easier to learn? Perhaps if booty-shakin' on ice became an Olympic sport then Brazil could target that? Thing is Ice hockey is generally for the "rich" and I use that loosely because the equipment costs so much. That is another reason why Soccer is so popular because all you need is any sort of ball to play! Bringing back the Winter Pan American Games every four years with Argentina, Chile, USA and Canada alternating as hosts would go along way in helping countries develop these sports (with Canada/USA sending developmental teams).
baron-pierreIV Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 I think the BIGGER issue here really is these sports would only blossom where there has been a cultural link. Two very strange examples: Danny, u lived in Florida, I think. So you do know that very strange anomaly of the Tampa Bay Lightning ice hockey team surviving in tropical Florida? Well, apparently that's because the large community of transplanted, retired Canadians (and other northeasterners) living down there, support the team. Other than that factor, there's no way sun-bred Floridians would have any interest in a winter sport. #2 - Oddly enuf in the Philippines, there is a small figure skating following there. That's because the Phil used to be a U.S. colony, so it gets all those ice shows + 2ndly, ice rinks (one or two) found their way in Manila since 1970. A Filipina-American gal from New Jersey (who used to be on the U.S. junior team) will compete in the Ladies's singles under the Philippine flag in the Worlds now and leading up to Sochi. Oddly too, this Melissa gal is like the 4th or 5th in a long-line of half-Filipina-American gals who have made names for themselves in US Figure Skating. Tai Babilonia (pairs, 1980), Elizabeth Punsalan (ice dancing, the late 80s and 90s) were Fil-Am gals into figure skating. Presently, the top rated female US pairs figure skater, Amanda Evora, is also a Fil-American gal. So any affinity to any winter sports from a non-winter society would have to be a cultural thing for starters.
DannyelBrazil Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Posted November 7, 2011 I suspect not. Some of those winter sports obviously require certain natural landscapes and weather e.g. mountains for skiing with an abundance of snow. The country then has to develop a sports culture for those particular sports.If countries don't have mountains and snow etc, then they will not therefore excel at skiing for example in all likelihood unless they desire it so much they will send their athletes oversees to training camps. Perhaps sports which occur indoors, such as ice-skating and ice-hockey etc could flourish but that would really require a huge sports programme from the country to encourage people to take up those sports.In Brazil for example, what incentive would there be for someone to be an ice-hockey player when football is far more attractive and easier to learn? Perhaps if booty-shakin' on ice became an Olympic sport then Brazil could target that? That's my point... LOL, Ice booty-skakin' would become Winter Games a bit more tropical!!!
DannyelBrazil Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Posted November 7, 2011 I think the BIGGER issue here really is these sports would only blossom where there has been a cultural link. Two very strange examples: Danny, u lived in Florida, I think. So you do know that very strange anomaly of the Tampa Bay Lightning ice hockey team surviving in tropical Florida? Well, apparently that's because the large community of transplanted, retired Canadians (and other northeasterners) living down there, support the team. Other than that factor, there's no way sun-bred Floridians would have any interest in a winter sport. #2 - Oddly enuf in the Philippines, there is a small figure skating following there. That's because the Phil used to be a U.S. colony, so it gets all those ice shows + 2ndly, ice rinks (one or two) found their way in Manila since 1970. A Filipina-American gal from New Jersey (who used to be on the U.S. junior team) will compete in the Ladies's singles under the Philippine flag in the Worlds now and leading up to Sochi. Oddly too, this Melissa gal is like the 4th or 5th in a long-line of half-Filipina-American gals who have made names for themselves in US Figure Skating. Tai Babilonia (pairs, 1980), Elizabeth Punsalan (ice dancing, the late 80s and 90s) were Fil-Am gals into figure skating. Presently, the top rated female US pairs figure skater, Amanda Evora, is also a Fil-American gal. So any affinity to any winter sports from a non-winter society would have to be a cultural thing for starters. Yes, Florida have Ice-Hockey teams, in fact, Brazilians like to watch Ice Hockey since we think it's a "kind of iced soccer"... You score goals, Brazilian loves goals. Anyway. I think the your point is even better than Oakeydokey. Most of tropical countries have no link or tradition with those sports simply because they don't have snow. Few countries can have a weak link due a colony of immigrants or in the case of Australia, because it's a rich country, part of a Commonwealth of a northern Kingdon (it's a enough link to people care about other parts of Kingdom likes in sports). Despite that, as I pointed in the microblog of GBForums, it'lll be hard to make Brazilians, for example, care more about winter sports, when the Brazilian Championship of some freezing discipline is held in Ushuaia, Argentina... or in Montillo, Chile... Both more than 4,000 Km from the southern states of Brazil... Hey I never mentioned a 0 all that its good to see the smaller (in terms of winter sports) qualifying athletes and taking up winter sports. It's always good, but not major. A line was not written about them in Brazilian Media... And from times to times, "strange" countries will be joining winter sports and doing ridiculuous like bobsled team of Brazil in Vancouver... It was more dangerous than honorable what they did.
