Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I have to say I'm surprised by the intensity of some posters' disregard for Oslo. I really don't see it as "been there, done that." What I see is that the IOC has taken two big gambles with the Wint

This statement is incredibly angry and off-putting. The IOC ought to say "mea culpa." Instead they're lashing out at the Norwegians. This isn't going to fix anything and it shows just how out of tou

So 1 of them says that France and Italy may not bid. And the other feels compelled to respond by saying pretty much the same thing, just worded a little differently...

And what happens if they stay ahead at the last minute? Are you ready for a potentially big "we told you so" if that's the case?

I don't care. I just think, at this point, Krakow's going to take it. I reserve the right to change my mind. R u going to hold me to it?? :rolleyes:

Basically, a Norwegian bid doesn't excite me. There's nothing new there. I took a Norwegian Cruise line last year. Other than one or 2 officers, there wasn't anything very "Norwegian" about it -- not that that was primary criterion for picking that particular cruise.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care. I just think, at this point, Krakow's going to take it. I reserve the right to change my mind. R u going to hold me to it?? :rolleyes:

Not at all. You have the right to change your mind if you'd like. Would be interesting to see you change your tune after these arguments you've made though. Again, I'm just curious where this lack of objectivity comes from. We know you too well, baron. You wouldn't be this outspoken against Norway if there wasn't something up here. Like I said, if you're that certain Krakow has the goods to take it, what difference does Norway's case for the Olympics make in the grand scheme of things

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not at all. You have the right to change your mind if you'd like. Would be interesting to see you change your tune after these arguments you've made though. Again, I'm just curious where this lack of objectivity comes from. We know you too well, baron. You wouldn't be this outspoken against Norway if there wasn't something up here. Like I said, if you're that certain Krakow has the goods to take it, what difference does Norway's case for the Olympics make in the grand scheme of things

No; I know Oslo has probably the strongest hand; but I just don't see the point in going there for the 3rd time. Time to try a new location to keep the brand and the event fresh.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No; I know Oslo has probably the strongest hand; but I just don't see the point in going there for the 3rd time. Time to try a new location to keep the brand and the event fresh.

Sochi and PyeongChang were new destinations. 2022 is time for a traditional Host. Maybe 2026 is a time for 'New Horizons'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sochi and PyeongChang were new destinations. 2022 is time for a traditional Host. Maybe 2026 is a time for 'New Horizons'.

The IOC can deal with 2026 when the bidding and voting for 2026 comes up. Until then, all that matters is the 2022 race. Can't really project the 2026 bid/vote until after that anyway

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sochi and PyeongChang were new destinations. 2022 is time for a traditional Host. Maybe 2026 is a time for 'New Horizons'.

Where does it say that in the Olympic Charter? :blink: That tradition is sort-of observed for the Summers. WIth Winter,it's anything goes --just like the IOC allows free rein for the Winter medals whereas the Summer medals must keep the obverse design with the goddess Nike. That alone I think reflects IOC thinking. Your view is irrelevant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where does it say that in the Olympic Charter? :blink: That tradition is sort-of observed for the Summers. WIth Winter,it's anything goes --just like the IOC allows free rein for the Winter medals whereas the Summer medals must keep the obverse design with the goddess Nike. That alone I think reflects IOC thinking. Your view is irrelevant.

Bit of a bold statement that my view is irrelevant. Ok, I worded it wrong. I should of said, 2026 SHOULD be the time for 'New Horizons'.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr. Bernham, let's keep these discussions at a more realistic level, shall we. A Summer Olympics is even less achievable for a city like Krakow. Mr. Rogge (former IOC president) mentioned that a city's metro area must be at least (meaning the bare minimum) 2.5 million to even be looked at for a Summer Olympics. And Krakow falls below that at 1.7 million. And the budget for one of those is around the $15 Billion mark nowadays.

Like Stefan said, if Poland were to even consider a summer bid, their most logical choice would be Warsaw. Krakow is actually Poland's most logical choice for a winter bid, but as usual, this is a competition, which usually involves other countries logical choices.

