Athensfan Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 WOW! This is soooooo RICH coming from you! Perhaps Baron is playing the where is your "evidence" game! The stop preaching your opinions as "fact". Never mind voicing "our suspicions"! A forum?! LMFAO! What did you think that this place was in the first place. :-P Did you miss the evidence cited in the post? There is evidence that the IOC does not want bi-national Games, three consecutive Games in Asia, or Games in the politically embattled Ukraine. There is evidence they are lobbying Norway. Do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm not disagreeing with any of that, AF. But NONE of that is still any "evidence" that Oslo will win. And that's the point. Just following your philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm not disagreeing with any of that, AF. But NONE of that is still any "evidence" that Oslo will win. And that's the point. Just following your philosophy. That isn't my philosophy. It's not complicated: you can't make a reliable prognostication with NO EVIDENCE. You CAN make a prediction with SOME EVIDENCE. The more evidence you have to support your view, the more credence your prognostication deserves. It's not tricky. There is a good amount of evidence that the IOC will see Oslo as their best option for the host of the 2022 Winter Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 This is what totally cracks me up about you. You can argue with an entire degree of a gray area, yet from others you expect it to be either black or white. I feel confident to say that most of the prominent members on this forum have at least "some evidence" to support their views whatever the subject. But if you happen to disagree, you want "ABSOLUTE evidence" from them in order for the disagreement to continue. It doesn't work that way. And it is "tricky" when double standards are contantly being applied whenever you wanna disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 This is what totally cracks me up about you. You can argue with an entire degree of a gray area, yet from others you expect it to be either black or white. I feel confident to say that most of the prominent members on this forum have at least "some evidence" to support their views whatever the subject. But if you happen to disagree, you want "ABSOLUTE evidence" from them in order for the disagreement to continue. It doesn't work that way. And it is "tricky" when double standards are contantly being applied whenever you wanna disagree. No, FYI. That's your twisted version of reality. I refuse to accept the words you are trying to put in my mouth. Before I agree that NYC is not interested in an Olympic bid, I would like to hear a quote from some respected city official or someone in the USOC saying as much. So shoot me. Until the last few days we didn't have that. We had NOTHING. Nothing is not evidence. There is plenty of evidence that would suggest Oslo is likely to be the IOC's darling for 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Not true whatsoever, AF. There was PLENTY to go by to suggest that New York (& Chicago) more than likely wouldn't present a bid, at least for 2024. So to say that there was "nothing" to go by, is "your twisted version of reality". Like you said earlier in another thread, you can go back & read the past few years of posting history. And in the end, that turned out to be the case from both cities, where their mayors have both come out & said "not interested for 2024". But whatever, tell yourself what you must. But I'm moving on from this merry-go-round. Yeah, the IOC may be courting the Norwegians, but that's still not evidence that Oslo will be their 'darling', since everything is still contingent on them not bowing out anyway. They're more concerned right now about not having yet another city bailing out on them in this 2022 bidding process. Oslo appears to be a favorite right now, & I'd agree if they stay in, they'll be a strong competitor. But by no means is it evidence that they'll win. Even Bach has acknowledged as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think that Oslo Norway will be pulling out the government of Norway is an fiscally conservative populist government and the support for it that 26% low it does not like like they will go for it, The IOC may as well have 3 safe Asian countries in a row South Korea, Japan and China or Kazakhstan, The European Union is unstable now and the Ukraine is in a civil war now, It will be political suicide for Norway to go for the Olympics Games now they got the 2016 Youth Winter Games that should be enough for now it is too soon and there neededs to be a new generation of leadership for Norway to go for the big event now. Oslo Norway is the only place in Scandinavia which could host the main Winter Olympics and Paralympics Games now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 And when the IOC "speaks," it's from the more prominent, vocal members of the Executive Board. It doesn't mean that the remaining 90 voting members share their views or will vote the EB way in rounds 2 or 3. The early, so-called 'favorites' are just that -- to position them for a competition so ALL 110 or so voting members may have 2 or 3 or 4 candidates to choose from. That is what the 'early courting and begging' is all about. And in a Winter vote, it's the non-Winter nations that could make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 The entire premise of GamesBids is that the IOC acts in a semi-predictable manner when picking host cities. I think every honest analysis of IOC behaviors and trends would put Oslo as a heavy favorite. If they bid. Of course, the fun is that the IOC is only semi-predicatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 It depends. I'm starting to think that if Norwegian support falls anymore that Oslo 2022 could wind up being another Stockholm 2004. And THAT could sink that the bid. *sink the bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorwayOlympics Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Oslo 2022 has been allowed by the IOC to publish the IOC-manual (7000 pages of demands and requirements) http://www.oslo2022.oslo.kommune.no/soknad_om_statstilskudd_og_statsgaranti/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 /\/\ That's good. Overwhelm the Norwegian gov't offices with tons of paper and all the fussy demands of the IOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The entire premise of GamesBids is that the IOC acts in a semi-predictable manner when picking host cities. I think every honest analysis of IOC behaviors and trends would put Oslo as a heavy favorite. If they bid. Of course, the fun is that the IOC is only semi-predicatable. If they Bid? They have Bid. They released a Bid Logo and have a Bid team appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 If they Bid? They have Bid. They released a Bid Logo and have a Bid team appointed. I'm sure this board could get into a huge semantic argument on exactly when a city has officially "bid". At the moment, Oslo has been named an applicant city, but has not submitted the application file. You wanna call that "bidding" knock yourself out. Stockholm was also named an applicant city, but we know they won't submit the actual application. I'm not 100% sure Oslo won't join Stockholm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I got Monaco You know how to enjoy the good things in life. You’re quite a private person and it takes a while to get to know you. However, you couldn’t be closer to the people you consider friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowriver Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I think some people here dont understand that organizations operating the bid and goverment are two diffrent organs which both may have diffrent opinion and one needs to ask another for money. As news tell they actully relese the logo to boost the support for the bid to convice the goverment. http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/winter-olympics/2022/1018278-oslo-2022-launches-logo-in-aim-to-boost-norwegian-support-for-bid If bid wont get money they wont able pay for fearther bid promotion and need to withdraw. So relese of logo does not tell anything, same as Krakow ads dont tell if they gonna submit application or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowriver Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 In both cases Olympics in country it's usally not goverment idea, but NOC or some other people who whats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I thought I would bring the Oslo Ceremonies Stadium discussion over to here. I think it would be more feasible to rebuild the Ullevaal Stadium , instead of building a separate temporary stadium. If the rebuild the Ullevaal Stadium, it would provide for a permanent legacy after the Games, as well as producing a future brand new, state of the art National Stadium for Norway's Men's Football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It's not easy and cheap or rebuild stadium from 20's, 3 times reconstructed in past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's not easy and cheap or rebuild stadium from 20's, 3 times reconstructed in past. I know. I was just thinking, for legacy purposes, it would be good to rebuild a new state of the art National Stadium, for Norway. Temporary, it would be gone afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/03/03/bankruptcy-fears-hit-holmenkollen/ 2 mln USD of deficit yearly? Shocking news for me. I used to consider Holmenkollen as the winter sports temple and Norway as the best place on earth for such a venue. Is there any problem with financing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotosy Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Government MPs make OL demands March 7, 2014 Members of Parliament from both parties in government have sent a list of seven demands that they think organizers of a Winter Olympics (OL) in Oslo should make to the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The demands likely will be need to be met, in order for the government to agree to ultimately be responsible for covering the huge costs of an Oslo OL in 2022. The IOC has already sent thousands of pages of its own demands to the Oslo2022 committee, which must send its formal application to host the Winter OL by next Friday, March 14. Now the government parties, faced with strong nationwide opposition to the OL project because of its costs, have some demands of their own. Newspaper Aftenposten reported on Friday that the spokesmen on sports issues from both the government’s Conservative and Progress parties, Svein Harberg and Ib Thomsen respectively, have sent a letter to the Oslo2022 committee. In it, the two politicians wrote that “it is in Norway’s interests to contribute towards influencing the future organization of the world’s largest sports event. It is critical that democratic countries that respect human rights still want to arrange the Olympic and Paralymic games.” Then come the seven demands that appear aimed at reducing the scope of the Olympics, with an emphasis on democracy and human rights, if Norway is to take on financial responsibility for the Winter Games eight years from now: ** Apart from what they call “good Norwegian hospitality” and necessary access and security measures. the government politicians believe that the costs of IOC members’ own accommodation during the OL weeks should be covered by the IOC itself. ** The two government parties think the Oslo2022 committee must demand that limits be placed on any additional competitive events within the Olympics. Critics have claimed the Olympics have become much too big, with too many new sporting events added in recent years. The Norwegian politicians think that development should be brought under more control. ** They also want to see more use of existing sports facilities in and around Oslo, to control costs and reduce environmental impact. ** The rights of workers called in to build new OL facilities must be guaranteed, they wrote. This demand comes in the wake of criticism over how work was carried out during construction of Olympic facilities in, for example, Beijing and Sochi. ** A Norwegian application for an OL must emphasize how inclusion, equality and respect for human rights would be the foundation for how an OL would be arranged. ** The athletes should at all times be at the center of attention during the Games. ** The Oslo2022 committee should develop cooperation with plans for the Youth OL that will be hosted back in Lillehammer before a 2022 Olympics. Given the recent wave of criticism against the IOC, and the IOC’s need to find willing hosts for future Olympics, the Norwegian politicians clearly feel entitled to make demands of their own instead of just the other way around. State politicians ultimately hold the pursestrings on behalf of Norwegian taxpayers, and the entire project now hinges on whether the Norwegian government and Members of Parliament will put up the money. They must decide on that by January. Meanwhile, the application process appears likely to move forward despite strong public opposition to the project nationwide. Oslo2022 has an official budget of around NOK 35 billion (around USD 6 billion) at present, but given the track record of Olympics actually costing four times their initial budgets, at Sochi in Russia this year and also at Lillehammer in 1994, most expect that a Winter Olympics in Oslo in 2022 will cost much more. The sheer expense is what’s fueling the debate and opposition, with a majority currently calling on the politicians to reject the request for a financial guarantee, according to public opinion polls. http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/03/07/government-mps-make-ol-demands/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 "the government politicians believe that the costs of IOC members’ own accommodation during the OL weeks should be covered by the IOC itself" There goes a fat bunch of votes... Well, I find this quite funny - the Norwegian government is obviously smart enough to assess the position the IOC has manoeuvred itself in: They have noticed the literal begging from the IOC to stay in, and they know the considerable weaknesses of the other bids. So they think they are in a position of strength - this may not really be what the bid committee wants to hear from the government, but it is the government that controls the money. I know those who are in the anti-Oslo camp will rejoice, but I guess it's more a case of the IOC facing another PR disaster at least, unless they are willing to accept the Kraków solution with two countries involved to various degrees. A democratic government bullying the IOC, now there's a first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Looks like a good list to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 A democratic government bullying the IOC, now there's a first The suck up policy towards Norwegians is backstabbing the IOC sooner than I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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