oakydoky Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 That's my point... LOL, Ice booty-skakin' would become Winter Games a bit more tropical!!! Brazil could target speed skating (long and short track) -- it's relatively easy to build ice rinks and Brazil seems to have to right kind of people suited to that sport i.e. runners, soccer players types who could convert to it. Speed skating is one sport where many medals can be won. Look at South Korea -- most of their medals come in the short track skating events. Developing an alpine mountain culture is obviously more difficult.
intoronto Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Yes, Florida have Ice-Hockey teams, in fact, Brazilians like to watch Ice Hockey since we think it's a "kind of iced soccer"... You score goals, Brazilian loves goals. Anyway. I think the your point is even better than Oakeydokey. Most of tropical countries have no link or tradition with those sports simply because they don't have snow. Few countries can have a weak link due a colony of immigrants or in the case of Australia, because it's a rich country, part of a Commonwealth of a northern Kingdon (it's a enough link to people care about other parts of Kingdom likes in sports). Despite that, as I pointed in the microblog of GBForums, it'lll be hard to make Brazilians, for example, care more about winter sports, when the Brazilian Championship of some freezing discipline is held in Ushuaia, Argentina... or in Montillo, Chile... Both more than 4,000 Km from the southern states of Brazil... It's always good, but not major. A line was not written about them in Brazilian Media... And from times to times, "strange" countries will be joining winter sports and doing ridiculuous like bobsled team of Brazil in Vancouver... It was more dangerous than honorable what they did. Brazil actually didn't qualify a sled for the Vancouver games, but anything is possible Jamaica was in medal range when they crashed on the last turn.
Gangwon Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 Brazil could target speed skating (long and short track) -- it's relatively easy to build ice rinks and Brazil seems to have to right kind of people suited to that sport i.e. runners, soccer players types who could convert to it. Speed skating is one sport where many medals can be won. Look at South Korea -- most of their medals come in the short track skating events. Developing an alpine mountain culture is obviously more difficult. If Korea's national identity was defined in part by the sun/beach/heat, they never would've become so involved in speed skating. I see it in Canada every time the Summer Olympics or World Cup rolls around. Some people are actually proud to suck at these summer sports because they have a silly belief that being good at soccer takes away from their hockey identity. I would imagine this type of thinking would be even more pronounced when taking a summer nation and asking it to take up a winter sport.
DannyelBrazil Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Posted November 8, 2011 Brazil actually didn't qualify a sled for the Vancouver games, but anything is possible Jamaica was in medal range when they crashed on the last turn. But they went to Vancouver, and got no qualification after a serious acident. Indeed one of the Brazilian athletes needed to use the helmet of Germany. And in January, again, Brazilians got in trouble with bobsleds... Forget it Intoronto. Brazilians in Winter Games are tourists. I will always cheer for them and support them, but the reality is: Winter sports are not made to those from countries without Snow. Period.
DannyelBrazil Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Posted November 8, 2011 Sorry, you're right, Brazil didn't get any qualification for Vancouver in Bobsled, that accident was in 2006 in Torino... Even worst... In fact, it's nice to send 5, 6 athletes to Winter Games to say "hey, Brazil is here". Nothing further.
intoronto Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 Sorry, you're right, Brazil didn't get any qualification for Vancouver in Bobsled, that accident was in 2006 in Torino... Even worst... In fact, it's nice to send 5, 6 athletes to Winter Games to say "hey, Brazil is here". Nothing further. I'd rather have 100 countries competing then 25. Its the spirit of the world coming together to compete as one. The troubles of our planet are put aside so this sporting spectacle can be contested. Brazil's snowboarder could have been a medal contender, but had bad luck.
intoronto Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 Too add to theme: Some encouraging hockey from Mexico: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534729
baron-pierreIV Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 I'd rather have 100 countries competing then 25. Aside from the obvious reasons of having snow and ice, you forget that indulging in winter sports is MORE expensive than picking up a summer sport (beach volleyball, sprinting, boxing, etc.) which is why the northern hemisphere economies will always have the luxury of excelling in BOTH summer and winter sports.
intoronto Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 Aside from the obvious reasons of having snow and ice, you forget that indulging in winter sports is MORE expensive than picking up a summer sport (beach volleyball, sprinting, boxing, etc.) which is why the northern hemisphere economies will always have the luxury of excelling in BOTH summer and winter sports. And the obivous climate advantage
Athan Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 Some of those winter sports obviously require certain natural landscapes and weather e.g. mountains for skiing with an abundance of snow. And even with mountains, some snow and several good ski resorts, there are still some countries that have no chance at all at the Winter Games. Fortunately, this is starting to change. I think I can expect good Spanish performances in snowboard and figure skating in Sochi. Although medals are difficult, it's not impossible.