Sorry, I do not know too much about Poland.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Baron, have you ever taken a Myers-Briggs test? (There's a free one online here: http://www.onlinepersonalitytests.org/mbti) If so may I ask what your type is?

I think it would be disastrous for the IOC if Oslo pulls out, but I don't think it needs Oslo to actually win the bid. If the technical aspects of Poland's bid are solid then I think Krakow would be a good choice, and China will find a way to make things work if they win. But if the Norwegians shut the door on them then I think other people around the world may actually start to take pride in saying no to the games. Tons of people, right across the political spectrum, have been questioning the massive cost and human rights issues that have arisen in the past couple of decades.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Where does it say that in the Olympic Charter? :blink: That tradition is sort-of observed for the Summers. WIth Winter,it's anything goes -

Where does it say on the Charter otherwise? The Charter states a lot of things that the IOC doesn't necessarily adhere to, unless it's convenient for them to do so. I don't necessarily see Poland as such an impact. It's not like going to South America or like it would going to Africa, where the true matter of "keeping the brand & the event fresh" would mean so much more. So that angle doesn't always work. Just ask Erdogan & Istanbul 2020.

And I don't agree that the winters are "anything goes" anylonger. That may have been the case in the past, but since topography is one of the most important elements of the winter games, & with the big growth that they have endured just in the last 20 years alone, it's not that trivial anymore to just give your winter vote to whomever simply bcuz you can. And even then, I'm sure the members that truly care about where the winter games go are being more vocal as to where they should go from now on, at least for the next cycle. Giving the 2022 Winter Olympics to a traditional winter sport loving nation, isn't going to demise the IOC. Especially when 2014 & 2018 are already in new locations anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Baron, have you ever taken a Myers-Briggs test? (There's a free one online here: http://www.onlinepersonalitytests.org/mbti) If so may I ask what your type is?

I think it would be disastrous for the IOC if Oslo pulls out, but I don't think it needs Oslo to actually win the bid. If the technical aspects of Poland's bid are solid then I think Krakow would be a good choice, and China will find a way to make things work if they win. But if the Norwegians shut the door on them then I think other people around the world may actually start to take pride in saying no to the games. Tons of people, right across the political spectrum, have been questioning the massive cost and human rights issues that have arisen in the past couple of decades.

You have contradicted yourself. You say it would be disastrous if Oslo pulls out, but in another breath, you say the IOC doesn't need Oslo to win. Make your mind up. China is a no no. Human Rights are so bad. The pollution is terrible, and please don't say that the Olympics in 2022 would work, because 2008 didn't help. Political views of China are mad. I could go on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Holding the experience on a Norwegian cruise against Oslo totally makes sense. Or maybe not.

Since Erna PM of Norway is currently in Sochi, this seems to me already some kind of indication what the government will do, and if the Norwegians are smart, they know that they have some leverage on the IOC in the current situation of others running away and cost explosions.

Kraków one day will be fine, but as long as Oslo remains on the ballot, I'm still waiting for a convincing argument why it won't win.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You have contradicted yourself. You say it would be disastrous if Oslo pulls out, but in another breath, you say the IOC doesn't need Oslo to win. Make your mind up. China is a no no. Human Rights are so bad. The pollution is terrible, and please don't say that the Olympics in 2022 would work, because 2008 didn't help. Political views of China are mad. I could go on.

Please don't go on.

Nacre doesn't contradict himself. I understand where he's coming from. The IOC already lost 1 candidate from a very traditional Winter sports nation (and 1 that has never hosted a Winter games at that) who dropped out because of financial issues. Now Oslo is wavering in the same way. For them to drop out would be sending a bad signal that not 1, but 2 nations with a long proud history in Winter sports don't have the resources to put together a bid and we'd be left with a handful of less appealing options, mostly from nations that don't have any business winning but would be able to offer up promises of lots of cash flow and glitzy new venues, but the potential that's all going to go for naught.

