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Oslo 2022


kernowboy
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Right, cuz far-right extremism is much worse than Muslim extremism which threaten to kidnap athletes & blow up Sochi in the process. Yet that's where we're gonna have the 2014 Games. Do you even listen to yourself? I think the only "extremist" here is your "pragmatism".

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As if there was ever 100% security anywhere in the world that could stop madmen terrorists from doing such things. Your theory about him not being a lone wolf - care to back this up with facts?

As for surge of far right, you conveniently seem to ignore my previous post citing your attitude towards China and US as future hosts. Both are struggling with such issues too. Poland isn't paradise either, not to mention Kazakhstan.

So get down from you moral high ground and get rid of you arrogant tone you've displayed since day one. Your arguments are not unbiased or superior to anyone else's.

Again, bringing Breivik into this is disgusting.

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Gentlemen...I hope you're aware there are 2 of you attacking a woman lol

Right, cuz far-right extremism is much worse than Muslim extremism which threaten to kidnap athletes & blow up Sochi in the process. Yet that's where we're gonna have the 2014 Games. Do you even listen to yourself? I think the only "extremist" here is your "pragmatism".

Of course muslim extremism is just as bad. Not the point here at all.


As for surge of far right, you conveniently seem to ignore my previous post citing your attitude towards China and US as future hosts. Both are struggling with such issues too. Poland isn't paradise either, not to mention Kazakhstan.



Again, bringing Breivik into this is disgusting.

Stef...Its not about ignoring, it's that your posts are so besides the point, it is becoming hard to answer you. Most of the time you're unable to discuss something peacefully (like now, you sound like you're on acid), you do not explain your points or expose your ideas, but just say how that person's posts are "mindless", "hilarious" , "naive", or "scandalous". That doesn't make people feel like answering, you know...I mean, I could do that too but it's not even interesting :)

Now...What do you want me to tell you. Oslo is the topic here and you're talking about China and the US...Yes I said China's dynamic and I maintain it, but I don't see the relation. And yes, I'm a friend of the United States, like this country and its people but I dont see where the problem is here either.


So get down from you moral high ground and get rid of you arrogant tone you've displayed since day one. Your arguments are not unbiased or superior to anyone else's.

:lol:

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Saying China's dynamic isn't a way to endorse it as a candidate. Human rights is a totally different question, I could tell you what I think about it Stefan, and whether I do support a Chinese bid but I thought this was the Oslo thread ? I mean, really...

We're talking about the specific situation of Norway here; and the US doesn't have a government that includes far-right politicians and hasn't known a surge of extremism.

If you do not agree with my stands - and you're allowed not to - just say why you do not think it's true or disagree, rather than insulting me. That's how a forum works. I'm surprised I have to tell you that.

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Saying China's dynamic isn't a way to endorse it as a candidate. Human rights is a totally different question, I could tell you what I think about it Stefan, and whether I do support a Chinese bid but I thought this was the Oslo thread ? I mean, really...

We're talking about the specific situation of Norway here; and the US doesn't have a government that includes far-right politicians and hasn't known a surge of extremism.

If you do not agree with my stands - and you're allowed not to - just say why you do not think it's true or disagree, rather than insulting me. That's how a forum works. I'm surprised I have to tell you that.

Heartfelt thanks for telling me.

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I admit that I can be hyperbolic and distort other's views at times and to the degree I have done that I apologize.

I do not agree with the dichotomy you present in terms of factors driving the decision of a host city. You say that one factor is an 'egalitarian drive' - I generally agree with you on this, if a bit more cynically. The other you describe as the IOC's concern with keeping the games fresh and engaging. I agree that this, to, is a factor in the decision. However, these aren't the only two factors and the degree to which they, and others, influence the ultimate decisions of IOC members varies across time and individuals.

The determination of host city is made through a series of votes by a very unique group of individuals with an array of interests. Some of them will be strongly principled, using their interpretation of true 'mission' of the Games as the main determinant of how they cast votes. However, even among the most principled IOC voters there will be differences of opinion as to what the Games are really for as well as which candidate best meets current needs. The remaining voters will consider these factors, but they represent many interests and have many - these are individuals who have reasons to prefer City X over City Y and City Y to City Z and though particular motivators may be unique to the individual IOC voter there are patterns when it comes to voting for cities and their countries. Thus, several rounds of voting that involve one major city dropping out means that the votes of the looser are likely to go to the remaining contenders in a manner that is not random and favors one (or more) significantly compared to another.

I need to look more into the exact make-up of the IOC at present, but my understanding is that it - like many international institutions - is increasingly seeing members admitted that come from the developing world, which have interests and assets in regions not tied to Europe and the US in ways that wouldn't have existed a decade ago. Almaty is a powerhouse for one of the major up-and-comers and many interests in China, and those of Beijing, often line up with those of Kazakhstan. Norway is more disconnected from the international economy due to refusal to join the EU fully and due to structural changes while Poland is embedded within the EU which is seen increasingly by non-Europeans as an institution that has undermined global economic growth and ignored the needs of former colonies.