DannyelBrazil Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Posted November 8, 2011 I'd rather have 100 countries competing then 25. Its the spirit of the world coming together to compete as one. The troubles of our planet are put aside so this sporting spectacle can be contested. Brazil's snowboarder could have been a medal contender, but had bad luck. Yes, but you can never call the Winter Games a truly international event. Can be about the Opening Ceremony and all olympism-related, but at the end, it's a real party (celebrations over victories) for few... Imagine some Beach Olympic Games with Beach Soccer, Footvolley, Surfing, Kitesurfing, Paragliding and Hang gliding with landing in sand... Winter powers like Norway, Latvia, Sweden would have no chances against Beach Olympic Powers like Brazil, South Africa, Australia... Maybe people from the edges of the planet would understand what we from tropical countries feel about the "exclusive party" of Winter Games...
DannyelBrazil Posted November 8, 2011 Author Report Posted November 8, 2011 Brazil's snowboarder could have been a medal contender, but had bad luck. Really proud of Isabel Clark, our best athlete ever in Winter Games with an overall 9th position in Boardcross. Still, she doesn't live in Brazil and speak Portuguese with some foreign accent...
intoronto Posted November 8, 2011 Report Posted November 8, 2011 Yes, but you can never call the Winter Games a truly international event. Can be about the Opening Ceremony and all olympism-related, but at the end, it's a real party (celebrations over victories) for few... Imagine some Beach Olympic Games with Beach Soccer, Footvolley, Surfing, Kitesurfing, Paragliding and Hang gliding with landing in sand... Winter powers like Norway, Latvia, Sweden would have no chances against Beach Olympic Powers like Brazil, South Africa, Australia... Maybe people from the edges of the planet would understand what we from tropical countries feel about the "exclusive party" of Winter Games... What do you mean? Norway has some good beach volleyball teams. I am pretty sure out of those three at least one would win a medal at a "beach Olympics' Really proud of Isabel Clark, our best athlete ever in Winter Games with an overall 9th position in Boardcross. Still, she doesn't live in Brazil and speak Portuguese with some foreign accent... Does she really? 2010 she has very bad luck because of a bad course.
DannyelBrazil Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Posted November 9, 2011 What do you mean? Norway has some good beach volleyball teams. I am pretty sure out of those three at least one would win a medal at a "beach Olympics' Also in handgliding and some radical sports, but still, their athletes would feel a like a fish outside water as Brazilians or Nigerians feel in Winter Games... Which beach cultural tradition does Norway, Sweden or Lithuania have? None. BTW, Beach Olympic Games would be very cool (cool is not a good word) better: would be very hot! ___ Isabel did a great performance in Torino 2006, our biggest winter athlete ever. Go the Brazilian streets, and say her name... Nobody will know her.
intoronto Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 Also in handgliding and some radical sports, but still, their athletes would feel a like a fish outside water as Brazilians or Nigerians feel in Winter Games... Which beach cultural tradition does Norway, Sweden or Lithuania have? None. BTW, Beach Olympic Games would be very cool (cool is not a good word) better: would be very hot! ___ Isabel did a great performance in Torino 2006, our biggest winter athlete ever. Go the Brazilian streets, and say her name... Nobody will know her. After the Youth Olympics the next logical step for the Olympics is the Beach Olympics -.-
DannyelBrazil Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Posted November 9, 2011 After the Youth Olympics the next logical step for the Olympics is the Beach Olympics -.- I think the next logical step for Olympics is not create new games... Youth version is already too much... Not surprised somebody very proud of medals in winter games be against a Beach-version of Olympic Games... Specially from a country with not much tradition in beach sports... How can be? :lol::lol:
intoronto Posted November 9, 2011 Report Posted November 9, 2011 I think the next logical step for Olympics is not create new games... Youth version is already too much... Not surprised somebody very proud of medals in winter games be against a Beach-version of Olympic Games... Specially from a country with not much tradition in beach sports... How can be? :lol::lol: I wouldn't mind a Beach Games, its just that like you said too much events on the Olympics Program.
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