That all said, I have no problem with Krakow beating Oslo. That's a perfectly reasonable and acceptable result because at least it means that Oslo wasn't scared away by the specter of spending billions of dollars. That's the issue at hand here. Oslo doesn't need to win, they just seem like the city that is going to be the pick for 2022 given the circumstances. Doesn't mean Krakow can't beat them though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kraków one day will be fine, but as long as Oslo remains on the ballot, I'm still waiting for a convincing argument why it won't win.

Why does Norway need MORE 'winter legacy'? They are practically cleaning up the medals at Sochi. So 2022 should all be ANOTHER ego trip for a nation of 5 million? :blink: U must've failed at Math and Equality studies, Stefan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have contradicted yourself. You say it would be disastrous if Oslo pulls out, but in another breath, you say the IOC doesn't need Oslo to win. Make your mind up. China is a no no. Human Rights are so bad. The pollution is terrible, and please don't say that the Olympics in 2022 would work, because 2008 didn't help. Political views of China are mad. I could go on.

Bidding and winning the bid are two different things. If Oslo publicly withdraws its bid then that will add further fuel to the fire of criticism people have towards the games. If Oslo loses in a fair fight that's not the end of the world for the IOC because they will still be left with a good winning bid. Being forced to choose between Poland and China after Norway, Germany and Sweden have all said no to the IOC would be a disaster.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does Norway need MORE 'winter legacy'? They are practically cleaning up the medals at Sochi. So 2022 should all be ANOTHER ego trip for a nation of 5 million? :blink: U must've failed at Math and Equality studies, Stefan.

So now that problem with Norway is that they're winning too many medals? Can't give an Olympics to a country that is so successful? Maybe Poland should stop winning medals just to be safe ;)

If you're going to talk about the Olympics being an ego trip, then what is in it for Poland? Once again, you keep trying to make this case against Oslo as if that alone makes Krakow look better. You can make a case for Poland without making this all about coming up with reasons why Norway won't win. You can certainly do it without the insulting the intelligence of those of us who disagree with you (well, at least I'd like to think you can)

No country *needs* a Winter legacy. It's a nice thing to have, but if you're going to talk about the Olympics being an ego trip for the host country, then what are they really getting out of it? Particularly when you're talking about an expenditure of $50 billion with Russia. Obviously no other country is gonna do that

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does Norway need MORE 'winter legacy'? They are practically cleaning up the medals at Sochi. So 2022 should all be ANOTHER ego trip for a nation of 5 million? :blink: U must've failed at Math and Equality studies, Stefan.

1) When did you last look at the medals table? Norway is actually doing worse than expected.

2) Any Olympics is an ego trip, the current one that of a single person happening to be President of Russia.

3) I'll just ignore the last part.

Link to post
Share on other sites

#1- now that problem with Norway is that they're winning too many medals? Can't give an Olympics to a country that is so successful? Maybe Poland should stop winning medals just to be safe ;)

#2 - You can make a case for Poland without making this all about coming up with reasons why Norway won't win. You can certainly do it without the insulting the intelligence of those of us who disagree with you (well, at least I'd like to think you can)

Your first comment (#1) doesn't make sense at all. So, I'll move on...

#2 - Or maybe I'm just enunciating what others (esp our new Poles here) are too courteous or intimidated to say here. ANd besides, hell, this are about the Olympics, compeittion -- so all's fair in love and war. Why be so pussy-wussy shy about it??

#3 - (Wont' go into the quote box). No country *needs* a Winter legacy. It's a nice thing to have, but if you're going to talk about the Olympics being an ego trip for the host country, then what are they really getting out of it? Particularly when you're talking about an expenditure of $50 billion with Russia. Obviously no other country is gonna do that."

No country "needs" a Winter legacy? Oh really? Tell that to the IOC numbers-crunchers. Tell them to drop it from their lingo and criteria.