Tokyo, Beijing, Rio, Pyeongchang, Sochi... you asked if I noticed a pattern, but do you? Cities that are not distinctly Western, 3 from countries not considered developed and the others from states that developed through economic models that defied US neoliberalism. For 2020, Madrid was favored to take out Tokyo nut after the US went the votes skewed to Asia. Brazil took South America's long-standing desire to receive the games, which will only push cities like Santiago and Buenos Aires to push serious bids and lobby for more inclusive choices in host cities. South Africa is widely seen as 'will be as soon as feasible' and more cities from parts of the world ignored two decades ago are serious and well-designed. Doha has made compelling bids. Almaty's current bid is clearly realistic. And there are many other cities that can host the summer games, if not winter, in the developing world. Rio will create hesitation if not successful, but China was impressive. Singapore, Kualu Lumpur, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Sao Paulo, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Istanbul, Durban, Montevideo... all could conceivably be serious contenders now. Within a decade or two we'll see Bangkok, Jakarta, Ho Chi Minh, Mumbai, Manaus, Mexico City, Marrakech, Nairobi as real contenders. Those who see future prospects for cities from regions that wouldn't have been considered a decade are going to have an interest in seeing this precedent for 'new cities, new countries, new olympic potentials' continue.

Politician, your posts are too long to be readable.

You just misrepresented me AGAIN.

I never said those were the only two considerations for choosing a host. If you had read these boards for any length of time you would know that. I said those were the two driving forces behind THE APPEAL OF NEW FRONTIERS.

I'm not going to debate with you. You twist everything I say and drone on way to long. Have fun pontificating.

Out.

I like it! Very innovative without being harsh or aesthetically unappealing.

Amen! Playful. Exciting. Fresh. Most original logo in ages.

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Scandinavian design is minimalist, clean. Rather looking for brilliant idea not beeing 'realistic'. For example I expect Oslo logo to not have any gradients, curves, and graphical representation of city or mountaints etc.

I almost guessed. Shapely but there is a little lack of symbolism imho. Or should I know something I dont know yet.

Also I would like to see monochromatic versions.

---

Still, Its fresh eye candy ;-)

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Gentlemen...I hope you're aware there are 2 of you attacking a woman lol

Of course muslim extremism is just as bad. Not the point here at all.

Yes it is. Your citing a "security concern" with Oslo due to right-wing extremism. Yet we're about to have a winter games about to start in one of the most volatile places on the planet. Which I also wouldn't describe as "just as bad" in comparison. "New dimension" Sochi 2014 has embarked the most aggressive security program ever for an Olympic Games, & there's a very good reason for that.

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If you do not agree with my stands - and you're allowed not to - just say why you do not think it's true or disagree, rather than insulting me. That's how a forum works. I'm surprised I have to tell you that.

Oh puhleeZe!! Stop being a hypocritical drama queen, wil'ya, miss "injurious adjectives". Stefan didn't "insult" you. He merely outlined your condescending characteristics (like a certain other you're in love with here. Or at least you were) ever since you made your first post here. Obviously your grasping at straws argument just now is what compelled him to do so.

Where did I end up, Insult-fest 2014?

Anyway, great logo. Very symmetrical.

I don't see anyone here insulting anyone. Other than the accuser of such a notion is merely hyperboling bcuz she's grasping at straws now & being called out in it. Seems typical. She can dish it out but can't take it. Besides, again, you live for this sorta sh!t! :-P

And yes, I agree. That is a great logo. Too bad is only gonna be their bid logo, since it will eventually change if they win the 2022 Games.

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The point really should be that the Olympics are a potential target no matter where they're held, even with Krakow, which is her horse in this race. Yet she only likes to cite Oslo with such "concerns". The thing is, it's not like any of the other 2022 applicants are beckons of a wonderful, non-threatening society. Far from it. Just look at the Ukraine. Which is right next to Poland btw.

*beacons

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The point really should be that the Olympics are a potential target no matter where they're held, even with Krakow, which is her horse in this race. Yet she only likes to cite Oslo with such "concerns". The thing is, it's not like any of the other 2022 applicants are beckons of a wonderful, non-threatening society. Far from it. Just look at the Ukraine. Which is right next to Poland btw.

*beacons

Terrorism is certainly always a concern with an event that is as high-profile and internationally-oriented as the Olympics. That said, very few attacks have ever succeeded (Munich, Atlanta are the biggies as far as memory serves me). Sochi does have a much higher probability of such an attack and the Russian state is acting accordingly - Sochi itself was a bad choice of location for this reason (as well as the fact that it is one of the only cities in Russia with a Mediterranean climate...).

However, I don't see any 2022 applicants as facing anything near the same level of threat as Sochi. Sochi is about 200/250 miles from two Russian 'provinces' that have had strong secessionist movements since the USSR collapsed, which are predominantly Muslim in a predominantly Orthodox Christian state and which the current President - turned PM - turned President again Putin owes his popularity ant power to - it was Putin's use of the Russian military to beat Chechnya and Dagestan into submission that made him so beloved by most Russians - and which made Russia itself one of the biggest targets for Muslim terrorists on Earth. Lviv aside, none of the applicants for 2022 face any significant security threats. Krakow may be 'close' to Russia, but it is in the EU and crime rates are very low. Oslo is one of the safest cities on Earth. Almaty, despite being part of the former Soviet Union, is like Krakow in terms of crime - it exists at very low levels with most being tied to corruption rather than violence and terrorism. Beijing has already shown itself a more-than-capable host and, anyways, isn't viable this round like Oslo, Krakow and Almaty.

Security concerns won't decide the 2022 bid; there isn't enough difference in terms of overall safety issues between the serious contenders for it to be of significance.

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