"What are they really getting out of it"? Well, now you have the answer why, according to your terms, I have to "insult" people -- becuz you're framing arguments in terms I don't believe for one minute -- and I will articulate them. Denial ain't a rivah in Egypt. That's why.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites

Look, I can kind of see where Baron is coming from, that the Olympics is a worldwide event, and should go to new places, but NOT all the time. I say it again, 2014 and 2018 has gone to new destinations, with Sochi and PyeongChang, so it wouldn't hurt for a 'Traditional Winter Powerhouse' to host the 2022, and that's Oslo. The thing is Baron, I don't think some here are debating with you for supporting Krakow 2022, they are arguing that the way you are trying to boost Krakow, is by badmouthing Oslo, instead of speaking highly of Krakow. If this was part of the Bid, then Krakow would be in serious trouble, because the IOC doesn't like Bid teams badmouthing other Candidates.

Link to post
Share on other sites

#2 - Or maybe I'm just enunciating what others (esp our new Poles here) are too courteous or intimidated to say here. ANd besides, hell, this are about the Olympics, compeittion -- so all's fair in love and war. Why be so pussy-wussy shy about it??

pussy-wussy shy? Oy.

Yes, I say this is a competition all the time, so I know the stakes of that. And I get our new Polish friends being vociferously supportive of the Krakow bid. But I've still yet to figure out why you are that vocal about them because the way you're talking about Krakow and Poland sounds an awful lot like you talking about Reno where you'll point out every positive of the bid and do your best to downplay any negative. Meanwhile when anyone says something supportive of the competition, you feel the need to jump in as if we have no idea what we're talking about because we don't agree with you. Again, if you're that convinced Krakow is the winner, that's fine. But the actual competition does not take place here, so I don't see the need to pit the Krakow supporters against the Oslo supporters and play that game out in here unless you're doing it for your own personal amusement, which I'm almost starting to think you are.

No country "needs" a Winter legacy? Oh really? Tell that to the IOC numbers-crunchers. Tell them to drop it from their lingo and criteria.

"What are they really getting out of it"? Well, now you have the answer why, according to your terms, I have to "insult" people -- becuz you're framing arguments in terms I don't believe for one minute -- and I will articulate them. Denial ain't a rivah in Egypt. That's why.

Yes baron, no country NEEDS a Winter Legacy. If they are capable of offering up such a plan that entices the IOC, that's one thing. But Poland, the country and its people, will be able to move on if they're not awarded a Winter Olympics. That said, a case can be made (and a pretty good one) that Krakow hosting the Winter Olympics does more for the Olympic movement than holding the Olympics in Oslo does. If you want to articulate those arguments, go ahead. But you have shown a pretty clear lack of objectivity on this one, so you making those arguments starts to ring a little hollow. Everyone is entitled to an opinion here. You. Me. Even the little kids.. sometimes. And that's what they are: opinions. You don't know better than the rest of us. Likewise, we may not know better than you. It would be nice though if we could all be equals in this rather than you needing to berate anyone who thinks that an Olympics in Oslo is an acceptable outcome.

Look, I can kind of see where Baron is coming from, that the Olympics is a worldwide event, and should go to new places, but NOT all the time. I say it again, 2014 and 2018 has gone to new destinations, with Sochi and PyeongChang, so it wouldn't hurt for a 'Traditional Winter Powerhouse' to host the 2022, and that's Oslo. The thing is Baron, I don't think some here are debating with you for supporting Krakow 2022, they are arguing that the way you are trying to boost Krakow, is by badmouthing Oslo, instead of speaking highly of Krakow. If this was part of the Bid, then Krakow would be in serious trouble, because the IOC doesn't like Bid teams badmouthing other Candidates.

Bravo Tony.. that's 1 of the best insights you've had here!

baron, I don't say this often, but listen to Tony. If Krakow's bid is truly good enough for the IOC to select it, they'll win it on their own merits, not by pointing out the flaws in the competition.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank You Quaker. Credit where it is due. Hence, why I am calming down on posting. But yes, if Baron was part of the Krakow Bid Team with his attitude towards his opponents, then Krakow would be disqualified or haven a word with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice mature response Baron. Someone says something he disagrees with, or he is proven wrong, and he throws a strop. I'm not a fake by the way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...